League cup semi finals

[MorayJaggie]

After the announcement that both semi finals will be played at Hampden on the same day Sunday 28th October with Aberdeen v Rangers a 12pm kick off it seems yet again he spfl do not care about travelling support. It reminds me of our two semi finals in Edinburgh.

[+old caley girl]

Nothing ever changes......

This time its all about the telly. Tjen there is the issue of pandering to a ceryain 2 clubs? 

[IBM]

I agree with both posts but I hope Celtic beat Hearts as they should not even be in the semi finals!

[+DoofersDad]

They are making both ties on Sunday because both of the ugly sisters are playing in the Europa league. This is just another consequence of the farcical policy that you can get knocked out of the Champions League and then be given a slot in the Europa competition. 

But if it wasn’t for a team in both ties being involved on a Thursday, when on the Saturday would the semi have been played?  There is a league program on that day so 3 pm is not an option. Whether before or after is not great for fans traveling a distance. 

Personally I’d put the Celtic game on at 5pm on the Saturday and the Dons game could have been played at 3pm on the Sunday. It is time the football powers that be stood up to the big two and considered the fans of other clubs for a change. 

[MorayJaggie]

Or they could put one on at murrayfield as they can change venue on police advice without breaching their contract. Then they won't have four sets of opposing fans using the same limited transport links in Glasgow.

[Glover]

Who are the football powers that be?  This seems to vindicate Henry Mcleish's view of a dominant SPFL and a cowed SFA.  The SFL President, when the SPL and SFL merged, called it a takeover.  This is a perfect example of how this is playing out, and why ICT also had to make such trips - supposedly the SPFL were taken aback by that furore and wouldn't make the same mistake twice.  

Same stadium, same plans, same protocols, police on shifts, same staff (on shifts) saves a shed load of costs.  It's not just even TV money now, it's pure business.  Sadly, the attachment and FOMO of supporters has been factored in to SPFL decision making that would otherwise be different.

 

[MorayJaggie]

It's not same police as they will have to have two sets of police to cover because believe it or not they are on duty 2 hours prior and two hours post match and due to numbers expected they will need to be drawn in from all over the country incurring travelling and overtime costs. The policing cost alone will be double if not treble that of a normal match. Then ambulance crews etc etc. This is the most costly option available. Due to duration of time fans are In the area the amount of fans. How the police will keep them segregated I've no idea

 

[bdu98196]

SFA bias towards west coast big 2, no shock but contractually the games need played at Hampden. The OF talk about being 'big' clubs, so if thats the case and they wish to be successful then the consequence is progress in competitions and as a result they need to have squads to accommodate. While the situation of playing Thurs then Sat isn't ideal for a club if those are the dates then that should be the case and if any club deems that unfair to comply with the fixture they can withdraw from the comp. Too often Scottish football panders to the tail wagging the dog.

Everywhere today the media is talking about this farce. There's constant criticism of Scottish football and bodies talking it down and the product quality etc. On paper this is almost the best combination of semi final teams available - possibly the 4 biggest supported clubs, 3 of last seasons top 4 and I would expect similar again by the time of the game yet instead of promoting these matches as big hitters and a real plus for Scottish game, its being mocked and slated due to incompetence and idiotic scheduling. No wonder we cant get sponsors & good TV deals - every opportunity to promote is a cluster ****.

Edited September 28, 2018 by bdu98196

[mcdonnell761]

Forgive my ignorance but why can't they postpone the semi final by a week and then move their the league games to a Tuesday later in the season?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

[Kingsmills]

Disgraceful but no surprise. Pandering to the needs of Celtic and a team who are very fortunate to have been admitted to the league system at all. Both these teams have a big enough advantage as it is with every single semi final and every final being played in their home city without making it as difficult as possible for away fans to travel for ridiculous kick off times on a Sunday.

Nothing will change until the personnel running our game are changed for some who are prepared to be less Weegiecentric. No great love for either of them but hoping for a Hearts v Aberdeen final.

[mcdonnell761]

This article from the BBC is worth a read. From what the BBC are reporting, not only did they not discuss with all 4 teams, they didn't even discuss with Scotrail about travelling fans. Aberdeen are in the same position we were in where the first train doesn't get in until 15 minutes after kick off.

[MorayJaggie]

Spfl are stating theuvare contractually obliged to play them at Hampden when Celtic or rangers are involved or they expect a crowd over 20000. But they also say they can be moved venue on police advice. They then state police Scotland at a happy to have all these fans in and around the same stadium on the Sunday But will not allow one of the Glasgow teams to play at their home ground that day as well as the other at Hampden. They say police Scotland can't handle that. Doncaster also says he discussed it with the club's and got their agreement and by the reaction of Aberdeen and hearts that is an obvious lie.

[Glover]

The SFA board and Professional Game board must have had a vote on this.  Was there a motion to seek an exemption to the (dubious) contract to have both at Hampden?  Was it voted against?  Or was the contract unchallenged?  The proper option was Murrayfield and if that wasn't even attempted or was voted down that should be clear.  The SFA v SPFL and a lack of transparency.  

[+DoofersDad]

When we had a similar situation a while back I wrote to the SFA about the situation. I said I wanted to be a responsible supporter and follow the police advice and make my way straight to Hampden after getting off the train. I informed them that the last train before kick off got in the night before kick off and I therefore expected to arrive at Hampden some time before 11pm.  Given that it seemed unreasonable to expect me to hang around outside the stadium all night I asked if I could be let in and pitch a tent on the pitch.  Funnily enough, I never got a reply!

 

 

 

[MorayJaggie]

The Scottish police federation have now said the decision is idiotic to hold both semi finals in Glasgow on that weekend and that they won't have enough mounted horse officers to police it. They also suggest moving one semi final to Edinburgh. It looks like the spfl has hashed this decision. 

[+DoofersDad]

35 minutes ago, MorayJaggie said:

The Scottish police federation have now said the decision is idiotic to hold both semi finals in Glasgow on that weekend and that they won't have enough mounted horse officers to police it. They also suggest moving one semi final to Edinburgh. It looks like the spfl has hashed this decision. 

Yes, but don't forget the Scottish Police Federation were not consulted over this.  The SPFL will have discussed this with Police Scotland.  Just as there seems to be a disconnect between the SPFL and the clubs, there is a disconnect between Police Scotland and the Police officers who will actually be tasked with policing the streets of Glasgow with 100,000 fans of 4 different clubs.  If the senior officers of Police Scotland felt there was a significant problem with the arrangements they would have vetoed them.  

[MorayJaggie]

11 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

Yes, but don't forget the Scottish Police Federation were not consulted over this.  The SPFL will have discussed this with Police Scotland.  Just as there seems to be a disconnect between the SPFL and the clubs, there is a disconnect between Police Scotland and the Police officers who will actually be tasked with policing the streets of Glasgow with 100,000 fans of 4 different clubs.  If the senior officers of Police Scotland felt there was a significant problem with the arrangements they would have vetoed them.  

I wonder if the senior officers will put on their utility belts and get their hi vis on and stand shoulder to shoulder with their colleagues on the ground I suspect not. This is another decision from Pol Scot like putting mounted officers on the streets of Inverness. They have totally underestimated the weekend as most folk will celebrate Halloween that weekend as well as it being pay weekend and the availability of fireworks for upcoming bonfire night. Are they seriously expecting officers to work 14 15 hour shifts with minimal rest periods. They only have about 10000 operational officers on the street to use but also have to police the rest of the country without compromising safety. The only way this can be achieved safely is by using the mutual aid agreement with forces in England to seconde officers in for this event as it will be graded high risk. This will then be costly to the spfl.

[MorayJaggie]

Police Scotland have now told the spfl to rethink their plans.

[CaleyCanary]

If they don't want to move one game to Murrayfield they could always play one of them on Monday evening, but that would mean having to postpone two of the Wednesday evening league fixtures. In that scenario the Tarts-Tic game would be the best option to save the late evening trip back up the road for the Aberdeen fans - of course that thought won't enter into the SPFL thinking! Moving one game to Murrayfield seems such a simple solution...

[Kingsmills]

I understand that Neil Doncaster received remuneration of £247,000 last year including a £110,000 "performance bonus".

Given is level of competence, that strikes me as about £220,000 too much.

His Highland League equivalent is paid expenses only and does a far more efficient and effective job.

[+DoofersDad]

2 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

I understand that Neil Doncaster received remuneration of £247,000 last year including a £110,000 "performance bonus".

Given is level of competence, that strikes me as about £220,000 too much.

His Highland League equivalent is paid expenses only and does a far more efficient and effective job.

Had there been any proper objective assessment of his performance he would have had £110,000 deducted from what is, in any case, a salary well in excess of what the job merits.  Why is it that the people who receive this type of bonus always seem to be the sort of people who are least deserving on them?  The very least one might expect from people being paid these huge sums is that they accept invitations from the media to justify their decisions.  Typically, none of the people involved in making the decision were "available" to be interviewed on Radio  Scotland this morning.  

[Glover]

Avoidance of good governance through mechanisms designed to prevent any meaningful oversight / transparency in order to implement and receive such ridiculous add-ons.  The SPFL international TV partner defaulted and another had to be found - hardly bonus worthy.  Anyhoo, it seems the SFA, in Neil's book, is the baddie in this debacle, according to the BBC.  They are the ones who refused to budge apparently while the SPFL and Neil had their hands tied...

[+CaleyD]

I think you may be misinterpreting the SFA's position in this....they are/were merely the intermediary between the SPFL and Hampden Park Ltd...it was Hampden Park Ltd who (allegedly) refused to budge and then changed their minds.

[Glover]

Don't the SFA have Alan McRae and Ian Maxwell on Hampden Park Ltd board as well as having share and voting rights?  I'm not certain on this by any means but SFA and HPLtd are not distinct.