Kelty/ Is this a joke - merged thread

[old caley girl]

2 hours ago, CaleyCiuin said:

Before any of the things you mention happen, a new buyer or investor will need to be found. This needs to happen very soon. If not the a club will go into administration. The running of the Club then falls to them and they begin paying off creditors etc with the Clubs assets(what ever they are), and seeing if there is any viable business left. My fear is they ask for season ticket money, that pays for whatever …. and we still go bust! 

I'd assume they will need income to pay the wages next month? Season Ticket sales would be the obvious option? However the end of the month seems a long way away given everything seems to change daily 

[Charles Bannerman]

1 hour ago, old caley girl said:

I'd assume they will need income to pay the wages next month? Season Ticket sales would be the obvious option? However the end of the month seems a long way away given everything seems to change daily 

I’m trying to get my head round any possible implications of season tickets needing to go on sale just at a time when an administrator may arrive and have full control over the income. The other consideration is how willing or otherwise supporters might be to pay for a full season up front if there’s any risk of the company ceasing to trade in later weeks or months should the administration process go badly.

Which brings me to one of the fundamentals of this whole business… it’s very difficult to estimate how bad things are because there’s a complete lack of information - and indeed the system seems to be set up to prevent information being obtained since questions put through the club go unanswered alongside a warning that there could be repercussions for journalists attempting to obtain information on their own initiative.

[old caley girl]

15 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

I’m trying to get my head round any possible implications of season tickets needing to go on sale just at a time when an administrator may arrive and have full control over the income. The other consideration is how willing or otherwise supporters might be to pay for a full season up front if there’s any risk of the company ceasing to trade in later weeks or months should the administration process go badly.

Which brings me to one of the fundamentals of this whole business… it’s very difficult to estimate how bad things are because there’s a complete lack of information - and indeed the system seems to be set up to prevent information being obtained since questions put through the club go unanswered alongside a warning that there could be repercussions for journalists attempting to obtain information on their own initiative.

Totally agree Charles. I , and probably many others, would want clarification on a number of matters including the CEO before parting with money? The repercussions re journalists suggests to me a certain individual is very much still in charge? 

[Charles Bannerman]

8 minutes ago, old caley girl said:

Totally agree Charles. I , and probably many others, would want clarification on a number of matters including the CEO before parting with money? The repercussions re journalists suggests to me a certain individual is very much still in charge? 

I can’t remember whether the communication was made just before or just after what I understand to have been the date of the CEO’s resignation which was 30th May.

[Achfary]

35 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

there could be repercussions for journalists attempting to obtain information on their own initiative.

The entire board are reprehensible. 

[Satan]

Very bad rumours circulating today.

Hoping that's all they are.

[Pele_Is_God]

Do share.....

[+DoofersDad]

47 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Which brings me to one of the fundamentals of this whole business… it’s very difficult to estimate how bad things are because there’s a complete lack of information - and indeed the system seems to be set up to prevent information being obtained since questions put through the club go unanswered alongside a warning that there could be repercussions for journalists attempting to obtain information on their own initiative.

This is at the heart of the problem.  It is all very well for the club to say we all need to pull together, but what exactly are we supposed to be pulling together on?  Given the club's recent record of catastrophic decision making, are we simply expected to dip deeper into our pockets to finance more bad decisions taken without any consultation?

In his recent Wyness Shuffle interview, Morrison stated that the 2022/3 cup run windfall of around £800k was used to pay off creditors.  He also said that the club currently owe £300k  to creditors.  In other words, the club effectively has at least £500k less debt than it had at the start of the season.  So what's the problem?

Well, the problem is that they have made decisions based on money they were assuming would materialise but which hasn't.  And it hasn't materialised because they mismanaged the BESS application and signed contracts which were not sufficiently robust.  Communication on these issues has been poor and consultation non-existent.  In the meantime, cash flow was managed because directors were putting money into the club on a loan basis in anticipation of forthcoming windfalls.  Now there is no imminent windfall and the directors don't feel able to put more money into the club.  The answer?  Fans and new "investors" to put money into the club as part of the pulling togetherness!  

But hold on a minute!  Morrison and Munro have both lodged charges against the club in order to protect their loans.  In effect, this means that we, the long suffering fans, are expected to dip into our pockets and fork out money which can then be paid back to the very people who got the club into the mess in the first place!  I am more than willing to spend as much on the club in League 1 as I did when we were in the Premiership - and more, but I don't want my money being used to pay back directors' loans.  I want my money to help pay the wages of the players and the hard working staff at the stadium.  I want my money to help with some of the stadium improvements required to address the issues raised in the Supporters Trust's matchday experience survey.

If the club want us to "pull together" then I am more than willing to do so.  But first, those who got us into this crisis have to take the lead and accept their accountability.  Morrison  and Munro should withdraw the charges they hold against the club and all directors who have bankrolled the club with loans should publicly declare that they are writing off those loans.  Not only would that demonstrate accountability on their behalf, it would open the door to major investors who will not want to have a significant amount of their money swallowed up by repaying those who are responsible for the mess.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Is Gardiner actually staying around because he is putting all his faith still in the Battery Farm ? That is the only reason that I can think of Then he may go thinking that he saved us !!! Oh - and money of course.

[STFU]

2 hours ago, Pele_Is_God said:

Do share.....

Club licensing.  I don't know the first thing about it but seems that if we go into admin we can't get the license we need to play in the SPFL.  Lot of chatter about it on Pie and Bovril.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Don't you just wish that we could get the truth - pr a morsel of it from the horse's mouth. It just goes to show what shackles or threats Gardiner has deployed.

[dougal]

58 minutes ago, STFU said:

Club licensing.  I don't know the first thing about it but seems that if we go into admin we can't get the license we need to play in the SPFL.  Lot of chatter about it on Pie and Bovril.

If we enter Administration we lose the bronze license  the same license that Buckie Thistle never had so couldn’t play the play off against East Kilbride. 
Unless something happens in the next couple of days it’s looking grim. 
I believe there is a statement being released on Wednesday regardless. 
 

Dougal

Edited June 9 by dougal

[Satan]

3 hours ago, Pele_Is_God said:

Do share.....

Accounts not adding up, insolvency,  and all that follows.

[CaleyCanary]

Ma heid is spinning - ok so we could lose our bronze license, probably deservedly so, but is that the case in all circumstances when a club enters administration?

What actually happened with the demise of Glasgow Rangers FC, did they lose their license and simply started afresh as a new company with a new name? Is that what we may need to do by winding up ICT FC and reinventing ourselves like New Rangers or Airdrie?

I’m thoroughly confused by all the technicalities and certainly wouldn’t want to invest in such a mess if I was an outsider - if we’ve any chance of finding a rich saviour then they surely must need to have some local connection and a love for the club.

Edited June 9 by CaleyCanary

[+DoofersDad]

It gets grimmer by the day.  On 29th Feb, the club filed a change of accounting reference date, so that the end of year accounts were to end on 30th May rather than the 31st.  I seem to recall that someone (Yngwie?) explained that this was a common accounting device which allowed the due date for the current accounts to be submitted to be extended by a month.  It sounds as if that would be done in the event of knowing there was a problem with the accounts. None of the few communications from the Board have made any reference to there being any problem with the accounts nor have they enlightened latterly why the accounts have not been filed at Companies House.  

In his Wyness Shuffle interview, Morrison said that it would be easy to provide any potential investor with relevant due diligence information.  Bennett was saying that Gardiner had been tasked with seeking new investment from local firms.  Surely, if anything, he should be tasked with getting the accounts sorted.  If Gardiner is the one chasing potential investors, it seems unlikely that anyone is going to test Morrison's claim regarding due diligence.  Gardiner would probably have more success going to Celtic Park to recruit for an Orange march than getting local businesses to invest whilst he is still on the payroll.

It is beginning to look increasingly unlikely that we will have the pleasure of welcoming the mighty Annan Athletic back to Inverness this season.

[STFU]

8 minutes ago, CaleyCanary said:

Ma heid is spinning - ok so we could lose our bronze license, probably deservedly so, but is that the case in all circumstances when a club enters administration?

What actually happened with the demise of Glasgow Rangers FC, did they lose their license and simply started afresh as a new company with a new name? Is that what we may need to do by winding up ICT FC and reinventing ourselves like New Rangers or Airdrie?

I’m thoroughly confused by all the technicalities and certainly wouldn’t want to invest in such a mess if I was an outsider - if we’ve any chance of finding a rich saviour then they surely must need to have some local connection and a love for the club.

If my understanding is right the SFA licensing says no club who has had an insolvency event in the past 3 years can hold a bronze license.

The SPFL changed the rules last year to say that all clubs must have a bronze license as minimum to play in the leagues from the 2024/25 season.  Buckie Thistle were refused promotion because they didn't have one.

The above rule was not in place when Rangers went through their issues.

Edited June 9 by STFU

[+Fraz]

The cobbled together rules are somewhat contradicting. These rules in concert would effectively mean that any club having any kind of insolvency event would have to close its doors for 3 years, which would be absolutely ridiculous. 

Unless I'm missing something here?

[+snorbens_caleyman]

I've just had a quick look at the rules, and came to the same conclusion as Fraz.  

An insolvency event, of which appointing an administrator is one example, appears to lead to 3 years out in the cold.  Seems damn stupid, especially if the administrator can find a way to keep the club running.

[STFU]

10 minutes ago, Fraz said:

The cobbled together rules are somewhat contradicting. These rules in concert would effectively mean that any club having any kind of insolvency event would have to close its doors for 3 years, which would be absolutely ridiculous. 

Unless I'm missing something here?

Yeah it's terrible that football clubs should be forced to operate in a financially responsible manner

[IBM]

I am sure that when the Buckie Thistle saga was in the news I read that there are existing clubs in the league that do not have a bronze licence although it is different from our potential problem.

Someone told me today that a local business has an advertising board pitch side and nobody from the club has been in touch for four years there could be more like that and it's a lot of money not collected by the club. 

[GaliantGrunt]

At the time of the Buckie fiasco there was word that a number of other league clubs still had no bronze licences. If I remember correctly a date in June was the deadline for these licences to be issued? Presumably they(I can’t recall who) have been successful in obtaining the licence. 

[Yngwie]

1 hour ago, STFU said:

Yeah it's terrible that football clubs should be forced to operate in a financially responsible manner

Couple of thoughts on that.

1. It’s arguably harsh on clubs (like us) who were already on the brink of administration long before the new rule came in and were trying to cut costs, as opposed to clubs who might be financially irresponsible after the new rule comes in who would surely be the target of the rule.

2. To kick clubs out of the SPFL for at least 3 years seems an incredibly harsh and disproportionate penalty. I don’t think other countries are as draconian, are they? 

[STFU]

40 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

Couple of thoughts on that.

1. It’s arguably harsh on clubs (like us) who were already on the brink of administration long before the new rule came in and were trying to cut costs, as opposed to clubs who might be financially irresponsible after the new rule comes in who would surely be the target of the rule.

2. To kick clubs out of the SPFL for at least 3 years seems an incredibly harsh and disproportionate penalty. I don’t think other countries are as draconian, are they? 

Having spent a chunk of the evening reading up on it the rule requiring all 42 teams to have a bronze license was voted in unanimously by all SPFL clubs last July. If clubs felt the rule or penalty was draconian they had the opportunity to vote it down or have it ammended.

That also means this is not a penalty being applied to anyone after the fact and all clubs had a year to get their house in order.

The need to be insolvency event free for three years to obtain a bronze (or above) license is not a new thing.

I also see within the licensing criteria that the club will have had to submit audited accounts last month in order to maintain a bronze (or above) license.

 

[IBM]

It's looking kike our custodians have really ****** up and with nothing positive in the horizon it looks like our days are numbered 

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

7 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Is Gardiner actually staying around because he is putting all his faith still in the Battery Farm ? That is the only reason that I can think of Then he may go thinking that he saved us !!! Oh - and money of course.

He is almost certainly being interrogated by the Insolvency Practitioner.