Semi Final Formats

[Kingsmills]

I have posted this in the ICT Forum rather than general football as I am delighted to say that national semi finals have become of increasing direct relevance to us in the past few years and, with any luck, could well be again this season.

Whilst generally a traditionalist, I think the time has come to consider the semi finals of both the Scottish Cup and the League Cup being switched to two legged affairs. If it's good enough for the Champions League, The Copa del Rey and the English League Cup it could well be good enough for us.

I see a number of advantages; Firstly, there is fairness to the club and supporters. In the last three seasons we have been forced to play cup semi finals against clubs in their home cities. It's to our great credit that we won two out of three of these but the fans were still out of pocket, the team disadvantaged and our numbers reduced to about 3,000 albeit 3,000 who made themselves sound like three times as many.

This season already, both St Johnstone and County have been obliged to play semi final opponents at 'neutral' venues in their opponent's back yards.

I am sure that there will be revenue advantages too, grounds are likely to be full or at least fuller. I know we struggle with crowds but I have little doubt that we would fill the Main and North stands and maybe even the wee West stand for a semi final on our home turf and whoever we play is likely to cram the South Stand for such an occasion.

There would be two extra prestigious games to sell to TV and tournament sponsors and the proceeds could, as now, be pooled between all four participants and both TV and sponsors would much prefer full stadia rather than the sight of Hampden barely half full even when Celtic are involved.

The final advantage is that the National Stadium would be kept for finals which would make those occasions even more special and unique than they already are.

 

[Yngwie]

Speaking of cup formats, a couple of matters have made the news today.

1. The League Cup final will be held in November from next season.  I like the idea of this tournament being done and dusted before the proper Cup starts
2. There is talk of scrapping replays in cups. I'd be against this

Thoughts?  

Personally I like the idea of this tournament being done and dusted before the proper Cup starts.

But I think cup replays still have an awful lot of merit, as the home side has already had a clear advantage without extending that for another 30 minutes and denying the visitors any chance to then balance it out with home advantage for themselves. Plus, replays have a fair chance of being televised, bringing much needed income to clubs like ICT.

[cif73]

On 2/16/2016 at 11:25 AM, Kingsmills said:

I have posted this in the ICT Forum rather than general football as I am delighted to say that national semi finals have become of increasing direct relevance to us in the past few years and, with any luck, could well be again this season.

Whilst generally a traditionalist, I think the time has come to consider the semi finals of both the Scottish Cup and the League Cup being switched to two legged affairs. If it's good enough for the Champions League, The Copa del Rey and the English League Cup it could well be good enough for us.

I see a number of advantages; Firstly, there is fairness to the club and supporters. In the last three seasons we have been forced to play cup semi finals against clubs in their home cities. It's to our great credit that we won two out of three of these but the fans were still out of pocket, the team disadvantaged and our numbers reduced to about 3,000 albeit 3,000 who made themselves sound like three times as many.

This season already, both St Johnstone and County have been obliged to play semi final opponents at 'neutral' venues in their opponent's back yards.

I am sure that there will be revenue advantages too, grounds are likely to be full or at least fuller. I know we struggle with crowds but I have little doubt that we would fill the Main and North stands and maybe even the wee West stand for a semi final on our home turf and whoever we play is likely to cram the South Stand for such an occasion.

There would be two extra prestigious games to sell to TV and tournament sponsors and the proceeds could, as now, be pooled between all four participants and both TV and sponsors would much prefer full stadia rather than the sight of Hampden barely half full even when Celtic are involved.

The final advantage is that the National Stadium would be kept for finals which would make those occasions even more special and unique than they already are.

 

Interesting subject to ponder ... but, if a two-legged format had been in place for the cups last season, I doubt very much that we'd currently be Scottish Cup champions.

I think we can always fancy our chances against any team in a single match but to beat e.g. Celtic on aggregate over two legs would have been a tall order ... and, most likely, our involvement might have ended last season at the semi-final stage ... imho

The same could be said of Ross County and their victory over Celtic this year (although applying my logic to that specific example probably strengthens my feeling for two-leg semi-finals ... if you catch my drift! tee hee)

So, in the event of meeting a "big" club in a semi-final, I'd rather the slighter more hopeful prospect of a final rather than the possible extra money from an extra match. The perceived additional money could come with getting to the final.

 

[+HawkeyeTheGnu]

I don't like the idea of two legged Scottish Cup semi-finals, as it shifts the balance too much in favour of the bigger teams, particularly the Old Firm, as it is less likely that you will have one of those days twice. I do think the authorities could be a bit more creative over semi-final venues, but to be honest I quite enjoy a day out at Hampden for a semi-final. 

I wouldn't like to see cup replays go, as I think they add to the romance of the cup, although I can understand that they are a financial burden for some teams. Maybe the powers that be could look at how the monies are shared out to try and help?

[PerfICT]

A few interesting ideas on this thread...

IMO, there should be a distinction between the Scottish Cup and the League Cup. I'd be open to the idea of the league cup semis involving 2 legs, but not the Scottish Cup - it should remain as striaght knockout, possibly without replays.

November completion for the league cup is a good idea.

I agree that Hampden should be kept for finals only. This is probably a hangover from the times when Celtic and Rangers regularly made it to semis and theerfore only Hampden was big enough, but I think there should be some latitude for common sense decisions over semi-final venues. There is a chance, for example, that we could get through the quarters to face Ross County, Brechin, Dundee or Dumbarton - any of these games at Hampden would be laughable.....but it is the SFA!

[Caley Mad In Berks]

What was wrong with football at 3pm on a Saturday, and any replays necessary by agreement with the teams.  Far too much tinkering about often to suit TV imo.  Final at Hampden of course, but semis at nearest convenient ground large enough, which both sides are happy with.

[bdu98196]

I'm not keen on 2 leg affairs as we in Scottish football play too many games against the same teams in a season, consider playing a SPFL team 4 times in the league then another 4 in the cup - its a turn off for many. The idea of not having replays is positive - in many cases the home team especially drawn against a bigger team has that as their one chance to cause an upset, continuing that into ET an possibly pens would be great, often we see then game replayed at the bigger teams ground and the outcome is predictable, we will also no longer see teams sitting in for the last 20mins holding on for a draw and replay back at their ground - turn up, play on the day and finish the game. The idea that if we go to Celtic and can hold out for a draw, I'd rather take it to pens and see how it turns out that have to play another 90+ mins at that level or greater again.

For me the semi locations are important and should be given more focus than they are, the default of Hampden is not necessary in all cases -  for example using ICT as an example and our opponents Hibs/Hearts/Dundee/Dundee Utd/St J etc (Pittodrie), Rangers/Celtic/Motherwell etc - (Easter Road), Aberdeen (Easter Road/McDarimid Park) - almost equi-distant travel, mode chances of a full house and no longer a bias playing a SF in Glasgow against a local team - its not hard to arrange.