What "nationality" are you?

[Guest TinCanFan]

Following on from what I said earlier in the thread, one day I hope to see a world where questions like these would never be needed.  Am I proud to be Scottish? No.  Where I happened to born was a complete accident.  I didn't choose it.  For example, there's a tree outside my house, and am I proud about that it is there?  No.  I didn't put it there.  I've never understood why people have to class themselves as different things and why people are desperate to create barriers between each other.  I could never dislike someone because of the colour of their skin, their gender, their sexual orientation, their religion or from which side of an imaginary line they were born on.  The way some people dislike each other, because of these little differences, annoys me and in some ways saddens me.  A poster earlier in the thread said that the birthplace doesn't matter, but the genes do.  No, none of it matters.  We are all people of the world and that is all that matters to me.

If people are proud to be from a certain country(Scotland for example), are they proud to be born in Europe? Are they proud to be from the Northern Hemisphere?  For me, the answer to all these questions is no.  As I said before I am not a patriot nor am I nationalist.  Patriotism and nationalism in the wrong minds are more dangerous than a nuclear bomb and it is not now that there are too few countries in the world, it is that there are already too many.  Even if I were proud to be where I was from, I don't think Britain's/Scotland's actions in the world just now and the actions in past are exactly anything to be proud of.  In fact, quite the opposite.  John Lennon got it absolutley right when he wanted a world without countries.  I completely agree, and there should only be one country in the world, the world itself.  This'll be my final post on this issue as I think it sums up the way I feel about this issue and maybe if everyone had the same view I do, then I reckon the world would be a far better place to be.

[Kingsmills]

I consider myself Scottish and European. The sooner that I'm no longer even nominally British the better !

[CaleyD]

TinCanFan.....There's many figures/cultures throughout history who shared your totalitarian view of how the world should be.  Hitlers world of people of a perfect race, Stalin and his communist views of building the worlds strongest power....you can go back to the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Spanish who all had a go, as did the British and more recently the Americans seem to be intent on pushing their way of life onto the rest of the world.  All of them gained a certain level of success, but it was short lived...and the reason it was short lived was because it's not how man was meant to be.

Ironically the diversity of man is both it's biggest strength and it's biggest weakness.  However, the answer to the problem is not to remove all personal identity.  People need to learn to be more "live and let live".

I'm Scottish and proud of it, that doesn't mean I want to go out conquering the globe and making everyone the same as me or hating them for being different....and I personally think your a little out of order to paint everyone who considers themselves a Patriot or a Nationalist in such a manner.

[Guest TinCanFan]

TinCanFan.....There's many figures/cultures throughout history who shared your totalitarian view of how the world should be.  Hitlers world of people of a perfect race, Stalin and his communist views of building the worlds strongest power....you can go back to the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, Spanish who all had a go, as did the British and more recently the Americans seem to be intent on pushing their way of life onto the rest of the world. 

The thing is though, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of the gang were intollerant little twits who only wanted people in their world who fitted a certain mold.  I think we all live in harmony, regardless of differences.  Though in some instances we should have our own stuff.

Ironically the diversity of man is both it's biggest strength and it's biggest weakness.  However, the answer to the problem is not to remove all personal identity. 

Here I agree with you.  We should live the way we want and not to remove these things that make us different.

that doesn't mean I want to go out conquering the globe

No it doesn't, but I wouldn't want to go conquering the world either. One giant nation may not be a great idea.  One of the things I meant in my post is that we should all see each other for who we are, not by which country we're from.

However, the answer to the problem is not to remove all personal identity.  People need to learn to be more "live and let live".

Agreed here on both counts.

hating them for being different.

I know you don't, but there seems to be a viciousness now in some people in Scotland towards England, all in the name of patriotism.  These people are morons.  And I heard that outside a pub in Inverness recently, a bunch of Poles got together and burned the German flag and I've heard that with many Poles there is a strong anti-German feeling (not all though).  Sure, Hitler did terrible things to the Poles, but here they paint every German as a Nazi.  These people need to move on from the past and stop hating each other because one group of people happened to born on the other side of an imaginary line.

and I personally think your a little out of order to paint everyone who considers themselves a Patriot or a Nationalist in such a manner.

Maybe so, but I said that patriotism and nationalism, in the wrong minds is dangerous.  Look at Hitler, he was ultra-patriotic for Germany (even though he was Austrian).  When it's in a stable mind, it's okay, but doesn't make me want to follow it.  I agree with what people like Billy Connolly say when we have to fight these feelings.  I've never been a flag-waver or anything like that and would never encourage anyone to do but apoligise if I unintentionally painted every patriot and/or nationalist as a Hitler-like nutcase as that was not what I meant. 

[Mee]

You seem to think Nationalism is a negative thing, well its not, you can be proud of your country and birthplace without being derogatory about other nations!

Our differences are what makes us special and interesting, I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone was the same.

[Tug]

well i am proud to be scottish but i answered british

i am still serving in the raf and i belevie we are all one team and i think we are all part of one team

[Heilandee]

I agree Tug, I reckon most folk who have done time in the forces will know where your coming from.

[Guest TinCanFan]

You seem to think Nationalism is a negative thing, well its not,

You might think so, but it aint my cup of tea and the fewer parliaments, the fewer nationalists and the fewer patriots there are, the happier I become.

can be proud of your country and birthplace without being derogatory about other nations!

Of course you can.

Our differences are what makes us special and interesting, I wouldn't want to live in a world where everyone was the same.

Nor do I, I don't want this communist-like world either and I now reckon that one giant country would not be a good idea but too many (a place the world may now be in) could be equally as bad, if not worse.  Anyway, I didn't say we should all be the same, I said we should have differences and respect them and live and view each other as if we were all one giant country.

[starchief]

I don't think TCF is saying people should be forced to abandon countries, nationhood and the rest.  Just he'd prefer if people came to that conclusion on their own means.  I probably agree but I don't think you can ignore we're all animals and that territorialism is part of the human condition.  I think there's a difference between patriotism (proud of one's country) and nationalism (the belief that one's country is superior).  Just my terms though.

I'd say I was proud of being both Scots and Canadian.  But that's because they 'feel' like home.  It's certainly not the government (any government), the Iraq War, neds or "my country - right or wrong".  In fact, as far as people are concerned, a man's a man for a' that.  There's good and bad in every race, creed, country and religion.

[ICTFCkev]

This'll be my final post on this issue . . .

  :rolleyes02:

[Mee]

I think there's a difference between patriotism (proud of one's country) and nationalism (the belief that one's country is superior).  Just my terms though.

I know you've qualified that with saying it's just your terms but Nationalism is NOT the belief that your country is superior, in Scotland's case it is the fight for our NATION to govern itself, not be governed by another nation!

[Drochit Blue]

Scottish

Despite living in England most of my life, i was born in Scotland and have always supported Scotland in sports.

(anyone know how I can get rid of an English accent?)

[PullMyFinger]

Scottish

Despite living in England most of my life, i was born in Scotland and have always supported Scotland in sports.

(anyone know how I can get rid of an English accent?)

A scene from the godfather springs to mind but as this forum is frequented by minors I shall refrain.

[alimci]

And I heard that outside a pub in Inverness recently, a bunch of Poles got together and burned the German flag

Just read this for the first time. That is utterly appalling. Particularly as I'm always encouraging German friends to visit  :008: :007:

[Alex MacLeod]

I carry the passport of a citizen of the European Union though I was born and bred Scottish and forced to be British by English legislation.

[Guest birdog]

I carry the passport of a citizen of the European Union though I was born and bred Scottish and forced to be British by English legislation.

I have had a tattoo for 12 years, it is the SRU badge with text around it which says "British by birth, Scottish by the grace of God" which basically states the same sentiments as your quote.

[RichieKass]

Both

[Alex MacLeod]

I dont believe the Polish burn a German flag. I believe they burn a Nazi flag. And not as a matter of disrespect for Germans but as a point of rememberance of the suffering that was brought to that country by the Nazi regime. Much in the same way as we lay a wreath on a war memorial.

We fought in the war against Nazi-ism but, although we lost hundreds of thousands of people, both on the frontline and in the bombing raids, we didn't suffer the horrors of the Polish peoples. We didn't have whole families executed because of where or who they were born as. Indeed, the British of not so very long ago, in trying to annex the rest of the world, didn't hold back on the attempted annhialation of other tribes of the world. Do we have the right to condemn the Polish?

[Guest TinCanFan]

I dont believe the Polish burn a German flag. I believe they burn a Nazi flag. And not as a matter of disrespect for Germans but as a point of rememberance of the suffering that was brought to that country by the Nazi regime. Much in the same way as we lay a wreath on a war memorial.

We fought in the war against Nazi-ism but, although we lost hundreds of thousands of people, both on the frontline and in the bombing raids, we didn't suffer the horrors of the Polish peoples. We didn't have whole families executed because of where or who they were born as. Indeed, the British of not so very long ago, in trying to annex the rest of the world, didn't hold back on the attempted annhialation of other tribes of the world. Do we have the right to condemn the Polish?

Do we have the right to condemn what the Polish did?  Absolutely.  What they did was robbery and the burning is an insult to normal German people.  Of course the Poles suffered terribly under Hitler, but so did many normal Germans (German Jews etc).  That flag represents them too.  The burning of Nazi shows one thing but the burning of a current German flag sends a very different message.

[Alex MacLeod]

And you witnessed this and can confirm, by your own eyes, that it was the flag of the new Germany?

[Guest TinCanFan]

http://www.highland-news.co.uk/news/fullst...uro_defeat.html

And anyway, why would a pub in Inverness have a Nazi flag or any other previous German flag?

The article also says it was filmed which will prove what flag it was.

[Guest birdog]

I hope that any rioters who are convicted are deported from this country immediately on their conviction and banned from ever returning. It is not a case of whether they suffered at the hands of Germans during a war which ended 60 odd years ago, it's hard to believe that any 60 year old Poles were involved, what this is is football violence pure and simple.

I carry the passport of a citizen of the European Union though I was born and bred Scottish and forced to be British by English legislation.

Given that you are obviously nationalistic by this statement, does that mean that Scottish fans would not be condemned for rioting and burning St George's crosses should we be beaten by England (a country who we were at war with many times before you and I were born) I would condemn my countrymen for such actions and therefore that gives me the right to do so when Polish people riot in my country.

Do we have the right to condemn the Polish?

Very much so, yes.

[Joe DiMaggio]

Scottish first, Scottish second

[Alex MacLeod]

First of I was initially, as I hadn't read this article, led to believe the actions were those of anti-German poles and did not know they were in fact the anctics of a mod of drunken football fans p!ssed of that their own countryman had scored against them. Knowing the facts put a different slant on the incident and on my views on condemnation of such. i dont think for a minute it was meant as an act of racism as seemed to have been portrayed in the first instance.

[ICT90]

dutch