What's our worth?

[Joonya]

after reading reports these last few weeks of some of our squad being linked to others, I was wondering how much would be realistic figures to allow players to part.

For instance, the two James' of Hamilton were valued at over ?1m EACH. Imrie has been their best player since his arrival, as the other thread about him suggests, but would they also value Imrie in the same 7-figure category now?

We've seen rankin off to Hibs, Cowie off to Watford, Black off to Hearts, Imrie off to Hamilton, and even goalies Brown and Fraser off to Celtic and Motherwell respectively, but I dont think we got even close to a good deal for them! the afforementioned clubs have grabbed a bargain from free or reduced fees (Fraser the exception )

So... to the original point... Would we be un-realistic to be looking at, for example:

Rooney, Foran, Hayes - 750k+

Esson - 500k+

Rossco, Odiambo, Cox - 100k - 250k

discuss....

[Kingsmills]

You've got to remember that Scottish football is in a very poor financial state and that clubs have got used to picking up players at or close to the end of their contracts for little or nothing.

Of our current squad I would say that only Rooney and Hayes have any significant transfer worth.

[caley100]

I think Foran was Aberdeen's first target, but they dont have that kind of money to spend.

[Harry Chibber]

depends entirely on how hyped a player is and how strong the board are when negotiating a fee.

Problem with ICT at the moment is the longest contract offered to anyone is 2 years and unless sold now the value of that player is almost halfed by the end of next season and clubs around Scotland would prefer to wait. For example, Hayes, our prized asset at the moment, if he has the sort of season we all hope he is cabale of (and what his potential suggests) then the club can be blackmailed into selling him then at a minimal fee or losing him for nothing the year after.

Hayes if sold now should be worth at least ?400k but we'd settle for 150k and probably will sell next season for ?100k

OQ,

If we were to sell our whole squad now we'd get the equivelant of ?1 for every hit the REAL Leigh Griffith's blogs had

[Joonya]

I fully understand that Scottish Football is looked upon as a poorer league where the financial state of the game is predominently at the forefront, but thats really only the fault of the individual teams themselves. Isn't it?

Like I mentioned originally, we've lost players in the last decade that were worth way more than what we got for them. If Wigan sent a scout up to Somerset Park, they'd be bidding 500k to 1m for our irish trio without doubt, but why are we selling ourselves short by taking the first offer on the table.

In the paper today, DoF Grassa said it'd take obscene money to make us part with our assets. Define obscene...

highland league obscene - i.e. 5-figure maximum or Top Flight Obscene i.e mid-6-figure sum

[CaleyStag]

I fully understand that Scottish Football is looked upon as a poorer league where the financial state of the game is predominently at the forefront, but thats really only the fault of the individual teams themselves. Isn't it?

Like I mentioned originally, we've lost players in the last decade that were worth way more than what we got for them. If Wigan sent a scout up to Somerset Park, they'd be bidding 500k to 1m for our irish trio without doubt, but why are we selling ourselves short by taking the first offer on the table.

In the paper today, DoF Grassa said it'd take obscene money to make us part with our assets. Define obscene...

highland league obscene - i.e. 5-figure maximum or Top Flight Obscene i.e mid-6-figure sum

Exactly. ?3m is obscene. ?90,000 - ?300,000 is worse than peanuts. If Rooney has another 20+ goals season next season he should be worth at least ?1m to a top end Championship/lower end Prem team. Likewise Hayes and Foran if they carry on this season's form and better it next season.

[SanMiguel]

1 Million for all 3 of the trio in a full swoop? Yes? If its a million each then you have been on the crack pipe!

[Joonya]

I, personally, would think that would be the way we'd currently define 'Obscene', SanMiguel. But, consider this...

For instance, the two James' of Hamilton were valued at over ?1m EACH. Imrie has been their best player since his arrival, as the other thread about him suggests, but would they also value Imrie in the same 7-figure category now?

... Are Hayes, Rooney and/or Foran better than Dougie Imrie - a player who has outplayed Hamiltons ?1m rated 'stars' since he joined.

I would say that they all most certainly are, so why shouldnt we be considering at least 500k each minimum.

Did Robert Snodgrass not go to Leeds United for a large sum of money from Livingston? A player who, I would consider, was not really as close to the quality as our irish contingent.

[cal234ey]

I can see your point but when you consider what we sold Cowie for then you would not expect much more than that for our best players. Also Foran would not be worth as much as Rooney & Hayes as they are a lot younger.

[The Mantis]

At 29 Foran is a known quantity. He's already been around a load of clubs so his market value is pretty steady. The young players could still go either way- take Barry Robson for example, released by Rangers, farmed out to Forfar by us, then ends up playing Champions League. Whereas Ian Vigurs is a bright young talent but goes to Culbokie Village Cabbage Patch FC.

[gordyfromsneck]

Andy Warhol stated that a work of art is worth as much as anyone will pay for it. He then went on to prove the point by selling a painting of soup tin for $Xm. We have no "soup tins" in our side but a few talented footballers. However, it is a buyers rather than sellers market down here. The big clubs know that ?100k is a lot of money for us, and a night out for a Rangers continental import. Trying to set a monetary value on any player is silly, until you know who all wants to buy.

[Scotty]

Andy Warhol stated that a work of art is worth as much as anyone will pay for it.

And how right he was.

right now our star assets may be worth mi??ions in our eyes, but we are not the potential buyers .....

There is not a huge amount of money around in Scottish football right now and most clubs that might be interested in the likes of Hayes, Rooney or Foran would be looking at each as a 'gamble' who they will pay less for in the same way we should have looked at Mr Barrowman when we got him from a lower league team !!! 29 goals in D2 did not translate into goals for ICT and our fingers got severely burned. A buying team will not know whether they are getting an 'Imrie', 'Cowie' or 'Rankin' who can perform at a higher level or whether they are getting a 'Barrowman' or 'McAllister' who need to drop down a level or two to reach that performance so the bid would reflect that. It is compounded by the fact - as mentioned above - that we seem to like our 2 year deals which realistically speaking - with Bosman - translate into 1 or 1 and a bit year deals before the player attracts interest as a possible 'free'.

[CaleyD]

It's all a bit of a lottery. A player who we may realistically let go for ?100k could easily end up going for many times that figure if he attracts interest from more than one club with a bit of cash to splash.....or they could end up seeing out their contract and going for free.

Deals like those mentioned above for players from Hamilton and Livi are the exception and happen once in a blue moon for these clubs. Our day will come when we secure a nice large sum for a young talent....but I wouldn't try predicting when and/or who that would be. It could be someone like Hayes or Rooney and it could just as easily be a player years down the line.....who knows???

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

after reading reports these last few weeks of some of our squad being linked to others, I was wondering how much would be realistic figures to allow players to part.

For instance, the two James' of Hamilton were valued at over ?1m EACH. Imrie has been their best player since his arrival, as the other thread about him suggests, but would they also value Imrie in the same 7-figure category now?

We've seen rankin off to Hibs, Cowie off to Watford, Black off to Hearts, Imrie off to Hamilton, and even goalies Brown and Fraser off to Celtic and Motherwell respectively, but I dont think we got even close to a good deal for them! the afforementioned clubs have grabbed a bargain from free or reduced fees (Fraser the exception :P )

So... to the original point... Would we be un-realistic to be looking at, for example:

Rooney, Foran, Hayes - 750k+ :D :D

Esson - 500k+ :( :015:

Rossco, Odiambo, Cox - 100k - 250k

discuss....

Nurse ..........

[Kirishima]

Agreed. The major factor driving up a potential fee is the lilelihood of the players club saying no. And to some extent the player. Still, that threory kinda goes out the window with Hamilton. I guess if a scout is really really excited by a young player, and tells a manager he is a "must" and other clubs are chasing then the fee might rise dramatically, but Cowie, Rankin, Imrie were never regarded as such. Hayes, on the other hand...

[Scotty]

Our day will come when we secure a nice large sum for a young talent....but I wouldn't try predicting when and/or who that would be. It could be someone like Hayes or Rooney and it could just as easily be a player years down the line.....who knows???

It is encouraging though that with TB at the helm we may see it sooner rather than later. Maybe with Hayes, maybe Rooney ... or maybe someone we dont know about yet ....

Whats the chances of a result like he had at Motherwell? Faced with financial ruin, he was forced to turn to young talent and between his recognition of that talent and John Boyle's wiping out of his personal debt from the club it basically brought Motherwell back from the brink ..... Stephen Pearson sold to Celtic for ?350,000 & James McFadden to Everton for ?1,250,000

[Joonya]

Agreed. The major factor driving up a potential fee is the lilelihood of the players club saying no. And to some extent the player. Still, that threory kinda goes out the window with Hamilton. I guess if a scout is really really excited by a young player, and tells a manager he is a "must" and other clubs are chasing then the fee might rise dramatically, but Cowie, Rankin, Imrie were never regarded as such. Hayes, on the other hand...

I disagree with the comment you make regarding interest in the likes of Cowie and Rankin!

there were rumours that not only watford, but also leeds united and rangers were interested in him. all three are big clubs who could well have afforded an extra zero if our own board pushed for it. rankin also was linked to Hearts and Celtic was he not? - he also had Manchester United on his CV which must prove some worth? (Then again, he also had RC, so 'null and void' springs to mind)

On the subject of Hayes, i'd say 500k would not be un-realistic to seek should Doncaster and the other unnamed clubs really want his services. We'd no doubt sell ourselves short by letting him go for a tenth of that!!! I'm so much happier he extended his contract though!

[TSTtiger]

Had this been even 3 or 4 years ago we'd likely have lost most of our best players to an spl team by now for buttons but with the way scottish football is financially we've kept them. Our best chance of a good payout when the time comes will be from an english club and i'm sure we could soon be receiving large offers for the likes of rooney or hayes if they keep progressing as they are.

[Alex MacLeod]

Foran is heading into his 30's so his value will start to drop. Hayes and Rooney, at the moment, do not have a value. Until they prove themselves at top levels then no team will pay over the nominal 50k. If they perform for us in the SPL as they have this season then I can see G juniors valuations as being realistic

[Doofer]

Foran is heading into his 30's so his value will start to drop. Hayes and Rooney, at the moment, do not have a value. Until they prove themselves at top levels then no team will pay over the nominal 50k. If they perform for us in the SPL as they have this season then I can see G juniors valuations as being realistic

What a load of tosh!!!! Do you really think that rooney, hayes, foran etc are worth 50k at the moment? Livi have sold one of there players to middlesborgh for around the 200k mark. So how can a 3rd div player be worth 4 times that of a 1st div player? What a joke

[Alex MacLeod]

Foran is heading into his 30's so his value will start to drop. Hayes and Rooney, at the moment, do not have a value. Until they prove themselves at top levels then no team will pay over the nominal 50k. If they perform for us in the SPL as they have this season then I can see G juniors valuations as being realistic

What a load of tosh!!!! Do you really think that rooney, hayes, foran etc are worth 50k at the moment? Livi have sold one of there players to middlesborgh for around the 200k mark. So how can a 3rd div player be worth 4 times that of a 1st div player? What a joke

I didn't say I thought they were worth 50k. I used that as the nominal figure most clubs tend to pay for unproven players. I do, however, accept there are exceptions to this. Andy Halliday being one. The hard fact is that no player is worth anything unless someone wants to pay something.

[DornochCaley]

I noticed Samaras, who is an experianced (Though not that great) International is being linked with a 2 million pound move to Palermo. Hes not the best, but if he is worth 2 million (Which even that is too much for him) i think we will only get about 500k at the most for our top players, at the very most.

Edited May 13, 2010 by DornochCaley

[Hearach]

Priceless - we are priceless. For everything else there is mastercard.

[SanMiguel]

In forans career he as racked up 320,000 in transfer fees. Aproaching thirty tell me how he can be worth 750k plus.

answers on a postcard please!

[jaggie1994]

Players are only worth what somebody is willing to pay for them