Butcher has to Go!

[alternative maryhill]

Butcher is here till the end of the season. He lost a game. Get over it.

The wisest comment posted here in a while.

Yes you are probably right and have said it myself, only thing that hacks me off is that if anyone doubts Butchers managerial abilities it is met with derision like he can do no wrong.

Steve, I don't agree. I don't think I can name a single poster on here who is a Butcher "apologist". No-one is particularly satisfied with our start to the season; it's just that some people are taking the long view and thinking it would be better for the club to allow him to see out his contract and then start afresh in summer without any additional financial upheaval for the club.

[stevico1]

Define who is in which camp then................

I was definitely wanting Brewster out at the end and in fact was very pro-active in this matter. I also was willing to give Brewster an oportunity to prove he had the credentials to do the business. I hold no malice, but results spoke for themselves and we were going under quicker than the banks. I will offer Mr Butcher the same courtesy. If at the end of the day we are getting relegated then offski. It's about expectations, if you think we should be walking this league then think on. If you think we should be building for the future then you are along the right lines. If we gain promotion then it's a bonus, if not, then life sucks.

Which camp am I then?

Probably the sensible one.

The way I feel is that rightly or wrongly the board gave Butcher a number of players on 1 year contracts on the hope we would bounce back up, if we don't we will probably lose a lot of these players so to think that the rebuilding is happening now is wrong that will take place after this season and will be a lot more difficult. Butcher was taken to keep the club up, to be fair he was very close I would imagine that his next task would be to take the club back up and I think he is struggling badly in that task, again that is not easy but he must of thought he could if not he should have stood down and let somebody that thought they could do it.

[stevico1]

Butcher is here till the end of the season. He lost a game. Get over it.

The wisest comment posted here in a while.

Yes you are probably right and have said it myself, only thing that hacks me off is that if anyone doubts Butchers managerial abilities it is met with derision like he can do no wrong.

Steve, I don't agree. I don't think I can name a single poster on here who is a Butcher "apologist". No-one is particularly satisfied with our start to the season; it's just that some people are taking the long view and thinking it would be better for the club to allow him to see out his contract and then start afresh in summer without any additional financial upheaval for the club.

Yes fully understand that, perhaps its just my reading of it as in when anyone seems to doubt Butcher they are shot down.

Edited November 28, 2009 by stevico1

[The Mantis]

Which camp am I then?

Neither: you're just camp.

[DornochCaley]

My own personal opinion is that Butcher is not a good manager. I dont think he is good enough and that has been proven by some of the loses we have had. Most the wins we have had, it wasnt tactical genius or anything like that, it was the players playing well. Though there are a few matches i can think of straight away i which Butchers poor managerial skills cost us. This is shown by the fact we have played pretty well in a few first halves this season, then it fell appart second half. He doesnt seem to have the motivational skills nor is a real tactician. Really, the only thing i have seen him do well is pick a decent starting line up from time-to-time. He even then screws up by changing things, taking off a playing which is playing well, or waiting too long to bring on subs.

[davie]

Jeez this is all so predictable. Gringo Jnr has it spot on - any team can beat any other in this league, it's tighter than a ducks. The tactics have improved markedly over the last wee while, and the reliance on the new signinigs that didnae really deliver have lessened. weve been to a final. And yer still no happy. I do however, think that's a good thing (this to the OP and Bridge & Castle) The negativity of some has got so bad from you lot that I sense a real desire from a lot of people to drive you out. You have talked yourself into this position, so you cant really complain when the majority finally tell you to go. Bye!

[tokelyisvictorious]

I know that Butcher will be here for, at the very least, the next few months. No changing that.

The thing that grinds my gears about Butcher is his PR stunts. How many times is Butcher going to need to 'tell the players a few facts'. Why did Hayes play from the bench against Airdrie when the previous week, Butcher had said that he was the only player to come out with pass marks? Apart from that, there are glimpses of a decent team there, perhaps with a bit of consistency we can come good.

[stevico1]

Jeez this is all so predictable. Gringo Jnr has it spot on - any team can beat any other in this league, it's tighter than a ducks. The tactics have improved markedly over the last wee while,

Davie sorry really don't mean to be negative but tactics are for 90 mins not 45mins and we have got it wrong over 90 minutes recently

[tm4tj]

All said and done, at this moment I am still a believer..................

And I agree with juniors post, lets all get a grip and taste reality.

[WYNESS101]

I'm not a big fan of butchers but i think hes more talk than action when it comes to football

[thejailender]

Just so that RiG doesn't think my fasination for Caley has waned recently I thought I would check through your results recently.

I was actually quite surprised to see that with the exception of your result over County in the ALBA Cup semi-final Caley have failed to beat a any team that are currently higher than 6th in the First Division.

All the wins you have got have been against lower league teams in the cups (exception being the one mentioned above).

As for league wins, these have all come against the team currently in the bottom half of the league. Morton, Ayr, Airdrie, Raith and Dunfermline.

As for teams int he top half, I think I'm right in saying the only point picked up was the one against Dundee. You've lost all other games against the top four.

I think only Ayr and Airdrie are the other two teams in the league that haven't beat a team from the current top half teams.

[gordyfromsneck]

Just so that RiG doesn't think my fasination for Caley has waned recently I thought I would check through your results recently.

I was actually quite surprised to see that with the exception of your result over County in the ALBA Cup semi-final Caley have failed to beat a any team that are currently higher than 6th in the First Division.

All the wins you have got have been against lower league teams in the cups (exception being the one mentioned above).

As for league wins, these have all come against the team currently in the bottom half of the league. Morton, Ayr, Airdrie, Raith and Dunfermline.

As for teams int he top half, I think I'm right in saying the only point picked up was the one against Dundee. You've lost all other games against the top four.

I think only Ayr and Airdrie are the other two teams in the league that haven't beat a team from the current top half teams.

You aren't going to win the league. You do know that, don't you?

[ICTFCkev]

Half expected to see this when I came on tonight..

Some people need to have a word with themselves.

[dingwallcof]

You aren't going to win the league. You do know that, don't you?

Anyone of 7 or 8 teams could win it, it could even be you guys if you hit a bit of form, can't see it happen with Butcher in charge. Don't listen to his spin though, doesn't matter how experienced a football PR man he is, I've said it before on here, Alex Smith talked his way through 2 years with us breathing life into old Dudee Utd Rejects. Butcher is doing the same with you, but I don't know where he gets his rejects from as he struggles to get decent contacts within the game.

[tm4tj]

therin lyes,....or lies the problem.

Nonetheless, a good observation, cheers.

[Bronson]

In recent seasons failing to beat the teams around us has always been our failure. Your info really doesn't surpise me jailender. This also confirms why i'm so worried about the upcoming 5 games.

[stevico1]

In recent seasons failing to beat the teams around us has always been our failure. Your info really doesn't surpise me jailender.

This also confirms why i'm so worried about the upcoming 5 games.

Bronson you sound worried , stay calm !!

[StockholmSyndrome]

It concerns me that we seem to be unable to string two decent halves together, let alone two decent games. It seems to me to be a combination of poor managerial decisions and the players just bottling it for no good reason. However, the malaise at the club goes deeper than just the players and management. If we're going to look at replacing the management team (again), we also need to look at replacing those running the club, as they're the ones who've allowed the debacle of the past 18 months to happen.

[stevico1]

It concerns me that we seem to be unable to string two decent halves together, let alone two decent games. It seems to me to be a combination of poor managerial decisions and the players just bottling it for no good reason. However, the malaise at the club goes deeper than just the players and management. If we're going to look at replacing the management team (again), we also need to look at replacing those running the club, as they're the ones who've allowed the debacle of the past 18 months to happen.

Excuse me but is this not when we need a strong manager that is proud of managing his team and will stick up for them and is not just an ex rangers captain, just a question .

[StockholmSyndrome]

Excuse me but is this not when we need a strong manager that is proud of managing his team and will stick up for them and is not just an ex rangers captain, just a question .

*Shrug*

I didn't say that we don't. My point is that our problems are not just at management level, they're also at organisational level and the people who are supposedly running the club should at the very least take a long hard look at themselves.

[Renegade]

When Brewster was sacked, I for one was quite keen on seeing Butcher come here. To be honest, I admit I was rather naive. His record on the whole, is to put it bluntly, rather hopeless. Besides Motherwell (where, in his first season in charge he finished botton [only saved by Brockville]), he's been sacked from every club he's ever managed. He's had five managerial jobs before this one, and he's been sacked by four (six if you count his recent Scotland sacking). To me that paints a picture of a poor manager (how someone can actually say he's a "good" manager is very debatable and I sure would like to hear their evidence in saying so) and I also get the impression of him being someone who gets a manager's job, only because of the fact that he was such a big name in the footballing world. After all, how many Scottish First Division managers have a feud with Diego Maradona?!

Tactically though, he seems to be rather inept. This can be seen in the way that he fails to combat the changes in other teams tactics, going into important games such as Falkirk last season, fielding a rather bizarre team selection, the freezing out of certain experienced players like Roy McBain, and the way that he seems to compelled (bar the recent dropping of Eagle) always to include his own signings (see the constant inclusion of the poor Daniel Stratford). I've also heard a number of allegations from both here and other places, that he does have a rather arrogant and nasty element to him. I also used to find it rather laughable when he's talking about the likes of Barcelona and Manchester United and saying what they should do, when he doesn't even get his own team to do hat!

This post is not a call for his head. I understand and somewhat agree with the aforementioned attitude that it seems that when you come on here after a win it's all "Butcher is genius", and after a defeat it's all this "Butcher must go!" stuff. IMO he is not a good manager, but I reckon he'll either go around Christmastime, or he'll see out the season. Again I'm not calling for his sacking, but there sure won't be any tears from me, should I wake up tomorrow and hear he's walked out the door.

[dead_ball_specialist]

The fact that you want Ian McCall in as ICT manager shows how much of a clue you have. You have the right avatar i.e. a comedian. :(

[stevico1]

When Brewster was sacked, I for one was quite keen on seeing Butcher come here. To be honest, I admit I was rather naive. His record on the whole, is to put it bluntly, rather hopeless. Besides Motherwell (where, in his first season in charge he finished botton [only saved by Brockville]), he's been sacked from every club he's ever managed. He's had five managerial jobs before this one, and he's been sacked by four (six if you count his recent Scotland sacking). To me that paints a picture of a poor manager (how someone can actually say he's a "good" manager is very debatable and I sure would like to hear their evidence in saying so) and I also get the impression of him being someone who gets a manager's job, only because of the fact that he was such a big name in the footballing world. After all, how many Scottish First Division managers have a feud with Diego Maradona?!

Tactically though, he seems to be rather inept. This can be seen in the way that he fails to combat the changes in other teams tactics, going into important games such as Falkirk last season, fielding a rather bizarre team selection, the freezing out of certain experienced players like Roy McBain, and the way that he seems to compelled (bar the recent dropping of Eagle) always to include his own signings (see the constant inclusion of the poor Daniel Stratford). I've also heard a number of allegations from both here and other places, that he does have a rather arrogant and nasty element to him. I also used to find it rather laughable when he's talking about the likes of Barcelona and Manchester United and saying what they should do, when he doesn't even get his own team to do hat!

This post is not a call for his head. I understand and somewhat agree with the aforementioned attitude that it seems that when you come on here after a win it's all "Butcher is genius", and after a defeat it's all this "Butcher must go!" stuff. IMO he is not a good manager, but I reckon he'll either go around Christmastime, or he'll see out the season. Again I'm not calling for his sacking, but there sure won't be any tears from me, should I wake up tomorrow and hear he's walked out the door.

Good post , and as one of those that tend to think he is perhaps not the best manager and have stated why I think he is lacking as a manager would be interested to hear from those that think he has done a good job (not he needs time, is on a tight budget, etc ) but what he has done to convince them he can turn things around

[thejailender]

You aren't going to win the league. You do know that, don't you?

I don't know it.. As well as anyone else in the top six of the league don't know it either.

However I have never thought that we would, and never said that we would...... Unlike a few on here !

The one thing about the first division is that just about every team is capable of beating any other team. Inconsistancy is a problem that can have an effect on all teams, and generally does. Any team that can string 5 or 6 wins together will be up near the top of the league, same as any team that fails to win in 5 or six games will fall right down to near the bottom.

The legaue could quite easily be won by whichever team is on form for the last few games of the season, and those in the relegation zone could be those going through a troubled spell.

It's been that way for years in the first division, and this season is no different.

[caleyrule]

I personally feel its time for Butcher to go, I know i will get slated for this but hey ho

Were 5 points behind with every team apart from Partick have a game in hand, so you could say were effectively 8 points behind and with our next game v QOS we could be 11 points behind, now i know this is all ifs and but it is very possible

Now if were 11 points behind any team i way effectivaly say thats our chances of promotion over, and yes one team will always fade off but the problem is that it is so tight at the top and when everyone plays there games in hand 2/3 teams could have started to pull away from the rest of the pack, this means that we know effectively need 3 teams to start dropping many points and quickly PLUS we need to start winning and looking at our next 5 games cant see us getting major points from any of them

Effectively by the derby on the 2nd of january our season could be effectively our just in time for players to sign pre-contracts with other teams

Sorry guys but in my personal opinon butcher HAS TO GO before its too late