Mike Smith & Flags

[caley89]

It was just over a month ago i had a meeting with Mike Smith concerning my flag. (hopefully you remember). He said that i wasn't allowed to take the pole in with the flag because somthing to do with "that's the rules". Also he said that sticks and poles of any sort must not be allowed on flags in any grounds "especially Hampden". Also "surfing flags" have been banned at grounds.

However, today at the league cup final there were thousands of people waving flags on sticks!! Also the rangers fans had numerous surfing flags flying around there end.

After my meeting with him he said he would get back in touch with me and let me know if he has resolved the situation. Needless to say he has certainly not got back in touch.

I really hope Mike Smith sees this message because i'm really quite annoyed about it all. As a fan I'm trying my best to get the poor atmosphere at TCS better, however i think MS has clearly shown he doesn't seem to care. I personally think he doesn't want the hasstle. If that's the case he shouldn't be in that job!!

[Mee]

Welcome to the "We hate Mike Smith" club  :001: I'll pop your membership card in the post  :003:

[L_G]

Can't comment on the sticks, but we have made some headway with the surfing flag.  :021:

[Scotty]

I would suggest you contact him again directly or via the supporters' trust.

I dont think he was lying to you. It has always been my understanding that flagpoles & sticks are banned but if there were loads at Hampden today then that may need clarified - I would bet that it has something to do with the thickness of the pole/stick or maybe to do with the governing body ... SFA / SFL / SPL ?

As for surfing flags, dont think they are banned yet, just frowned upon

[L_G]

I would suggest you contact him again directly or via the supporters' trust.

I dont think he was lying to you. It has always been my understanding that flagpoles & sticks are banned but if there were loads at Hampden today then that may need clarified - I would bet that it has something to do with the thickness of the pole/stick or maybe to do with the governing body ... SFA / SFL / SPL ?

As for surfing flags, dont think they are banned yet, just frowned upon

I think you are right Scotty.  As I say we have made some progress with the surfing flag and would hope to have one in place, although this would probably be next season.  I believe that this 'ban' was at the request of the police while some discussion went on regarding the pros/cons/risks involved. 

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that the 'stick' ban is an ICT ruling and not an SPL/SFA blanket ban.  I think that there were problems years ago, in the lower divisions before we had a players tunnel with people poking sticks down into the tunnel area or at least having the ability to do so if they wished, so the decision to ban them was put in place to avoid this issue.

[CaleyD]

Very few specific items are actually banned from football grounds and the rules/guidelines are very much left open to the interpretation of the match safety officer.....therein lies the problem, especially when you have a safety officer who seems **** bent on making life as difficult as possible.

[Scotty]

I think that there were problems years ago, in the lower divisions before we had a players tunnel with people poking sticks down into the tunnel area or at least having the ability to do so if they wished, so the decision to ban them was put in place to avoid this issue.

If that is the quoted reason then it is utter ***** !!! Do you know who sat there for many years through the lower divisions ? ... yes, it was ME  :003:, Big Stu, Calum, and Stu's brother Ross (although a lot of the time Blair or Willie Fisher would get his ticket as he was working away). To one side was P&B, Sian, ATT (Above the Tunnel), and a few others, to the other side Doresboy, Guzz, Uncle Albert, Kenny & Barry Wright etc ..... We might have got worked up and shouted "words of encouragement" over the tunnel to ICT players and opposition alike but I can 1000% guarantee that there was never a stick or any other object poked down in the direction of any player, nor a desire to do so.

If that is what is being said, and it is being said about seasons in the lower divisions then I would like more details as it appears to be defamatory.

[tm4tj]

:029:

I sometimes feel the urge to poke my stick into a tunnel :rolleyes02:

Each to their own I suppose.

[L_G]

I think that there were problems years ago, in the lower divisions before we had a players tunnel with people poking sticks down into the tunnel area or at least having the ability to do so if they wished, so the decision to ban them was put in place to avoid this issue.

If that is the quoted reason then it is utter ***** !!! Do you know who sat there for many years through the lower divisions ? ... yes, it was ME  :003:, Big Stu, Calum, and Stu's brother Ross (although a lot of the time Blair or Willie Fisher would get his ticket as he was working away). To one side was P&B, Sian, ATT (Above the Tunnel), and a few others, to the other side Doresboy, Guzz, Uncle Albert, Kenny & Barry Wright etc ..... We might have got worked up and shouted "words of encouragement" over the tunnel to ICT players and opposition alike but I can 1000% guarantee that there was never a stick or any other object poked down in the direction of any player, nor a desire to do so.

If that is what is being said, and it is being said about seasons in the lower divisions then I would like more details as it appears to be defamatory.

Yes Scotty I know that is where you sat and a lot of the people you mention still sit in that area.  I did say that there either was an issue or the possibility of there being an issue.  It may just have been a risk assessment.  I don't have details, but I was told that was the original reason for the ban, but with the tunnel now in place this could be reviewed.  I also have to say that this wasn't the current management who gave me this information but someone who was involved with the club when the ban was first introduced.

Caley4life has met with Mike Smith and does have a direct route to discuss this directly with him, but the Trust will happily seek clarification if required.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Has Mike Smith actually ever done anything positive or popular ?

[tm4tj]

Has he not had you removed from the stadium :023:

[Onward and Upward]

The rules regarding the banning of sticks/poles for flags are part of the Ground Regulations published by the Scottish Football Safety Officers Association, which are utilised by the SPL/SFA/SFL.  So in theory, everyone should be working to the same script.  The reality at ICT is that no one within the club is a member of the Safety Officers Association, nor do they hold a qualification to be a Safety Officer, so I would suggest speaking to :

http://www.footballsafety.com/

[maimie]

I think that there were problems years ago, in the lower divisions before we had a players tunnel with people poking sticks down into the tunnel area or at least having the ability to do so if they wished, so the decision to ban them was put in place to avoid this issue.

If that is the quoted reason then it is utter ***** !!! Do you know who sat there for many years through the lower divisions ? ... yes, it was ME  :003:, Big Stu, Calum, and Stu's brother Ross (although a lot of the time Blair or Willie Fisher would get his ticket as he was working away). To one side was P&B, Sian, ATT (Above the Tunnel), and a few others, to the other side Doresboy, Guzz, Uncle Albert, Kenny & Barry Wright etc ..... We might have got worked up and shouted "words of encouragement" over the tunnel to ICT players and opposition alike but I can 1000% guarantee that there was never a stick or any other object poked down in the direction of any player, nor a desire to do so.

If that is what is being said, and it is being said about seasons in the lower divisions then I would like more details as it appears to be defamatory.

my understanding of the reason for banning the sticks is two fold...

the stick thing came to light i think when abovethetunnel's wee boy used to waive one above the tunnel when the teams came out or we scored (remember those days...).  someone comlplained to mike smith that they couldn't see the game for the flag flying.   i suspect that the complaints about the flag then came from folk sitting in the 'dear' seats (black seats or folk eating prawn sandwiches..) and the boy was then told he couldn't fly the flag on a stick though it was ok to take it in without it.  i was told who one of the complainants was too and he occasionally gets a wee mention or 2 on this board...

when we moved into the premierleague a risk assessment was carried out by the police (apparently) regarding the ability of fans to throw things on to the pitch or at players or whateverand at the start it didn't seem too problematic.  however, when the flag thing reared it's head it was a case of banning sticks was one less risk and the least costly (in monetary terms) to the club.   i'm a bit reluctant to post here what the findings were just in case it puts ideas in folks heads but i'll pm you scotty and speak to L_G about it.  if you feel it's worth posting then feel free...  

[hislopsoffsideagain]

For goodness sake...

I was under a surfing flag just before kickoff at Boro v Liverpool in January.  It was absolutely fantastic and it looked magic on MOTD that evening.  Down south fans wave flags at games all day long.

If the team and the club don't give us any reason to enjoy ourselves, either with what's on the pitch or by distracting ourselves off it, then no wonder we moan all the time!

[Kingsmills]

It seems that Mike Smith hasn't handled this situation at all well, no surprise there ! but we need to be very careful about accusing anybody of lying.

As fa as I can see, Mr Sith is guilty of incompetence rather than dishonesty.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Has he not had you removed from the stadium :023:

:rotflmao:  :clapping03:

So its the smallest book in the world then - "My accomplishments at ICT" by Mike Smith.

[Scotty]

Ok. This thread is not serving any purpose that I can see other than lashing out at a club official because something he said about the Tulloch Caledonian Stadium was not replicated at the national stadium ... a stadium he has no control over the policies and procedures for.

If he is guilty of anything it is not of lying about the matter, but of not clarifying whose rules they were - local (ICT), national (SPL/SFL/SFA) or international (UEFA/FIFA) as it seems quite clear from both LG and Maimie's response and from the responses when the whole flagpole thing was first mentioned that there is indeed a rule in place (regardless of who's rule it is).

As Kingsmills has pointed out, some of the wording used by some posters in this thread is dangerously close to defamatory and for this reason I have decided to close it. If anyone feels the need to complain about this closure, please do so to the board moderators who can discuss it between themselves and re-open the thread if they think closure is not warranted.

[Scotty]

One final update to this thread.

I have received an email from Mike Smith as follows:

With regard to the recent comment by "Caley4life" which you have now locked, I have to say his starting point is not what we think was agreed at the meeting. 

Our Safety Officer and myself met with him on the morning of the Dundee United game following the Supporters Trust David Sutherland?s suggestion that he contacted us before he tried to bring a flag on a stick into the ground. 

We had a what we thought was a very positive meeting, we appreciated that his desire was to purely increase support for the team but explained that we currently had within the Club?s ground rules, a prohibition on flags with sticks or canes on safety grounds as they could be a hazard or used as a weapon. This was in line with other SPL clubs. 

We did make the positive proposal that if he could get a number of like minded people we would look to put them pitch side on the gravel behind/beside the home goal prior to the game and at half-time as at Aberdeen. The Club would also make provision to store them on site.

Our understanding is that Mark went away to look into this whilst we would talk to Aberdeen as to their arrangements. Also to other SPL club

During the discussion we certainly said that there was a policy at Hampden Park for Scotland games of not allowing any flags on sticks/canes into the ground and indeed our Safety Officer was with a local group who had to take the sticks out of their flags - and these were small flags.

Obviously we all saw at Hampden Park yesterday for the CIS Cup final, flags being admitted and I have been in contact with all the SPL clubs this morning asking them for a further update for their views on the current situation.

Whilst ultimately it?s the Club and Police?s decision on a risk assessment, as with all these types of issues we do take try into account what happens elsewhere.

I am more than happy for this to be posted either in my name or paraphrased by yourself. 

Regards,

Mike Smith

Regarding the Safety Association comment, Mike added this:

Our safety officer and myself are both members of the Safety Officers Association and the SO has recently completed what was the second only FSOA(S) course.