Where Have AllThe Fans Gone ?

[Kingsmills]

No he means the proper cup. You know the Scottish FA Cup that's so popular that it's about to enter it's second season without a sponsor.

[Jay_7]

The choice for me is spend ?300 for a season ticket that I can guarantee will result in a lot of Saturday evenings spent being angry and frustrated by sub-standard football, or spend ?380 on a years subscription to a golf course which will see me get much more enjoyment out of my Saturday afternoon. It's a no brainer for me I'm afraid.

Just to see what I was missing out on, I decided to tune into Saturdays game for a while. After hearing numerous mentions of "posession given away" and "long and hopeful ball" I soon switched the radio off.

All I intend to do now is watch for the results at 5pm and then come on here to look at folk like Wanderer tell us that if we're in the SPL we should be grateful.

Real fans turn out to support the club , being a supporter means turning out no matter what i'm afraid.

If golf is your thing fair enough, but when we get to play Rangers at home in the Cup i bet you will be looking for a ticket.

Ah the old "I'm not a real fan" routine. And you're so confident that I'm not a real fan that you add "I'm afraid" at the end of the sentence just to really hammer home, just how sure you are of what you're saying. Does being a "real" supporter also entail foaming at the mouth when reading bad things about ICT?...

I'll take you up on that bet, in fact I'll go one further. I bet that until changes are made for the better at the club, I will not cast a shadow over the turnstile there... What do you say?

[caley100]

The choice for me is spend ?300 for a season ticket that I can guarantee will result in a lot of Saturday evenings spent being angry and frustrated by sub-standard football, or spend ?380 on a years subscription to a golf course which will see me get much more enjoyment out of my Saturday afternoon. It's a no brainer for me I'm afraid.

Just to see what I was missing out on, I decided to tune into Saturdays game for a while. After hearing numerous mentions of "posession given away" and "long and hopeful ball" I soon switched the radio off.

All I intend to do now is watch for the results at 5pm and then come on here to look at folk like Wanderer tell us that if we're in the SPL we should be grateful.

Real fans turn out to support the club , being a supporter means turning out no matter what i'm afraid.

If golf is your thing fair enough, but when we get to play Rangers at home in the Cup i bet you will be looking for a ticket.

Ah the old "I'm not a real fan" routine. And you're so confident that I'm not a real fan that you add "I'm afraid" at the end of the sentence just to really hammer home, just how sure you are of what you're saying. Does being a "real" supporter also entail foaming at the mouth when reading bad things about ICT?...

I'll take you up on that bet, in fact I'll go one further. I bet that until changes are made for the better at the club, I will not cast a shadow over the turnstile there... What do you say?

Dont bother me one iota if you stay away from the Stadium, you are the one that bothered to post the story about preferring golf on a saturday, all i trying to point out is that a supporter turns out to support the team throught thick and thin.

Anyway, what would you consider changes for the better? when we start winning more games? when Brew leaves? does that not qualify you as a fair weather supporter?

[Jay_7]

The choice for me is spend ?300 for a season ticket that I can guarantee will result in a lot of Saturday evenings spent being angry and frustrated by sub-standard football, or spend ?380 on a years subscription to a golf course which will see me get much more enjoyment out of my Saturday afternoon. It's a no brainer for me I'm afraid.

Just to see what I was missing out on, I decided to tune into Saturdays game for a while. After hearing numerous mentions of "posession given away" and "long and hopeful ball" I soon switched the radio off.

All I intend to do now is watch for the results at 5pm and then come on here to look at folk like Wanderer tell us that if we're in the SPL we should be grateful.

Real fans turn out to support the club , being a supporter means turning out no matter what i'm afraid.

If golf is your thing fair enough, but when we get to play Rangers at home in the Cup i bet you will be looking for a ticket.

Ah the old "I'm not a real fan" routine. And you're so confident that I'm not a real fan that you add "I'm afraid" at the end of the sentence just to really hammer home, just how sure you are of what you're saying. Does being a "real" supporter also entail foaming at the mouth when reading bad things about ICT?...

I'll take you up on that bet, in fact I'll go one further. I bet that until changes are made for the better at the club, I will not cast a shadow over the turnstile there... What do you say?

Dont bother me one iota if you stay away from the Stadium, you are the one that bothered to post the story about preferring golf on a saturday, all i trying to point out is that a supporter turns out to support the team throught thick and thin.

Anyway, what would you consider changes for the better? when we start winning more games? when Brew leaves? does that not qualify you as a fair weather supporter?

My feelings on what would quantify changes for the better are well documented on here.

As you didn't spot this, I can tell you the purpose of sharing what I intend to do is indicative of what ICT are facing at the moment. I don't go to the football to be left feeling short changed and frustrated in the evening, I go to be entertained. There are far better value for money options for Saturday afternoon entertainment than what ICT are serving up at the moment and it's not limited to Golf.

Call me what you like, obviously I was a fair weather supporter last season when we were forced to endure watching the football equivelance of slop, was I? Who are you to brand me anything? :thumb04:

[RednBlackComeback]

Could the reason for the lack of investment in the stadium be that the club has plans to re-locate?

[Guest WynessLegend]

1. The economic climate is a big factor. Thats a no brainer. We have all heard credit crunch, the 'R' word (recession), and all sorts of other forecasts of doom and gloom. Football tends to come from most people's "disposable income" so when that is being disposed of before you get it ... there is a lot less to go around.

2. The club are doing nothing to entice fans. Whether it be personal issues with certain staff, the quality of the product on display (long ball hoof), or just the countless PR blunders we see each year, the club are - and have been - alienating themselves from the normal fans for quite some time. The permanent club shop is not a solution to all of this, but the lack of one is most definitely one of the outward symptoms of the contempt from some, and apathy from others, aimed towards fans.

I hope to be in Inverness for a visit soon, and right now I dont know if I can be bothered even looking at what game is on !!! That may not say much to you, and it is unlikely to have the club quaking in its boots but it is very telling to me personally.

Well, here we go again!!

CaleyD/Scotty - both their contributions are disappointing to me. Don, I accept, has an ongoing gripe with higher management at the club but I do believe it is the first time I have read Scotty being so down about the club.

Sorry to disappoint you !! but as I said in my post, I dont blame everything on the club - the current economic climate has a lot to do with it - but conversely, the club dont get off the hook either as I dont really see what they are doing to entice fans to the stadium or to participate in other ways.

Lets get the economic factors out of the way first ..... I think many would agree that the price of petrol, the dwindling amount of disposable income that people have, and just the general malaise that accompanies an economic downturn is definitely a big factor. We have a lot of fans who do not live in Inverness and many people are not prepared (or cannot justify) spending a fair bit of cash on petrol/food etc to travel long distances to watch the team. We have heard Mantis say it, we have heard others say it and I am sure there are others who feel the same even if they live in Inverness. Accompanying those economic fears are also fears over the performance level they will witness when they arrive and that is valid too.

Lets look at fans going to the game (be they Inverness based or if they have travelled to get here).

It costs ?25 for an adult for most games for the main stand and what are you guaranteed for that. In previous years you could be guaranteed a somewhat friendly atmosphere, the club actually talked to and not at its fans, you could release some of your humdrum day-to-day life frustrations by urging your team on to victory and in most cases you could do this without the threat of a banning order or heavy handed stewards. Because we were in the lower leagues we put up with sub-standard facilities such as the car park, the club shop, the serveries etc and concentrated more on watching what was for many years a very good product on the park itself. That was all that mattered. Pele, Robbo, Charlie, and in spells even Craig Brewster put out a team that made some of the other stuff bearable.

Fast forward to today, we are in the SPL so the club hands are tied somewhat in terms of certain rules they have to follow. I understand that they do have to be more strict about stewarding (but not to the point of oppression), they do have to be circumspect about some of the things they say on their website (as they can be held responsible), and they do have to be a lot more business-like in most areas (as the revenue streams depend on it). However, it seems to me that the SPL is a double edged sword. It is great to be in the top league in the country but our 'style' has suffered because of it. The 'entertainment' on the park is no longer as entertaining and people can have their own theories as to whether this is because of the manager's tactics, or because its a dogfight from day one and you do what you have to do to stay up knowing that the best most teams can ever hope to achieve is 3rd place.

I havent done this but I am sure if we looked back over these boards to certain posting dates, that the grumbling about other things is directly relative to who we were playing and what the final score was. When we have victories over the OF or play well there is far less negativity than when we lose at home to the likes of Hamilton (no disrespect intended). I have stood and applauded the team off the park on numerous occasions when we have lost but given 100%. I came to be entertained, and a hard working team that tries its best will always entertain me and have my respect regardless of a win or loss. However, when the team takes to the park and doesnt perform, or the tactics are wrong (long ball against tallest back line in the SPL for example) then I fail to be entertained.

When the entertainment level drops, people get grumpy and look around at what else is not right and you get the list of things we have seen on here, or people have talked about in pubs over a pint for years ... the stewarding, the car park, the shop, the serveries, etc. fixing these things will NOT fix the lack of entertainment on the park, but the fact that we are still talking about these inadequacies 10 or more years after they first surfaced is symptomatic of the problem in my opinion, and that problem is that the club have little regard for and are doing little or nothing to improve the matchday experience for fans.

I agree with those who say the shop staff are excellent. They ARE and I am sure they would be just as excellent in a permanent location and who knows, they might even feel more like a part of the staff if they werent bolted onto the outside of the stadium and actually worked inside it !!! Lets also not forget that we DID have an internal club shop at the stadium for a number of years so the move to what was supposed to be a temporary portacabin was actually a step backwards.

As for the car park, I still cant believe we havent figured that out since we moved to this stadium. I understand the lack of a tarred surface (its to do with keeping the rates down), but it baffles me as to why we have not got some proper idea of traffic flow in place. I regularly park near BMO field for TFC games and even with 20,000+ of a crowd, I am out of the car park and onto the highway within 15 minutes of the game ending, and thats in a downtown location with its already heavy non-football traffic.

I could also cite numerous examples of ideas (or promises even) that were sold to the fans over the years that were going to make it a nicer atmosphere. 10 or more years ago there were going to be TVs in the servery area so that fans could see HT scores from other games and also what was going on if the queues were too long and the game restarted before they got back to their seat. A number of times over the years the idea of a matchday pub has been floated as has a proper social club in the town centre that was neither Caley or Thistle. All in all, there has been very little return on any ideas sold to us.

Whilst I am writing this short novel, I may as well also add on my own personal bugbears which is the lack of consideration for those fans who may like to participate but cannot make it to the stadium on a matchday, and the lack of communication between club and fans.

• I would like to order things via the club shop online but the ridiculous p&p charges for overseas fans make it a non starter.
  
• I would like to buy a season ticket for audio/video coverage via the net, but ICT are one of 4 SPL teams who have no package available. 2 of that 4 are in the process of creating one if what I hear is true, so ICT will be 1 of 2 soon unless Hamilton also start one.
  
• As for communication, I think this is where the club fall down badly. Communication has virtually evaporated in recent years. We went from having a monthly Q&A from the boardroom to the current state where things are on the BBC or on here days before the club issue any statement. We have also seen examples of where directives are issued with no consultation with the fans. I understand that the club are forced to do certain things but as with a lot of things in life, the bitter pill can be easier to swallow if it is presented in the right fashion.
  

So all in all, yes, I do have a down on the club right now and I hope this rant is taken in the right context as the club can easily fix that 'down'.

I am still and always will be a fervent ICT supporter, I get up very early on a Saturday morning to try and establish a connection to audio for the game, I am an ambassador for the club over here and despite any misgivings I may have, I miss no opportunity to talk the club up to others who may not know of the club or its history. However, that does not mean that I have to be content with what I see as half arsed attempts at PR or development, or that I should just accept that we do not treat customers the way they should be treated. I want the club to improve on and off the park, I want the club to be a success, I want us all to come on here and praise both the team and the backroom staff to the hilt and I will do that if I think the club are making an effort .... its up to the club to show they are making that effort.

To finish on at least one positive note, I will say one thing on the communication front .... We have been asked by the Supporter's Trust if we have any copies of the old Boardroom Banter articles available (which we do) and I hope to send some examples of these to both the trust and Mike Smith at some point this week. Hopefully, this might be a sign that the club would be willing to work with both the trust and this website to try and rectify the communication issue. As one of two people involved in setting this up initially, I can definitely say that it was one thing that got almost universal praise when the club did it before and if they would like to co-operate with us in reinstating it then we would be delighted to do so so that we can turn all these frowns upside down

Really can't be bothered reading through that.

Why not post a blog instead of cluttering up the forum with your novels?

[CaleyD]

Could the reason for the lack of investment in the stadium be that the club has plans to re-locate?

That's been the excuse for the last 10 years!!!

[Scotty]

Really can't be bothered reading through that. Why not post a blog instead of cluttering up the forum with your novels?

Why do you bother posting at all if you have nothing pertinent to add.

You can read it or not, I dont really care what you do, but I think it was a valid response to an earlier part of the discussion so for you to post that you can't be bothered reading it qwhile quoting it in its entirety is a lot more wasteful than saying nothing at all.

[Guest couchpotato]

For too long clubs have got away with milking the emotional money cow that is the "real supporter" only when people have the courage of their convictions and say " enough is enough" and hit back where it hurts financially will clubs and associations bother to sit up listen to them.Unfortunately, i believe by the time this happens many habitual supporter will have found that there are indeed far more rewarding and cost effective ways to pass Saturday afternoons.The moral high ground of going through thick and thin and being a "real" fan is all very well but how bad does the product/experiance have to get before realisation that sometimes we are all getting taken for nothing more than mug punters sinks in.

[CaleyD]

Really can't be bothered reading through that.

Why not post a blog instead of cluttering up the forum with your novels?

As opposed to cluttering it up by needlessly quoting it again in it's entirety?

[Glen Mhor]

Regardless of my criticism of the club, If i were still in Inverness, I would still be a season ticket holder.

Totally agree with that myself. If I still lived in Sneck I would certainly be a season ticket holder. Living where I do I try to do my best to support the team at away matches and an occasional trip north for a home game. Like so much else it's an expensive day with the cost of fuel to be taken into account.

[CaleyJulz]

For us its the cost we are a family of 4 so 4 season tickets 2x adults plus 2xkids is alot of money when you dont earn that much. On top of that there is travel cost match day programmes food drink etc. Over a season that soon mounts up.

So why dont the club do a family season ticket for a set price ???

[SMEE]

So why dont the club do a family season ticket for a set price ???

Let me take a stab at this one........Because the club and those charged with its care, lack initiative?

[Joonya]

So why dont the club do a family season ticket for a set price ???

Let me take a stab at this one........Because the club and those charged with its care, lack initiative?

This, IMO, is a very positive soulution to getting more people into the stadium. there is a family section, so why not offer a family section season ticket? There are so many ways to put bums on seats. Granted, the club hve made an effort with the Under 8's offer, but why not increse the age to under 12? There would certainly be alot more demand for that, and the club can make a fair sum from it...

Family season ticket for the price of 2 adults - I for one would go for that!!!

(Idea now added to the 'sticky' topic for club officials to review - feel free to post more ideas. It's OUR club, so lets do something about it)

[Scotty]

Family season ticket for the price of 2 adults - I for one would go for that!!!

to be fair - even though the numbers are still quite high, the club already do this. The cost of 2 adults for the main stand is ?680, and for the North Stand ?580. The cost for 2 adults + 2 kids (over 8) in family section of the NS is ?640 so less than the cost of two adults for the main stand and just ?60 more than the non-family portion of the North Stand. If the kids are under8, two adults and two kids in the family section are just ?420.

I still believe the whole cost is over-priced but that is not an ICT thing, it is a Scottish and to a greater extent, British Football thing.

Incidentally, I paid around $260 (?130) for my season book for TFC ... 15 home games, 2 international friendlies, and this year, the All-Star game. That is pricing !!!!!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Regardless of my criticism of the club, If i were still in Inverness, I would still be a season ticket holder.

Totally agree with that myself. If I still lived in Sneck I would certainly be a season ticket holder. Living where I do I try to do my best to support the team at away matches and an occasional trip north for a home game. Like so much else it's an expensive day with the cost of fuel to be taken into account.

I would have to totally agree - if (or when) I return to Sneck I will try to go to every game - even the reserves. I have read with some interest the debates as to whether you are a "fan" or a "supporter". I would say that a TRUE "fan" is the "diehard" - the one who stays on no matter what - now I would put maself in that category.

Most of the "diehards" have been there since day one and can recall the joys of going away to Stranraer or Berwick or Dumfries in midweek. Many have left sneck and can only be part timers these days.

Then there are the "fans" who came from the emergence of ICT and the media rush of the cup exploits. Many were part time diehards and many have departed.

Perhaps with the younger generation - they are spoilt - and there is the expectancy of SPL fotball, of victories and big games, cup runs, Europe - who knows - would they still be there if we hit the SFL again.

And then there is the club - penny pinching is the name of the game - we have to make every penny count so hiking the price may sound / feel like good business but we have to attract newcomers with "freebies" - especially the kids. We could certainly do better PR. the behaviour of our management team in recent seasons has not helped our image and we are as bad as anybody in Scotland at keeping the fans in the dark.

And unfortunately the glory hunting fascination of the Old Filth still prevails.

Some sing - I am Caley till I die - I live and breathe it.

[Council Juice]

The prices in the SPL for some of the provincial teams is somewhat spectacularly high. And make no jokes, we are a smaller team based on infrastructure and fan base.

I also think perhaps its to do with the fact when we were in the SFL i cared less about spending money on the game as win lose or draw it would usually be a fun day out. Maybe it's to do with the fact every club has a chance at that level (other than County obviously) but THAT doesnt stop me going to games as i enjoy being in the SPL as its the top tier.

But at any SPL game i've ever been at I tend to feel intimidated to some extent, or certainly did when i was younger.

The Stewards dont help. It does seem they'll pick the smaller fan base to carry out their actions on or the smaller folk like the kids who are there to enjoy themselves . I can deal with them facists though. I can accept their cowardness with soap dodgers and their chibs thus needing the better folk to vent their frustrations apon.

ALthough I'll never agree with insisting on no standing. German clubs manage standing areas perfectly well.. or why not have standing areas with a seat per man. Standing is not dangerous if managed properly and sensibly. Go to any gig and you'll generally come out alive even in a big crowd with stage surges, pits, crowd surfing etc. That doesnt go on at games.

Ways of getting more fans in is: under 8s free and under 15s for a low price like a fiver or if you bring a mate he goes half price(under 15s)

get students in cheaper too (im not one anymore so not an alteria motive) as they probably dont have much to spend their cash on so getting them to a game instead of lazying in bed on a saturday afternoon watching Hollyoaks reruns would be more benificial to society as a whole.

bring back booze at games. Everyone one who wants to drink proves age at turnstile and gets a token book with limited tokens to use. That way the club can restrict drink and drunkards and not have riots but also bring back the fun element.

A brick and mortar shop or even a better thing that we have, would benefit the staff with a better place to work and allow for a larger range perhaps?

The car park shouldnt really be an issue for people attending games. It i can imagine be frustrating but if it was me i wouldnt use it if it wasnt working, definitely not pay for it.

And talking to the fans and taking points on board and if finances arent there to pay for new shops, better parking etc then telling them and fund raisers can be organised. The type of fund raisers that unite the club and fans.. and hey get some players in on it too!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Perhaps some will chuckle at me saying this but there really is a lot of common sense being spouted on this thread. I hope that Gringo Junior and some peers use the likes of this thread to open up some dialogue with the club. What about a Monthly Fans Forum with a Standing Agenda - the minutes could be relayed back on here.

That puts the Club and the supporters in the spotlight - The club has to repsond to the agenda items and any actions taken would be a bonus BUT the supporters would have to apply themselves as well and turn out on a regular basis. It can be a chosen few representatives from each side - not a room full of tension.

We realy need a forum where the issues - some feel like eternal ones - are raised again and again.

[MorayJaggie]

I was lured to scottish football when I was at Primary School and ICT gave us free tickets to go and watch them when they were still at Telfrod Street. Ever since then I've been going to about 12 matches a season (work Permitting) I agree with the previous posters there are on average 3000 empty seats why not use them to get youngetrs into the club and get them supporting the local team instead of letting them walk around the city in gers or celtic tops which will lead to them getting on a bus at 8 am and heading down the A9 every week.

Edited August 26, 2008 by WayneThomson

[rgraham981]

Pretty much a part time fan here, although I do grace the club with my ?20 on the gate whenever I get the chance. The point I was going to make was due to my recent experiences in London, living near Brisbane Road and having been to a couple of Leyton Orient matches recently. Its not a big club, and the football is nowhere close to the SPL standard in my opinion, but they do seem to get people through the door week in, week out. Not sell-out crowds, but decent nonetheless.

Now, I know its in London with a huge population, but there are loads of other clubs right next door. The East End isn't exactly full of millionaires and the ?20 a ticket seems to be in line with games at the Longman, so its not like the cost is proving a factor. The one thing they do have though which I think really works is a social club/bar and proper shop in the main stand, which is packed for 2 hours before every game. Its basic and not anything exciting, but all the fans can meet before kick off and have a blether and beer or two without worrying about making it to the ground on time. And there are other pubs nearby which may disprove my theory, but as its under the main stand it is as easy as it can get ? and seems to work as its always busy before matches.

I don't know if it would ever be possible, licensing laws etc, but what they have isn't exactly threatening, in fact I think they allow kids accompanied by adults as well. To me it doesn't seem the most difficult thing to do to build a bar (basic like), get a deal with a brewery for enough beer for once a fortnight, so if a license is attainable it would be a quick and easy way to give something back to the fans, rather than making them trek the whole way from the town desperate for a slash, as I had to last time I was up!

[caley100]

Perhaps some will chuckle at me saying this but there really is a lot of common sense being spouted on this thread. I hope that Gringo Junior and some peers use the likes of this thread to open up some dialogue with the club. What about a Monthly Fans Forum with a Standing Agenda - the minutes could be relayed back on here.

That puts the Club and the supporters in the spotlight - The club has to repsond to the agenda items and any actions taken would be a bonus BUT the supporters would have to apply themselves as well and turn out on a regular basis. It can be a chosen few representatives from each side - not a room full of tension.

We realy need a forum where the issues - some feel like eternal ones - are raised again and again.

Is that not what the supporters trust is for?

[CaleyD]

Funnily enough Richard, when I brought up the subject of "communication" with Mike Smith the last time I met him, that was the exact same answer as he gave....and I think that's part of the problem. Until the Trust grow a pair and start worrying more about the fans than upsetting the club then they are nothing but a glorified Supports Club IMO, and that's not what is needed.

[Guest WynessLegend]

Really can't be bothered reading through that. Why not post a blog instead of cluttering up the forum with your novels?

Why do you bother posting at all if you have nothing pertinent to add.

Because it was there.

[SMEE]

Until the Trust grow a pair and start worrying more about the fans than upsetting the club then they are nothing but a glorified Supports Club IMO, and that's not what is needed.

It had actually crossed my mind as to why the Trust hadnt approached the club on behalf of the fans before regarding these issues. Maybe its time for a change at the top there then

[Kingsmills]

The not unexpected annual loss, approaching half a million pounds makes it all the more essential that a number of the issues reflected in this thread, particularly the lack of communication, are addressed sooner rather than later. We don't want the club ending up in the situation it was a decade or so ago struggling to servive a large burden of debt to the prejudice of the football operation.