Let's all laugh at Livvy

[Caley Stan]

Call me bitter, but i never tire of laughing at the misfortunes of this serially mismanaged franchise.

This week has been especially prolific for laughter material:

Being sued for over 300 grand by Pearse Flynn.

Out of the cup to East Stirling.

Now they've sacked yet another manager - Landi Sacked

[CaleyD]

And things are so much better at ICT???

- Being pursued by Niculae for money we (allegedly) owe him.

- Barely managing to get past Arbroath and Morton before succumbing to Falkirk.

- A manager many people would take delight in seeing sacked.

I'm no fan of Livingston, but hardly think we are in any position to be casting stones about mismanagement.

[+Gringo]

Can't argue with that CD.

[absent friend]

And things are so much better at ICT???

- Being pursued by Niculae for money we (allegedly) owe him.

- Barely managing to get past Arbroath and Morton before succumbing to Falkirk.

- A manager many people would take delight in seeing sacked.

I'm no fan of Livingston, but hardly think we are in any position to be casting stones about mismanagement.

Just a wee concern - are you inferring that we will have a financial problem IF Niculae is due money?

On your point 2 - There will be more teams than us succumbing to Falkirk before this season is over IMO.

On Point 3 - There is not a team from Celtic down who do not have a manager that 'many people would take delight in seeing sacked'

Only last week it was public knowledge that creditors, including the Revenue, were chasing Livi, with a time limit being imposed and this was PRE Flynn's claim.

How can you suggest we are in this position or even close to it??

[Yngwie]

The mismanagement of Livi over the last 5 or so years is in a different league (literally!) to any criticisms that can be directed at our club.

[stevico1]

And things are so much better at ICT???

- Being pursued by Niculae for money we (allegedly) owe him.

- Barely managing to get past Arbroath and Morton before succumbing to Falkirk.

- A manager many people would take delight in seeing sacked.

I'm no fan of Livingston, but hardly think we are in any position to be casting stones about mismanagement.

Just a wee concern - are you inferring that we will have a financial problem IF Niculae is due money?

On your point 2 - There will be more teams than us succumbing to Falkirk before this season is over IMO.

On Point 3 - There is not a team from Celtic down who do not have a manager that 'many people would take delight in seeing sacked'

Only last week it was public knowledge that creditors, including the Revenue, were chasing Livi, with a time limit being imposed and this was PRE Flynn's claim.

How can you suggest we are in this position or even close to it??

I think that due to many factors including the present financial downturn, our crowds seem to be on the downturn ,along with the fact that our accounts last year were worse than previous years I dont think any club can take it that everything is rosy on the financial side although I think we are in a better position than some. For this reason I wouldnt gloat at others misfortune as you never know what is around the corner.

[Scotty]

Being sued for over 300 grand by Pearse Flynn.

Out of the cup to East Stirling.

Now they've sacked yet another manager - Landi Sacked

- Being pursued by Niculae for money we (allegedly) owe him.

- Barely managing to get past Arbroath and Morton before succumbing to Falkirk.

- A manager many people would take delight in seeing sacked.

Just a wee concern - are you inferring that we will have a financial problem IF Niculae is due money?

On your point 2 - There will be more teams than us succumbing to Falkirk before this season is over IMO.

On Point 3 - There is not a team from Celtic down who do not have a manager that 'many people would take delight in seeing sacked'

Only last week it was public knowledge that creditors, including the Revenue, were chasing Livi, with a time limit being imposed and this was PRE Flynn's claim.

How can you suggest we are in this position or even close to it??

Dont think CaleyD is saying we are in any way as bad as Livi, but the direct comparisons to very similar points in Caley Stan's post are valid IMHO.

[CaleyD]

The point I was making was that we, as well as the majority of other clubs, are far from being in the kind of position where we can gloat at the misfortune of others.

Perhaps if we owned our stadium, could pay players their full worth and have them on meaningful contracts (length wise), were getting decent crowds every week, had a manager who had us performing at our best and had a few million in the bank then we could do a bit of pointing and laughing....but we aren't.

The truth of the matter, whether people like it or not, is that we're far, far closer to the "bust" line than we are the "well off and safe" one and although the comparisons I have made might not appear "as bad" as Livingston, they are still indicators of the fact that we face many of the same issues.....and the best we can hope for is that they don't escalate to the stage where they do put is in the same situation.

[Glen Mhor]

No, we'd better not laugh at Livvy because if we did we could be laughing on the other side of faces before too long IMO.

Edited December 1, 2008 by Glen Mhor

[Scotty]

Dont think anyone in Scottish Football can afford to laugh at Livi, not even the big boys !!!

Football is a strange business. In almost any other sector of the business community, most companies (clubs) involved in an unsustainable business like this would have gone to the wall long ago !!!

On top of that, any time a football club "dies", its fans are badly affected and we all have to say "there but for the grace...." [ left out the god reference for any athiests or agnostics out there ]

[Caley Stan]

The truth of the matter, whether people like it or not, is that we're far, far closer to the "bust" line than we are the "well off and safe" one

If that?s the case then you must know something about the financial situation at the club that the rest of us don?t.

I thought we were debt free with one of the lowest wage bills in the SPL.

Haven?t ICT become an established SPL club by being a bit thrifty? Marius aside, we appear to have operated on the basis of sustainability in recent times - something that Livingston have never been able to do.

They splurged on players and managers they couldn?t afford and now they?re paying the price.

Sorry if that seems like gloating but i still haven't got over some of the old grudges.

[starchief]

I think we should laugh at Livi - they're the closest thing we ever got to a rival! Ross County? Naw, they're our little brothers. You can't dislike 'em for long - no matter how silly they can be.

And hey, we may be in the same position soon but if Aberdeen got tanked by Celtic, I'd still laugh even though it was probably going to happen to us soon as well (although I'd laugh even more if the Dons spanked the Old Filth).

[Scotty]

The truth of the matter, whether people like it or not, is that we're far, far closer to the "bust" line than we are the "well off and safe" one

If that?s the case then you must know something about the financial situation at the club that the rest of us don?t.

I thought we were debt free with one of the lowest wage bills in the SPL.

I have to agree with CaleyD again ...... If "well off" is a few million in the bank, making a profit every year, and chugging along quite nicely, with the option to enhance the stadium infrastructure or player squads without too much hassle and "Bust" is making a loss every year, deeply in debt, and struggling both on and off the park then we ARE closer to that line than we are to the well off line !

YES, we have one of the lowest wage bills in the SPL, YES we endeavour to get as close to breaking even as we can every year, and YES we are debt free. That is a HUGE plus in this day and age and a lot of credit has to go to certain people for that. however, the simple fact is that we NEED to bank on several imponderables each year to do that - cup runs, player sales, advertising, hospitality, crowd levels etc.

We all want to see ICT progress but the biggest imponderable of them all is how to do that without getting into the same sorts of difficulties as Gretna, Livi etc ........

Things are not wonderful at our club, and there are lots of different things each of us individually could cite that we would like to see done better, differently or enhanced in some way - some of us may even agree on some of these things - but unlike some clubs who are more wealthy, we dont have the same room to manoeuvre in getting these done as they do so its a case of slow progression ..... and that brings a lot of frustration.

Add some boardroom squabbles, some personal issues with club staff or officials, non-existent PR, and fan reaction to poor results (especially at home) and its a tough old time ..... but you know what .... I would rather see us struggle through the tough times and come out the other side than be in Livi's position right now and thats one reason I will not laugh at their plight.

Gawd we need a home win this weekend, and then an away win in Paisley .... once that happens we will all be happy, add some Xmas spirit and we might even smile at each other .......

[AJS]

Its ashame to see any club suffer financially...even if they are old foes.

We could easily be in there position but i think our board have possibly been slightly wiser in how they've handled the club financially.

It is strange though as Livi started there season so well but appear to have taken a massive dip in form. same for the likes of Queen of the South, they were on a roll at one point.

[Caley Stan]

Well i'm laughing even harder after a visit to to the Livilions forum. Imaginitive suggestion for a new manager include most of their former managers along with Graham Rix and Rowan Alexander.

One guy has this has signature:

"Jim Leishman (2003), Marcio Maximo Barcellos (2003), David Hay (2003?2004), Allan Preston (2004)

Richard Gough (2004?2005), Paul Lambert (2005?2006), Alec Cleland (2006), John Robertson (2006?2007)

Dave Bowman (2007), Mark Proctor (2007?2008), Roberto Landi (2008)

5 years, 11 managers.. who's next?"

Anyone else laughing yet?

[starchief]

I don't want them to ACTUALLY go out of business but hee hee...

...and wasn't Pearse Flynn a lovely man

[PullMyFinger]

It was easier to laugh when Freddy Boswell was their manager.

[StockholmSyndrome]

Call me hard-hearted, but I don't feel sorry for them. As the man said, the mills of God grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small; what goes round comes round, what's for you will no go by you etc etc. After years of mismanagement and spending money they didn't have this is only what they can expect.

[PullMyFinger]

Call me hard-hearted, but I don't feel sorry for them. As the man said, the mills of God grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly small; what goes round comes round, what's for you will no go by you etc etc. After years of mismanagement and spending money they didn't have this is only what they can expect.

We're a' Jock Tamson's bairns?

I'd be happier if Freddy Boswell was at the fore at the moment.

[Yngwie]

BBC reporting that Paul Hegarty is the latest manager to walk through the Almondvale revolving door.

And that ICT target McPake has signed a PCA with Coventry.

[Kingsmills]

Hegarty and Livingston sounds like a match made in heaven.

[Jay_7]

More financial woe for Livi? Now the players are threatening strike action ahead of the game against the Tinks.

BBC Article

[Kingsmills]

Probably the only club in Scottish football I wouldn't be sad to go under but that stems from still simmering bitterness about Ferranti Thistle being voted into the league ahead of the mighty Jags over three decades ago !

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

This could screw up Brewster's debut for Ross County!

Bring back Intelligent Finance on the shirts of Livvi players.

[RiG]

McPake & McKay have their say

Livi really are a shambles. I do like this quote though:

The club have said the chairman will be back from Italy today and he is bringing our wages with him.

Clearly they don't know how to do it all electroncially / online. These new Italian owners are a joke.