ICT -V- St Mirren : Matchday Thread

[Govan Jaggie]

Woeful, pathetic and inept. Was Brewster back in the dug out? For ICT to perform like that against St Mirren is shocking. Couldn't pass, couldn't tackle and couldn't shoot. So many players were off the mark and so many seemed to be knackered. Sutherland and Cox were fecked 15-20 mins into the second half but left on the pitch. Foran seems a different player since getting the armband. More interested in shouting at his own team than actually performing on the pitch. That is a massive 3 points lost and makes the last few games feel like a waste. Four games without a win is how I shall have to look at it. Not good enough, needs sorted on Wednesday urgently!

[caley100]

Really gutted with that performance, we should expect a lot lot more than that rubbish, if we get beat fair enough, but getting beat as we did yesterday was unforgivable.

The team was wrong, Shane out wide?? he tried his best but its not his position for sure, Cox always ends up on the wrong side of opposition player and he turns like a double decker bus, Team should have been 4411 not 451 Odi sould have played in the hole just back from Rooney, with Ross ( when is he going to score a goal?) on the right.

We just could not create anything after we scored, and the shots we made ended up at the back of section G.

It was so obvious that the set up was not getting anywhere,so why did Butch not change it earlier..even half time! giving Odi 9 mins and Blums 2 was just a waste - complete waste.

Positives... Esson was brill, his save from the deflection was top drawer, Shinnie did ok, I would like to see Duff back in the middle with Russell with a new right back taking his place there.

Hope the feck we turn up for the Killie game or it could be a humping.

[Johnboy]

I must admit for any neutrals it would have been a decent game to watch.

BBC Highlights

[tm4tj]

Exceptionally disappointing scoreline.

Lets face it, we have been riding our luck for a while now. That was a shambles. While Terry Butcher has been magnificent for this club so far, that was one of his poorest days yet. Wrong players in wrong positions and subs not being made when we were dying on our feet. A blind man could see that a number of our players were just going through the motions. Where were the cavalry, too little too late. What has Sanchez done to upset the big man? He has plenty skill but can't get a game. We need to freshen up for the Killie game, if not it will be more of the same drivel. Rooney can't buy a goal just now, when we need someone to finish off the build up. That's none in four games, not going anywhere with that strike rate. Our midfield were terrible yesterday, no playmaker, just guys watching the ball pass them by.

Well done Esson, at least you showed some class.

Lot's of unhappy bunnies yesterday.

Well done to St Mirren for reminding us that we are just mediocre.

[TopSix]

I'd like to see McBain start against Killie.

[Scotty]

This isnt just a TB thing ..... its a malaise that has blighted us since the early days ....

I have never had a worry when we are playing the OF or other teams we might have regarded as 'big' at the time. The motivation seems to take care of itself. Its when we are playing teams that we might just get complacent about that I worry.

I have seen it happen all the way through the divisions, not just in the SPL. We get complacent, we think we just have to turn up and win and we come away with what we deserved .... usually nothing !

Seems we did it again yesterday ...... so lets get our feet on the ground again, draw a line under this small blip and get back to winning ways in midweek ......

[tm4tj]

But scotty, the annoyance for a lot of fans yesterday is that it was in Butchers hands to alter things, but we went inside the last 10 minutes before a change was made. That was not good management and he should shoulder the blame for that part of the demise.

[Renegade]

And so much for Butcher "unleashing" Odhiambo for the game. He came on with barely any time left and did nothing at all. And bringing on Blumenshtein - what was all that about? Seconds left to play for a player we haven't seen for months and so far has had little to any time to impress and even when he does get a game hasn't exactly set the world alight. I think Butcher's been reading from the Craig Brewster book of football management again.

[Scotty]

But scotty, the annoyance for a lot of fans yesterday is that it was in Butchers hands to alter things, but we went inside the last 10 minutes before a change was made. That was not good management and he should shoulder the blame for that part of the demise.

Yes, I agree, the manager should shoulder some blame when things go wrong, or the game plan doesnt work, and TB must take his fair share of that for yesterday, but last week's saint seems to be this week's sinner and the truth of the matter is that no matter how many alterations he can make or tweaks he can suggest, the one thing he cannot do is make players play well if they are having an off day ....

And bringing on Blumenshtein - what was all that about? Seconds left to play for a player we haven't seen for months and so far has had little to any time to impress and even when he does get a game hasn't exactly set the world alight.

Whilst all that is true, I would suggest you forgot the bit about how we (and the opposition) know virtually nothing of the player either having not seen him for months ...... Perhaps Butcher saw something in training that we do not hve the opportunity to see and thought he could do something in the final few moments.

FFS , we are not world beaters, and we will not win every game, and we will even lose some games in an awful manner where it appeared we didnt perform very well or in some eyes even try (like yesterday) ... but the one thing that gets to me more and more these days is our fans .... Last week TB/MM were saints, lauded by everyone and one shake short of a feckin knighthood, this week they are a stain on the carpet or something on the bottom of someone's shoes ...... such mood swings really should be investigated by someone with the qualificatons of IHE !!!

[Renegade]

And bringing on Blumenshtein - what was all that about? Seconds left to play for a player we haven't seen for months and so far has had little to any time to impress and even when he does get a game hasn't exactly set the world alight.

Whilst all that is true, I would suggest you forgot the bit about how we (and the opposition) know virtually nothing of the player either having not seen him for months ...... Perhaps Butcher saw something in training that we do not hve the opportunity to see and thought he could do something in the final few moments.

Not really, if Butcher had indeed seen something then he would've put him on far far earlier than the 89th minute, or started him in the first place. And anyway, with the way the game had gone, Butcher could've thrown Lionel Messi at that point and it wouldn't have made any difference. Had he put Gil and Odhiambo on at about the hour mark, then that would have made sense and possibly changed the game, but by the 80th it was essentially lost.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Renegade

[CaleyD]

Had a feeling we'd get this kind of reaction the first time we suffered a hiccup.

Some people seem to have slid into the mindset that Butcher and the Players are infallible. Perhaps not surprising given how well things have gone over the last 12 months, but one poor game hardly signals any impending doom. Yeah, mistakes were made, but when things have been going so well it must be hard to recognise or accept that we're in need of some changes...if indeed we are.

I don't think yesterdays game was nearly as bad as some are making out and as I have said already, it looked to me like it was largely down to tired legs....or the fact that, having had more rest of late, the other team simply had a bit more in the tank than we did. Most of our squad haven't had a rest since day one, and they've been out there every week giving their all. I, for one, am not surprised if a few of them are in need of a little R'n'R.

People need to take a step back and realise that the great run we were on was always going to suffer a bit of turbulence at some point. The fact we sustained it for as long as we did without a "major" upset is a miracle in itself. Let's not fall into the trap of thinking we are better than any team, or that any game should bring us guaranteed points as that would be arrogance personified.

Get the frustration/disappointment out of the system by all means, but no need for knee-jerk reactions and calling for this, that or the next player to be dropped or hung out as the fall guy. As for Butcher, this is the guy who orchestrated our immediate return to the SPL, who has taken us 12+ months unbeaten on the road in any league encounter and currently has us sitting in the upper half of the premier league, well ahead of teams with bigger budgets and larger resources....I think we can forgive him the odd mistake.

[Johnboy]

FFS , we are not world beaters, and we will not win every game, and we will even lose some games in an awful manner where it appeared we didnt perform very well or in some eyes even try (like yesterday) ... but the one thing that gets to me more and more these days is our fans .... Last week TB/MM were saints, lauded by everyone and one shake short of a feckin knighthood, this week they are a stain on the carpet or something on the bottom of someone's shoes ...... such mood swings really should be investigated by someone with the qualificatons of IHE !!!

I didn't think TB and MM were saints last week - I'm still trying to work out how it took them 70 minutes to realise that all was not well with Hayes, who contributed virtually nothing to the team effort.

Having said that, it was a terrific achievement to take a point from Tynecastle with virtually 10 men for the majority of the game. Maybe that's why they looked knackered yesterday!

[tm4tj]

I don't for a minute believe that any of them were tired, that's what they do for a living. I think what Butcher has achieved here is fantastic. But that does not get away from the fact that this was avoidable and nothing was done about it. Of course fans are going to be scunnered by it. Twnety minutes to go, we are searching for a breakthrough and we persevere with the same drivel that being dished out earlier. No subs until too late, chance lost if you ask me. That is where the tactics should have won us this game, but we let it drift away. Frustrating really, not knee jerk, just so avoidable.

[12th Man]

I wouldnt blame tiredness either, when the team are winning, games cant come quick enough, not playing DDU was deemed a disappointment and not a blessing,maybe arrogance is creeping in that we will win the game as its only St Mirren. I would say that things didnt go quite right for too many players too frequently than normal and we didnt get away with it this time,

We also had enough proven players on the pitch to rest Hayes and still win the game, it just didnt quite work out for us on the day.

At least we only have to wait till Wednesday for another chance of 3 points

[ilpadrino]

And bringing on Blumenshtein - what was all that about?

Did any squad members have family sitting in the stand yesterday?

[ilpadrino]

I didn't think TB and MM were saints last week - I'm still trying to work out how it took them 70 minutes to realise that all was not well with Hayes, who contributed virtually nothing to the team effort.

I too am still trying to work out how it took them 70 minutes to realise that Jonny was going to crock himself in training the following week.

[Scarlet Pimple]

If we have to rely on Jonny being on the pitch to stave off defeat let alone win or draw then we are VERY vulnerable.If legs are tired and things are not going at all according to plan it seems like common sense to make changes earlier than later. And taking St Mirren lightly may also have been a factor. Interesting that Dargo was well up for it and still has the right stuff in his reservoir .

Sigh! Let's move on, though, and hopefully learn from this experience.

And, Terry, order the lads to be in bed by 9p.m. tonight and tomorrow night so that tiredness can't be used as an excuse for another loss. When you are fit then you are fit and you don't lose it in a week unless late nights or too much plum pud and drinkies are the real reason for sluggishness. ICT are definitely not out of the woods yet--look at the table. They have to be on form, sharp and ready to play against Killie.... or else.

I see Dwayne De Rosario of Toronto F.C. may be about to have a trial at Celtic. I recommended that the Board take a very good look at this fella about 2.1/2 years ago but felt at that time that it would not happen..... more's the pity.

Haven't seen De Rosario lately but in these days he was a constant mover and shaker and scored his share of goals.--a really inspiring player who was all over the park. Good engine on this guy.

[Ronaldo]

As TMFTJ says, wonder why Sanchez can't get a game, thought we might have seen him on Sunday at some point.

[CaleyD]

Scarlet, tiredness is not being used as an excuse by Terry or the Players. I just felt that it was perhaps a factor...not so much in that our guys couldn't last a full 90 minutes, but in the fact that as St Mirren have had a bit more down time then they simply had more in the tank than us and could keep the tempo going longer. It would certainly explain our starting well in both halves and then fading towards the end.

In fact, I've not seen any excuses from anyone at the club, quite the opposite. Nobody is looking to hide behind excuses and/or pass the buck, which can only be a good thing as it means lessons will be learned and endeavour will be made to prevent a repeat.

Manny, I wasn't having a go at those who were/are criticising the performance as I would agree that there were things which were avoidable and steps that could have been take to at least try and change the flow of the game in the second half.

What gets on my goat is those...with the benefit of hindsight...who are suggesting we should have been out there with a totally different line up, or who are suggesting players should be dropped or that players on the bench are suddenly the answer to all our problems and would have somehow managed to win the game for us single handedly and those who are now suggesting wholesale changes for the match tomorrow night. Had Butcher made the changes some are suggesting should have happened for the St Mirren game and the result had been he same, then these people would be on here tearing him a new one for messing with something that wasn't broken.

[caley100]

I'm not good enough to be a club manager, i can only commect on what i see as a fan/supporter.

And what i saw on saturday was a team setup that was not working, we were kind of fortunate for our goal, then we had a breakdown of some kind, Butcher/Malpas must have seen that what was on the pitch was not going to do anything, so why leave it so long to alter our tactics/team?

[MabawswaRichie]

T'was a bad day at the office. St Mirren played better than us on the day and won the game. You draw a line under it and move on to tonights game.