Democracy in action...

[Johnboy]

Quote from Scotty on another thread. (now closed)

sorry. the topic of forum bans is not up for discussion or a decision by site members. The moderators will periodically review sanctions against a poster and make a decision based on our site rules.

This is a general point...

Shouldn't site members have a say in the appointment of moderators?

[Scotty]

Shouldn't site members have a say in the appointment of moderators?

I dont see why.

I (and others) have created, developed and maintained this site for users for the last 15 years. It is provided to you for free as a "service". I personally have spent thousands (probably 10s of thousands) in both hours and in cash in doing so and therefore have no problem in stating that those who I (and Donald) choose as moderators make and and will continue to make the decisions about how this forum is run.

We are always open to suggestions from members - and if you remember, we did increase the number of moderators when we moved here from SportNetwork and also tried to put together a team with wider views than the original team. However, in terms of site ownership and management, the bottom line is that we will run it as we see fit.

If you do not like how it is run, feel free to spend your own time and cash setting up your own site. You will very quickly gain an appreciation for how difficult it can be. If you like, we can even help you with some recommendations on people who will give you reasonable rates for the purchase of domain names, hosting packages, and all the other costs involved that normally come out of our own pockets.

As a matter of interest ... do you allow your guests to decide who cooks the breakfast, or who makes the beds or who makes the rules or sets the nightly rates at your guest house ? I would suggest the answer to that is no, you (and your partner) run it as you see fit .....................

[Yngwie]

And I suppose people can always exercise their democratic right not to visit the website if they don't like it.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

40-love to Scotty methinks. Unless Johnboy can come up with a Federesque return, maybe even game, set and match!

[Johnboy]

I'm not trying to rattle cages here, or even rock the boat....

All I was hoping was that my suggestion might have sparked off one of these earnest, meaningful debates that have become the stuff of legend on this website....

[Heilandee]

I'm not trying to rattle cages here, or even rock the boat....

Yes ya were!!!! ,noo let Scotty and Donald get on wi the joab that none of us would touch wi a barge pole ya shect stirring fifer ya

[Yngwie]

If I can draw a parallel, should football clubs have a say in who referees their games? Clubs would opt for a ref who they think would be favourable to them and their playing style, but it wouldn't be in the best interests of the game.

[Johnboy]

I'm not trying to rattle cages here, or even rock the boat....

Yes ya were!!!! ,noo let Scotty and Donald get on wi the joab that none of us would touch wi a barge pole ya shect stirring fifer ya

I agree with the barge pole comment, but lets not forget Scotty and Donald are paid handsomely for what they do...

Don even gave up a Chief Exec role with the RBS to help create CTO!

Bill Gates watch out.

[CaleyD]

Whoever's paying us must be sending my wages to the wrong bank account!!!

[+Gringo]

Shouldn't site members have a say in the appointment of moderators?

Absoloutly not. The appointment of moderators is the sole responsability of the site owners and not its members.

[Alex MacLeod]

Personally I feel honoured to have been invited to moderate this site. Unlike some sites I've visited this one is created for an audience with very differing views and through a very wide age grouping. My personal opinion on what should be moderated will reflect the family nature of the site. I dont like personal abuse or bullying, no matter what I think of the person its aimed at. I also dont like to view a site, that has children viewing, which is full of swearing or sexual, racial and physical abuse. I will moderate accordingly.

[Johnboy]

Personally I feel honoured to have been invited to moderate this site. Unlike some sites I've visited this one is created for an audience with very differing views and through a very wide age grouping. My personal opinion on what should be moderated will reflect the family nature of the site. I dont like personal abuse or bullying, no matter what I think of the person its aimed at. I also dont like to view a site, that has children viewing, which is full of swearing or sexual, racial and physical abuse. I will moderate accordingly.

Yes... Good comments.

Thanks for enhancing the quality of this debate Alex, which was in danger of lapsing into some kind of terminal decline.

Worth pointing out all the same, that the moderators are just as capable as anyone else of dishing out personal abuse!

Edited July 11, 2009 by Johnboy

[SMEE]

My question would be, what makes you choose the mods you do? is it all your mates/football day buddies? There are a few Mods on here that seldom seem to be about. In Scotty and co's defence...no site i frequent has user input when it comes to appointing mods. But...it does seem to be a case (on most sites) if your face fits.........

[Yngwie]

I'm sure Scotty can answer that one better than I can, but it's certainly not his mates.

One thing the mods he has picked seem to have in common, desides being big ICT fans, is that they have all been long term contributors to this site (5 to 10+ years) and have a shared understanding of what kind of site he wants it to be.

Speaking personally I have no connections at all with Scotty other than through this site. I've been a regular here for over 10 years, got asked to be a mod a couple of years ago. I don't really know why, but I considered it to be an honour and was happy to help out at a time when more mods were clearly needed. I think others will have similar stories.

And going back a long way, I'm pretty sure CaleyD got himself banned!

[tm4tj]

As in the title of the thread, moderators are entitled to their opinion as well. If anyone finds a post from another site user offensive/abusive etc, then report it using the relevant method and it will be dealt with. What some posters sometimes forget is that if they dish out the dirt, they should expect some dirt back. We are all different and that is what makes a forum, different opinions, whether right or wrong. I have never met Scotty, but he seems like a very well clued up geezer. I have met Caley D and most of the other mods, but not all of them. To be honest, since I have become a moderator on this site I have probably posted less frequently than before.

I was also asked by one of the admin if I could help out in the moderation and I accepted as I had plenty of spare time at that moment. We are only here to minimise any conflicts within our site and ensure everyone keeps within the forum terms of use. It's not rocket science and can be quite tedious when dealing with awkward customers, but in general nothing we can't keep tabs on. Most site users are perfectly well mannered and are not out to cause trouble, there are of course always exceptions to the rule.

Would anybody out there like to become a moderator??? What do you think it entails, and would you change your views on the site and the way it is run.

Thats an open question from myself and not one offered by the whole team.

I don't believe that the forum users should select the mods, but that they should be selected by the people that own/run the site.

[Scotty]

My question would be, what makes you choose the mods you do? is it all your mates/football day buddies? There are a few Mods on here that seldom seem to be about. In Scotty and co's defence...no site i frequent has user input when it comes to appointing mods. But...it does seem to be a case (on most sites) if your face fits.........

Some are people I have known for years (through the football) and whose opinions - whether they be in person or in print - are ones that I respect. These were pretty much the "original" mods stretching back over a few years.

Others (mainly the mods added a couple of years ago) are people - some of whom I have never met in person - who we feel have contributed to the site over a long period of time and whose opinions we have also come to respect. When we added the additional mods we purposely asked a few who we knew didnt always agree with us and some we had even had run-ins with but who we felt posted frankly (but intelligently) on subjects. This was designed to try and have the widest range of opinions at the "mod table" and I think we succeeded.

One thing the mods he has picked seem to have in common, desides being big ICT fans, is that they have all been long term contributors to this site (5 to 10+ years) and have a shared understanding of what kind of site he wants it to be.

Speaking personally I have no connections at all with Scotty other than through this site. I've been a regular here for over 10 years, got asked to be a mod a couple of years ago. I don't really know why, but I considered it to be an honour and was happy to help out at a time when more mods were clearly needed. I think others will have similar stories.

And going back a long way, I'm pretty sure CaleyD got himself banned!

Yup - spot on on the mod thing and yes I believe I may have banned CaleyD once (or was he posting as BigD or BigDon at the time - cant remember).

[CaleyD]

It's true that over the years (certainly the earlier ones) I probably had more warnings than most and and have been banned - twice, but the second time I banned myself by mistake so it doesn't count. I'm not the only member of the team to have been banned in the past!!! Becoming a Site Moderator and then and Administrator didn't change my views/thoughts/opinions but it did help me appreciate a little the pain in the erse I had been in the past.

Unfortunately there's a lot of things happen behind the scenes that most people never get to see or appreciate. You generally get to see, or become aware of, those whom we pose sanctions on....but you never see the efforts and conversations we have with those people and each other in an attempt to avoid such action.

Scotty has covered why/how moderators were selected and I'll echo the point on Respect and add Trust. You don't have to always agree with someone to respect and trust them and we consciously sought to cover as wide a range of people as we could. Not all of the team are as hands-on as some, but that's fine as they bring other things to the table.

When I first used CTO the annual page views numbered in the few thousands....last time I looked our annual page views were somewhere in the region of 6 Million and still climbing!!! It's gone from a couple of dozen to several hundred regular participants...and still climbing!!! Above all else.....it's probably one of the longest running fan sites for any team anywhere on the Web, so I think those running it must be getting something right.

[Renegade]

Here's a question, if another Mod was to be picked, who would you choose? And if you were asked, would you do it?

[RiG]

If I had to pick a Mod from one of the board members I would pick ICTChris, RossP or kencar.

Edited July 16, 2009 by RiG

[PullMyFinger]

I'd pick MissICT. ;) And no, I wouldn't. I get enough herding cats at work.

[Georgeios]

This is a bit of a daft please blow smoke up me "I want to be a Mod" Questions Ren.. I?m newish here and think the mod team have a wide range of views, I notice that sometimes some views are posted and some mods don?t get involved, they dont all jump on the band wagon.

As for how they are picked, Id ask... did we pick TB or was it the board? I see Scotty and the senior mods in a Board Capacity, (It is scottys site after all) and the rest of the mod as the back room staff with some input.. am I wide of the mark Scotty?

The title of the post is abit of a dig I believe as yes we do live in a Democracy but someone?s got to run the show, and looking at Scotty in a PM way if a vote was asked who should run the show.. for me it would be the one with the most experience, the one that?s put most of the time and effort in, the experienced one... so id vote for hummmm Scotty and his team..

In a democracy you have the right to leave and not come back too..

[Johnboy]

I'd pick MissICT. And no, I wouldn't. I get enough herding cats at work.

I don't think MissICT would be a bad a choice... I can't think of anyone more committed to ICT than she is.

It might even help create a better balance than exists at present...

Maybe I could re-write my question at the top of the thread...

What about a vote from the grass roots membership for the selection of just one addition to the moderating team?

A kind of ordinary people's representative!

Such an election surely wouldn't do any harm... might even create a bit of fun, which God knows seems to be in short supply around here these days.

MissICT for me!

[Scotty]

please re-read post #2

[PullMyFinger]

Please can site members have a say in the appointment of moderators?

Perhaps that would have triggered a different response, Johnboy.

[Johnboy]

Please can site members have a say in the appointment of moderators?

Perhaps that would have triggered a different response, Johnboy.

I doubt that very much!