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Satan

The 'John Hughes broke my club' thread

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A topic that has been done to death and I have been as guilty as most.. We are where we are, no matter who's fault it is we are here.

How we got into this state is no longer important. What is important is where and how we go from here and how things can improve.

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"There are a minority of our fans who think John Hughes was a failure at our club. As far as I am concerned there should be a statue of the man outside our stadium" Charlie Christie Sportsound 7th February 2019.

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It was the perfect storm, a manager with an idea, gets given a team with plenty work ethic and no little talent - fairy tale stuff, but when it came to replacing the personnel which success moved on to brighter & better things ...he sucked like a 10 bob hooker, even with the record amounts of cash he was demanding off the board (and wasting).

He was a success  but ultimately he was a failure, as he was before and has been since. 

So long john and thanks for all the fish.

"It was the best team he ever inherited"

Satan, 2019.👹

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23 minutes ago, wynthank15 said:

"There are a minority of our fans who think John Hughes was a failure at our club. As far as I am concerned there should be a statue of the man outside our stadium" Charlie Christie Sportsound 7th February 2019.

I wonder who gave a young player a start in the game who is now starring for one of the big Glasgow teams

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I think it was put quite well by whoever it was that said to me "John Hughes is more clever than most people think but he's not quite as clever as he thinks he is." 

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Yogi was a legend he had us punching well above our weight and playing attractive football something we ain't seen since! The jury's out on his signing how do you replace the shinnies and Watkins etc on the peanuts the board were giving him was also unlucky with injuries to the likes of Thompson sho silva and meekings! The real blame for running down our club is the previous board sticking with foran after that scudding by Hamilton and backing him with decent cash btw mcnaughton and Billy Mackay would've been on big dollars! We'd binned him then and got in likes of Peter Houston I believe we'd still me a mid table spl side 

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Yogi wasn't given 'peanuts' though, that's simply not true. He was given a bigger budget than any previous manager. 

I don't think he was blameless for some of our issues upon his departure as he clearly engineered the situation but yes the board and Foran have to take the bulk of the blame there. Nobody I remember at the time wanted Foran as manager really. More of a wishful 'I like him and I hope he does well.' 

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58 minutes ago, Fraz said:

Yogi wasn't given 'peanuts' though, that's simply not true. He was given a bigger budget than any previous manager. 

I don't think he was blameless for some of our issues upon his departure as he clearly engineered the situation but yes the board and Foran have to take the bulk of the blame there. Nobody I remember at the time wanted Foran as manager really. More of a wishful 'I like him and I hope he does well.' 

Maybe not peanuts but defo not enough to replace the Calibre of players we lost and still would've been the lowest budget in the spl! Dunno if he did engineer his departure spoke to yogi a few times he seemed to proper enjoy living up here who mos tho! Ye your right most fans were shocked at forans appointment would've been a good assistant manager Richie!

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On 2/7/2019 at 10:07 AM, Kingsmills said:

A topic that has been done to death and I have been as guilty as most.. We are where we are, no matter who's fault it is we are here.

How we got into this state is no longer important. What is important is where and how we go from here and how things can improve.

Couldn't agree more, I too was guilty of having more than my fair share of discussions about this and now I'm bored of it.

How does a post like this help our current situation other than causing further divisions on the forum between posters, move on, accept it and look forward.

We're in serious danger of becoming that club that always looks back and thinks what if.  

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47 minutes ago, Alan Simpson said:

Maybe not peanuts but defo not enough to replace the Calibre of players we lost and still would've been the lowest budget in the spl!

Butcher and managers before Hughes seemed to get on okay with signing players for less money than Yogi had to play with. Why did he sign so many stinkers? He was a great manager for us and took us to places we'll realistically never see again but it was time for him to go. The public fall out between manager and chairman was only going to end one way.

Foran was an unmitigated disaster. On every conceivable level. We'll rue the day he wasn't punted after that Accies match you mention. Who knows where we would be if he had been binned and we got someone else in. 

All ifs buts and maybes now sadly.

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Hughes is the best manager we've ever had. He's taken us to Europe and to two cup finals, winning one, in two attempts. However his reputation has been shattered after he went down with the Kirkcaldy boys.

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12 minutes ago, Jack Waddington said:

Hughes is the best manager we've ever had. He's taken us to Europe and to two cup finals, winning one, in two attempts. However his reputation has been shattered after he went down with the Kirkcaldy boys.

Hughes was possibly the most successful manager (depends how you view winning a cup against winning a league over the course of a season).

Not sure the majority would say hs is our best manager.

He was fortunate to inherit a team built by Butcher with a few gems from the youth ranks. He then bullied the board into loosening wages in contracts and to bring in a raft of poor players at significant cost. Whilst the year under Foran put the nail in the coffin, the rot very much started on his watch in spite of being blessed witht the best playing budget of any of our previous managers.

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2 hours ago, Alan Simpson said:

Maybe not peanuts but defo not enough to replace the Calibre of players we lost and still would've been the lowest budget in the spl! Dunno if he did engineer his departure spoke to yogi a few times he seemed to proper enjoy living up here who mos tho! Ye your right most fans were shocked at forans appointment would've been a good assistant manager Richie!

A lot of rewriting of history here except the Foran point. 

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Rather than still celebrate the fact we managed to win the Scottish Cup and appreciate the achievement of the team and manager ignoring the fact that while he may have had a high budget for ICT, it was nowhere near the highest or even 3rd highest budget in Scottish football yet managed to deliver a trophy and a 3rd place league finish - showing significant over-achievement. Realistically we should never have got to cup finals and spent the season fighting relegation with Hamilton!!!

 

 

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35 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

Rather than still celebrate the fact we managed to win the Scottish Cup and appreciate the achievement of the team and manager ignoring the fact that while he may have had a high budget for ICT, it was nowhere near the highest or even 3rd highest budget in Scottish football yet managed to deliver a trophy and a 3rd place league finish - showing significant over-achievement. Realistically we should never have got to cup finals and spent the season fighting relegation with Hamilton!!!

 

 

On that logic surely all the plaudits should sit with the runners up who were punching even further above their weight!!

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36 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

Rather than still celebrate the fact we managed to win the Scottish Cup and appreciate the achievement of the team and manager ignoring the fact that while he may have had a high budget for ICT, it was nowhere near the highest or even 3rd highest budget in Scottish football yet managed to deliver a trophy and a 3rd place league finish - showing significant over-achievement. Realistically we should never have got to cup finals and spent the season fighting relegation with Hamilton!!!

No we shouldn't. We had great players in that team. Whilst I agree that we shouldn't have been expecting Cup finals our sights were definitely beyond battling it out at the bottom of the table with the personnel we had to work with.

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13 minutes ago, RiG said:

No we shouldn't. We had great players in that team. Whilst I agree that we shouldn't have been expecting Cup finals our sights were definitely beyond battling it out at the bottom of the table with the personnel we had to work with.

But that would be basing it on ability which considers lesser paid players playing at a higher level for less money than their peers (Shinnie, Christie, Watkins etc etc), whereas 90% of the comments on this thread relate to budgets and how much money Yogi had. On that basis only Hamilton and possibly St Mirren had budgets similar or lesser than ours in that league, therefore we should not have been anywhere else other than the lower end of the table.

Cant argue Yogi wasted money if he finished higher in the league and was more successful than his budget should have allowed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Scottish_Premiership

 

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It's amazing how aspirations are affected when there are no teams from Edinburgh or no sevco in the top flight.

Without them everyone could aim for 3rd or 4th place, irrespective of budgets.

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6 hours ago, Satan said:

It's amazing how aspirations are affected when there are no teams from Edinburgh or no sevco in the top flight.

Without them everyone could aim for 3rd or 4th place, irrespective of budgets.

What are you havering about? we beat Sevco 3-0 on their own midden in the league cup and hearts, you can only beat what is in front of you we finished 3rd only Celtic and Aberdeen were more consistent, clubs with massively greater budgets so don't rubbish the club's achievements. Oh I nearly forgot,we also won a cup that year beating the top team on the way.

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12 hours ago, Satan said:

It's amazing how aspirations are affected when there are no teams from Edinburgh or no sevco in the top flight.

Without them everyone could aim for 3rd or 4th place, irrespective of budgets.

Yes everyone could aim. Only we succeeded. We were a better side than any of the above mentioned. We got where we were on merit. 

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I just think the stars colided and we had as good a team as anyone at that time. No doubt it was Butchers team but Yogi improved them.Yogi was a superb coach but maybe not as good a manager ie in recruitment. 

I agree with Fraz here. It all went pear shaped when we didnt let him go to United and sadly was only going to have one ending with his eventual departure. 

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11 hours ago, wynthank15 said:

What are you havering about? we beat Sevco 3-0 on their own midden in the league cup and hearts, you can only beat what is in front of you we finished 3rd only Celtic and Aberdeen were more consistent, clubs with massively greater budgets so don't rubbish the club's achievements. Oh I nearly forgot,we also won a cup that year beating the top team on the way.

Don't often agree with you but I think you're pretty spot on here. We were an excellent team for a good few years. Some horrendous management from, well, the managers and the board see us where we are now. 

Still, I hope we don't become like Aberdeen. Always looking back. It would be good to make some more memories with ICT now. 

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14 hours ago, wynthank15 said:

What are you havering about? we beat Sevco 3-0 on their own midden in the league cup and hearts, you can only beat what is in front of you we finished 3rd only Celtic and Aberdeen were more consistent, clubs with massively greater budgets so don't rubbish the club's achievements. Oh I nearly forgot,we also won a cup that year beating the top team on the way.

I was 'havering' about the league , you plank. You obviously can't read that well. Cup successes irrelevant in this case. 

The rest of the league could quite reasonably expect to aim high with three big clubs missing.

Luck played it part in the cup runs (and meekings hand), with a lower league team giving us a bit of a scare in the final - the rest is history.

Don't read too much into budgets and where that should place you in the league, our problems began when we had a bigger budget that was squandered on some terrible 'professional's. 

Fortunately,  for john, his team was already well established when he arrived..

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