Another Loss

[madsooz]

After the demolition of Killie i thought tht would kickstart our season but i was obviously wrong. I really do fear for our season now as i think we are 2 points behind aberdeen now and look like we cannot win a single game. Is our season ever going to start?

[tm4tj]

Shock horror probe, losing 2-1 at Tynecastle, and two points behind some teams. We must surely get relegated.

Don't be so alarmed, plenty time to get worried yet, it's hardly a disaster.

[SMEE]

We get 3 wins, and other scores go for us...we could hit 8th or 7th place. its when we would need at least 5 wins to catch up on second bottom team is when i would start to worry.

Edited November 26, 2011 by SMEE

[Scotty]

After the demolition of Killie i thought tht would kickstart our season but i was obviously wrong. I really do fear for our season now as i think we are 2 points behind aberdeen now and look like we cannot win a single game. Is our season ever going to start?

We are 1 point behind Aberdeen - who do have a game in hand Vs St Johnstone - and 2 points behind Hibs and Dunfermline .. so thats 1 result away from 9th.

Losing to Hearts at Tynecastle is not a disaster ... and judging by the commentary we certainly did not get hammered. One of Tade's fluffs goes in, or the efforts from Andrew Shinnie or Jonny Hayes hit the target and we draw or even win ....

not time to panic yet, and I am going to use a phrase I dont very often .... I agree with SMEE !!!!

[SMEE]

I agree with SMEE !!!!

So...there IS intelligent lifeforms on here

[Alex MacLeod]

I agree with SMEE !!!!

So...there IS intelligent lifeforms on here

I'm one of those.

[Yngwie]

When you concede 2 goals week in week out, it's hard to pick up points.

[Ronaldo]

We need an out and out striker and are deluding ourselves if we think we can progress without one.

[givmeaccccc]

This must be the third or fourth time I've said this but how on earth do we keep loosing so many goals when we are 'managed' by 2 ex International defenders? What on earth do they do in training? The problem I guess for the defenders is that they do not come up against strikers in training because we don't have any. Get Wyness and Dargo up here, just for the training, before we get cut adrift.

Where on earth is the bloke McKay who was taken on as a striker? We must win our next 2 games or we will be swoping places with that lot across the bridge.

Sorry about the rambling but I'm getting really worried.

[tm4tj]

you lot worry too much

the X=factor's on

[PullMyFinger]

I agree with SMEE !!!!

So...there IS intelligent lifeforms on here

There are, but you're not one of us.

[bauhaus]

Hey folks, I said a good while back that our season will really begin in December. No need to worry, as I had said if we can stay within touching distance with the rest, and get our injuries down then it will change in the month. Our injuries are clearing, just 2 or 3 out now, those back are getting fitter, and we now have a run of games throughout December and January where we can win. November was going to be very very difficult to get any points out of the 3 games, the media hyped good footballing Killie away, The we are all Neil Lennon bandwagon at home, and Jam tarts away. Thought we might just get one point out of the nine, but we got Three, and our goal difference stayed the same as the start of the month.

Now December brings St Mirren away, Dundee Utd home, Rangers Away, Aberdeen Home, Hibs away, and January has St Johnstone home, Mothers away, and Hearts and St Mirren both t home.

We will start to pick up points, our goals conceded will reduce, and we will get off the basement.

Have faith. Can also see Kilmarnock getting dragged back down towards the bottom soon, although I think Hibs will now improve enough. Between Pars, Dons and Killie for me to be rplaced by the caravan dwellers

[starchief]

If Aberdeen, Hibs, Motherwell or St Johnstone played Hearts at Tynecastle - would you say it was a major shock that Hearts narrowly won? It wouldn't even be a major shock if Hearts beat the Old Firm by the odd goal. Of course, it's disappointing to lose but let's keep some perspective.

[alternative maryhill]

If Aberdeen, Hibs, Motherwell or St Johnstone played Hearts at Tynecastle - would you say it was a major shock that Hearts narrowly won? It wouldn't even be a major shock if Hearts beat the Old Firm by the odd goal. Of course, it's disappointing to lose but let's keep some perspective.

I think this has been a pretty restrained and balanced discussion. No-one's having a meltdown or calling for the manager's head. I am asking myself the same question as the OP actually - will we manage to put a few results together this season? You're absolutely correct, of course, to say that there is never any disgrace in losing by one goal at Tynecastle, but the concern is that no matter who our opponents are (apart from Kilmarnock!) our weaknesses seem to be the same - not enough clear cut chances created or taken, despite decent possession, and too many soft goals conceded. The BBC stats from yesterday sum it up - 48% possession but only two shots on target to Hearts' twelve, and Yngwie is correct when he says that conceding an average of two goals per game is, by any measure of the last dozen years, relegation form. On the other hand, this defence, which finally seems to be Butcher's preferred line-up, is still only a few games in and might well continue to settle and improve, there seems to be no problme with the team's work rate or motivation,and through sheer tencacity Tade will get himself a few more goals over the season, so we might be OK. We've got to accept, though, that at the moment we look as likely to go down as anyone.

Edited November 27, 2011 by alternative maryhill

[ictbob]

I'm panicking there are to many similarities to the season we got relagated.we are playing well enough but shipping a shed load of goals plus we do have players coming back but as the winter sets in players are prone to get injured again.I just feel Terry cut to deep in the summer and now we are paying the price.

[SMEE]

When you concede 2 goals week in week out, it's hard to pick up points.

EXACTAMUNDO.....i was looking at the league table and realised how generous our usually stingy defence has been this season. EVEN tho we havent always been the best scorers in the league....we usually had a pretty impressive goals against record.

Is this the poorest defence we have ever had?

[tm4tj]

Since joining the SPL

season__GD___Home_______Away

04/05 GD -06 H(F23 A24) A(F18 A23)-8th

05/06 GD +13 H(F21 A21) A(F30 A17)-7th

06/07 GD -06 H(F25 A20) A(F17 A28)-8th

07/08 GD -11 H(F32 A28) A(F13 A19)-9th

08/09 GD -21 H(F18 A27) A(F19 A31)-Relegated

10/11 GD +08 H(F25 A24) A(F27 A20)-7th

11/12 GD -12 H(F08 A12) A(F12 A20)-Bottom so far after 16 games.

[caley100]

I cant understand how we have two international (ex) defenders as coach/manager and they cant sort out our defence????

Terry sounded very exasperated during the BBC interview yesterday, its although he's has no clue as how to sort the inconsistant performances that we are getting, its a wonder he still has a wee bit hair.

I hope we score 3 vs the feckin arabs next week as we will probably lose 2 goals.

:sad:

[AJS]

Defence is the biggest problem for me. That was supposed to be our strongest back four out there yesterday and they were feckin abysmal at times. We have no real competition either, our back four were poor yesterday but are defnitely capable of doing better but the likes of Proctor and Golobart are meant to be cover? Get a grip. The managment have to take the fall for this because Tokely and Esson aside this is Terry's defence mainly and it is clearly not up to scratch, i think it needs to be priority in January if the funds are there.

Alot of our success over recent years has come from having a solid foundation at the back and was never really tinkered with and when it was it usually proved to be our downfall in games. We are nearly 6 months into the season now on the back of wholesale changes and we still havent found that solid foundation and suprise suprise our main downfall has been poor defending.

[WYNESS101]

I hope we score 3 vs the feckin arabs next week as we will probably lose 2 goals.

I would love for us to score 3 against the arabs but it will be hard since we're playing St Mirren

[tm4tj]

[caley100]

I hope we score 3 vs the feckin arabs next week as we will probably lose 2 goals.

I would love for us to score 3 against the arabs but it will be hard since we're playing St Mirren

Aye aye... arabs, minks middens they're all the feckin same to me....

[Renegade]

I always remember a few seasons ago, in 2006/07 the defence essentially every week (bar the odd the occasion when McCaffery came in as cover and Golabek make one solitary appearance) was -

Brown*

Tokely Dods Munro Hastings

* - Obviously Fraser came in when Brown left.

That was the defensive line-up every week and was very similar to the one played the season before.....and the one before that (granted though Golabek featured more often in ICT's first two seasons in the SPL). There was great understanding and awareness there that came with the fact that it essentially was the same line up every week. IIRC outside of the Old Firm, that defence conceded the least amount of goals in the whole SPL that season.

This season the defence in the league has lined up as -

Meekings Tokely Hogg Gillet

Piermayr Tokely Aldred Gillet

Proctor Tokely Aldred Gillet

Piermayr Tokely Hogg Gillet

Piermayr Tokely Hogg Shinnie

Piermayr Hogg Golobart Shinnie

Tokely Hogg Golobart Shinnie

Piermayr Tokely Golobart Shinnie

Piermayr Tokely Proctor Shinnie

Meekings Tokely Proctor Gillet

So out of 16 games this season, there have been 10 different defensive line-ups. That's right, 10! Now there are many places on the park where changes could be made for the better, but of all the places you've gotta get right, you've got to get the defence right. We're now nearly up to Christmas and it's taken this long for Butcher to still make up his mind as what line-up is best, and he wonder why they're leaking goals left, right and centre? Obviously because of injuries and what not, changes sometimes have to be made, but 10 different changes?! Does he actually watch the training, and if he thinks that Proctor should be played as a centre-back then he obviously does not! Consistency is the answer and we had that when we had with a solid if unspectacular defender who'd been here for the best part of 10 years, though with Butcher's stupid decision in getting rid of him, we're a lot worse of.

[starchief]

A little unfair. Tokely and Hogg would have played every game, had they been available. Butcher hasn't willingly shifted around his defence. Injuries have forced him to.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Wow - a more balanced thread with a variety of important comments.

Irrespective of what anybody thinks this season has been influenced by decisions made at the end of last season, an apparent forgetfulness to look at the cover and the kind of player needed to fill in the holes, the most chaotic pre season in years and a frantic desperation at the start of the season to shore up the faults with loanees and "panic" signings. The back track on Hogg and the signings of Aldred, Tudor-Jones, Golobart and Mckay support that theory.

But, to be fair, to Terry and Mo, we then loose some of our more influential players to injury and that kind of disruption is hard to deal with. Add, sorry to say, some poor system choices and evident "favouritism" to the chosen few.

It doesnt matter how good a player / coach that you are - IMHO you cannot teach the art of central defending or striking to any player who does not have the "feel" in the first instance.

But the squad is creeping back to full strength, we have what looks like a more favourable end to the year and we have a feckin transfer window looming. We are probably very fortunate that we have not been jettisoned several points away from the bottom but we havent - and from what I have seen we are a better team than those around us. I think that we should hit a potential 13 points by the Scottish Cup game. The Arab game and the festive season are mega important to at least get off the bottom - which is very important from a psychological perspective.

And people keep on talking about Munro and Duncan - I do think that Munro would have made a difference but it is the type of repalcement player that we have not attained.