Are Celtic illegally tapping a player ?

[Scotty]

Celtic unveiled a couple of trialists in the last day or two ....

one Freddie Ljunberg,formerly of Arsenal and then Seattle and Chicago ... A free agent so no worries there, a paycheck of around ?15K per week would probably secure his services and there are no red tape time-bombs waiting ......

However, the other trialist, namely a gentleman called Dwayne DeRosario, could be about to get them into a ****storm of immense proportions.

DeRo is captain of Toronto FC, is conractedto the club for another two years, and according to club sources is at Celtic without their permission or their knowledge.

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/12/reds-quash-de-ro-rumours

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/12/toronto-fc-statement-de-rosario

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/12/dero-celtic/

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/editor-s-picks/new-bhoys-dwayne-and-freddie-check-in-at-lennoxtown-1.1076854

[lukemackay]

i foresee a transfer ban from fifa might help us hold onto rooney and hayes. i just hope toronto make a big deal of it. when will celtic realise you cant get away with everything

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

i foresee a transfer ban from fifa might help us hold onto rooney and hayes. i just hope toronto make a big deal of it. when will celtic realise you cant get away with everything

What makes you think that Celtic have done anything wrong ? An agent offers his client to a club for a trial , where's the problem ?

[RiG]

That De Rosario hits a mean free kick:

[Scotty]

The problem is he is under contract with another club for two more years and cannot go for a trial without their consent

[Renegade]

I was saying ICT should make a move for de Rosario years ago!

[SMEE]

Are players totally blameless in this? I mean...they know the rules...they are aware if they are under contract. At the same time...yeah the club should be pulled up for breaking the rules too!

[CaleyD]

Players aren't blameless, but the system works in their favour.

If TFC are "unaware", then De Rosario could be in breach of contract for going to train with another team, but what are TFC/MLS going to do? Tear his contract up? Doubt it....as that is what he wants by all accounts. Fine him? They end up with a player even more pissed off than he already is. Bench him? Pay a decent player for sitting on the bench, not likely.

The only tool that the associations have for preventing the whole "tapping up" thing is to hit the clubs, and in this day and age the clubs should be making sure that all the necessary formalities are in place before taking players on trial etc.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

What makes you think that Celtic have done anything wrong ? An agent offers his client to a club for a trial , where's the problem ?

You have answered your own question - agents - just about the worst thing that I've seen happen to football in all my years.

[Scotty]

but what are TFC/MLS going to do? Tear his contract up? Doubt it....as that is what he wants by all accounts. Fine him? They end up with a player even more pissed off than he already is. Bench him? Pay a decent player for sitting on the bench, not likely.

Actually, thats what they conceivably could do !!!

MLS may not be one of the world's top leagues, but MLSE, owners of Toronto FC (as well as the Toronto Maple Leafs (NHL), Toronto Raptors (NBA), Toronto Marlies, Air Canada Centre, BMO Field, and 3 TV channels (one each for TFC, Leafs and Raptors) are most definitely one of the leagues top owners in terms of financial clout. It would cost them a couple of million, maybe $3m to make DeRo sit out the final two years of his contract and that is petty cash to them !!!! The big problem is salary cap. In a salary cap league they do not want to be sitting with $1m+ assigned to a player not playing. If MLS held on to the player's registration (they 'own' the players, not the clubs) and allowed MLSE to pay his wages but not count him against the salary cap then the player will be the loser ......

After his 'cheque signing' escapade last season, TFC fans would be evenly split on whether thats a good idea or not. He is a great player, and would be a huge hit in the SPL I have no doubt - possibly even on the scale of Lubo Moravcik - but recently his petulant demands for more cash are quite grating.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/3320012/Cheque-me-in.html

[Scotty]

DeRo's brother says different ..... : http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/912820--de-rosario-s-scottish-try-out-a-surprise-says-tfc

[Scarlet Pimple]

There seems to be some reasoning on behalf of DeRosario that Toronto FC promised to pay him a salary at a certain level and then welched on the deal. Is that correct Scotty?

If the club feel that they really have a big grievance with Dero going behind their back then why not sue Celtic for being an accessory to an illegality. That will sure hit the headlines and maybe stop this kind of farce happening again.

If his demands are eventually met by , say, Celtic then if he fails he is in the doo-doo but if he is successful as a Celtic (or other SPL or English League) player then he will finally be able to set himself up financially but will probably restrict hi future playing carerer to British clubs.?

Very energetic and influential player that's for sure. Toronto F.C do appear to be in a bit of a shambolic "behind the scenes" state at the moment if we believe all that is being written.

I am not sure that the rougher SPL will be to his taste though. When I saw him play over here in Canada he always seemed to get plenty of space to run aboutin and I rarely saw him pulled down brutally.

What doi you think Scotty. --think he will survive?

[Scotty]

There seems to be some reasoning on behalf of DeRosario that Toronto FC promised to pay him a salary at a certain level and then welched on the deal. Is that correct Scotty?

He signed a 4 year deal at around $450,000 per year (or ?6000 a week in Scottish money). He was happy to sign it as it was better than what he was on elsewhere. Basically that is it as far as any legal paperwork is concerned.

However, there was some speculation that Mo Johnston verbally agreed that he would be the DP as and when TFC brought one in but as TFC fans know, that ended up being Julian De Guzman and for half of last season 'Mista' as the second DP (a complete waste of money).

Personally, I believed that he should be a designated player for TFC and get the extra cash as he is clearly the cog that makes the whole machine work (despite not reaching the playoffs) and I could understand his frustration as DeGuz and moreso Mista came in on 4 times the salary he was on (DeGuz) and twice the salary (Mista for 1/2 a season), but his 'cheque cutting' celebration (followed 10 seconds later by an opposition goal) and now this stunt (if it turns out to be one) make me think that not only should he not be a DP, but that he should no longer be the captain of TFC or even a member of the squad. There are ways to air your grievances and ways to put your point across .... this was not the right one.

If you want to read a little more, a friend of mine does a blog about TFC and he has penned a few articles on DeRo and his history of asking for more.

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/09/the-dero-thing/

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/10/no-go-for-de-ro/

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2010/11/dero-wants-a-dp-deal/

If the club feel that they really have a big grievance with Dero going behind their back then why not sue Celtic for being an accessory to an illegality. That will sure hit the headlines and maybe stop this kind of farce happening again.

The details are still to come out, but from what I have been reading there is a suggestion that seems to hinge around a hypothetical conversation about loan/training in the off season rather than an actual agreement. One side (DeRo and his brother) says he was told he could do it, the other says it was just a hypothetical conversation and no permission was granted (Toronto FC). I am sure it will all come out in the next few days. Celtic are probably blameless in terms of tapping but not lilywhite as there should of at least been some due diligence that a player under contract to another club for two more full seasons actually had permission to speak to another club.

If his demands are eventually met by , say, Celtic then if he fails he is in the doo-doo but if he is successful as a Celtic (or other SPL or English League) player then he will finally be able to set himself up financially but will probably restrict hi future playing carerer to British clubs.?

He is 32, he doesnt have much of a future playing career. I would also wager that he doesnt have much of a career outside football anywhere near Toronto, including his home town of Scarborough, if this does happen and it is found that he orchestrated it. However, maybe Vancouver or Montreal will employ him in their organisations as they always like someone who f***** over anything or anyone from Toronto

Very energetic and influential player that's for sure. Toronto F.C do appear to be in a bit of a shambolic "behind the scenes" state at the moment if we believe all that is being written.

Yup, DeRo is a great player and I hope this all turns out to be mountains and molehills and we can enjoy him in TFC red for another few seasons, but there was a nasty taste left behind last season when he more or less demanded a huge increase despite having 2 years left of a cast-iron contract. I believe him when he says he was offered certain things that were then reneged upon, but he should have told Mo to put it in writing !!! The background at TFC was a feckin mess with Mo at the helm and still is. Never fear though, Jurgen Klinsmann is consulting on the way forward and we will have a whole new ethos and coaching setup in place by Christmas !!! He told reporters this much when they flew down to California to interview him !!!

I am not sure that the rougher SPL will be to his taste though. When I saw him play over here in Canada he always seemed to get plenty of space to run aboutin and I rarely saw him pulled down brutally.

I actually think he would do well in the SPL. I would say MLS is rougher, or at the very least, clumsier in terms of rash challenges and headless chicken stuff .... a player like DeRo would do well .... If Maurice Edu and Andy Dorman can come in and survive, DeRo might just turn out to be this decade's version of Lubo Moravcik for them. He is a classy player on the ball even if his more recent actions off the ball are not.

What doi you think Scotty. --think he will survive?

He would survive in the SPL but if this whole debacle is anything other than a complete misunderstanding based on the cluster**** that is the TFC front office then he is likely done as far as TFC and its fans are concerned.

[Scotty]

Scarlet - here's another couple of links !

1. Canadian Soccer News : This site is a bunch of legitimate football journalists who have very good contacts and one of them is now the official MLS reporter covering all things TFC (as well as a season ticket holder near to where I stand). an impeccable source in other words. http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?851-Blaming-the-victim

2. MLS's own website: Article written by one of the journos from #1 but still on the official website of the league so obviously has to be vetted and approved ! http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/mls-contact-celtic-regarding-de-rosario

[Renegade]

That De Rosario hits a mean free kick:

Holy Smokes!!!

[Scotty]

DeRo is a great player with good awareness and chips in with some great goals. It has been a pleasure watching him do his stuff forthe last couple of seasons ... 31 goals in 2 seasons with TFC, some as a striker but most from an attacking midfield role.

This one may not be as spectacular as the free kick but it shows an awareness of his space as well as a perfect chip ...... unfortunately, it also shows the beginning of the end as his normal 'chicken dance' after a goal is replaced by the cheque signing routine asking for more money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9eU70Kk-Ws

[Caley Braveheart]

BBC now repoting on this - Toronto / Celtic confusion

[Caley Braveheart]

Bhoys will not be punished by Toronto over De Rosario

Celtic in clear over trialist

[Scotty]

Wonder whether the rocky start to the trial blew his chance or whether he just did not impress ?

Either way, he will likely get a frosty reception back in Toronto ... its -10 here right now, the fans are split on this debacle and no-one knows what new headcoach, Aron Winter, named while DeRo was in Glasgow thinks of it all

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/celtic/220478-no-celtic-loan-move-for-de-rosario/

[Scotty]

The postscript on this story seems to be that Celtic wanted him on a short loan (until end of March) but Toronto FC said NO. New TFC coach Aron Winter wants his club captain front and centre when pre-season training begins tomorrow.