under 19s

[bauhaus]

First league win of the season against Aberdeen today. 2-1, well done boys, just the lift they have been needing

[kencar]

Is Liam Polworth playing just now? He seems to have disappeared

[Oddquine]

Is Liam Polworth playing just now? He seems to have disappeared

What do you mean disappeared? He hasn't disappeared any more than any of the rest of the under 19 squad has in the ICT frame of reference regarding being any part of the whole extended ICT set-up. He's still playing for them.as are all the rest.

[ICTPaisley]

Is Liam Polworth playing just now? He seems to have disappeared

What do you mean disappeared? He hasn't disappeared any more than any of the rest of the under 19 squad has in the ICT frame of reference regarding being any part of the whole extended ICT set-up. He's still playing for them.as are all the rest.

he means last season he was on the bench giving us all an idea he has something to offer, he even played for us. This season he has disappeared even though the team is in a shambles.

[kencar]

Is Liam Polworth playing just now? He seems to have disappeared

What do you mean disappeared? He hasn't disappeared any more than any of the rest of the under 19 squad has in the ICT frame of reference regarding being any part of the whole extended ICT set-up. He's still playing for them.as are all the rest.

Aye sorry poor choice of words. Just thought it was strange that he'd been in the match day squad several times a season or 2 ago and then despite us only naming 5 subs on occassions he hadn't been included

[caleyboy]

Personally I feel we put too much pressure on these kids to win and we tend to judge them all on results. We shouldn't forget that they are apprentices on a learning curve and clubs are guilty of sending too many of them to the scrap heap too early. It doesn't really matter that we beat Aberdeen what does matter is what did each player learn from the game and all the other games we have lost.

The important thing is how many of this squad has the potential to progress to the next level which unfortunately is the first team squad. The step up is too big so I would suggest considerstion be given to a national U21 or U23 level subsidised heavily by the SFA. The only alternative is to reatin those who have potential (a costly option to the club) and have an arrangement with Elgin and SHFL clubs for a season's loan to see if they can cope with the more physical game.

My feeling is that if the game continues on this route we, as a club with limited resources, will not be able to produce our own talent and we will always be dependent on short term loan deals. Will this take us forward and secure our prem league future?

[Renegade]

From what I've heard, there's a real lack of motivation in the U19s with some of the players not really caring, leaving those who are more dedicated and ambitious frustrated.

[caleyboy]

From what I've heard, there's a real lack of motivation in the U19s with some of the players not really caring, leaving those who are more dedicated and ambitious frustrated.

I find that dificult to believe as Duncan Shearer is about as good as we will get for this job. Maybe the results are getting to them - maybe the club is putting too much pressure on them to achieve results. If players are "not caring" then it shows we are wasting time and money on them. Skill is something which they can learn but if the attitude is wrong then they have no hope - they should be somewhere else.

[bauhaus]

I know injuries have played a part with the 19s this season also, Chubbs being one of those to suffer a long term dislocated shoulder, and was probably out for 4-5 months. Dont know if Liam Polworth has had any injuries, but cant recall him making any of the Scotland age squads this season.

Coming up from the various age groups, it is difficult for the 19s at all clubs, as it is a massive step. ICT have a small 19s squad, probably of about 16-17 players. When you see Rangers had something like 35 under 19s squad players, you realise the number of guys who wont make it at their clubs, as any year most clubs will be lucky to keep 2 or 3 going onto full time contracts. Last year, none of the 19s at ICT were offered a full time place in the 1st team, and most are now playing Highland League.

[Alex MacLeod]

The other thing to bear in mind is that a large number of our U-19's are barely past 16.

[ICTPaisley]

The other thing to bear in mind is that a large number of our U-19's are barely past 16.

Why do we have an U-19 squad of 16 year olds? Where are all of the 18,19 year olds in Inverness? There must be some out there, or are they all with County.

[FoolPhysio]

Personally I feel we put too much pressure on these kids to win and we tend to judge them all on results. We shouldn't forget that they are apprentices on a learning curve and clubs are guilty of sending too many of them to the scrap heap too early. It doesn't really matter that we beat Aberdeen what does matter is what did each player learn from the game and all the other games we have lost.

The important thing is how many of this squad has the potential to progress to the next level which unfortunately is the first team squad. The step up is too big so I would suggest considerstion be given to a national U21 or U23 level subsidised heavily by the SFA. The only alternative is to reatin those who have potential (a costly option to the club) and have an arrangement with Elgin and SHFL clubs for a season's loan to see if they can cope with the more physical game.

My feeling is that if the game continues on this route we, as a club with limited resources, will not be able to produce our own talent and we will always be dependent on short term loan deals. Will this take us forward and secure our prem league future?

Say what? Is that the same as the "it's not the winning, it's the taking part" mantra for perpetual losers?

Football, as a team sport, is about competition. I agree that not everyone can win the league or the cup, but they should be learning how to compete and not just kick a ball. If you go into a game thinking "it doesn't really matter if we beat them or not" then guess what? They'll get beat. If they go in thinking "we have the talent, the skill and the tactics to beat this opposition" then they are going in with the right attitude and they have a good chance of winning.

It is only in individual sports where the person can claim that they are seeking only to improve on their personal best or their ranking position, even if that means they come last in a race or fail to win the medal on the course. A team is, correctly, judged on their results and their league position.

If these lads are looking to take up professional football as a career, I am sure they will be very aware of the need to demonstrate competitive spirit. Otherwise they are just making up numbers.

[CaleyD]

The other thing to bear in mind is that a large number of our U-19's are barely past 16.

Why do we have an U-19 squad of 16 year olds? Where are all of the 18,19 year olds in Inverness? There must be some out there, or are they all with County.

I'm not sure what the actual ages of the lads are, but I do know that ICT have (for as long as I can remember) "suffered" from a situation whereby we play lads above their age group.

As far as I can tell there's two main reasons for that at the moment. The first being that we had to trim the U19's back to practically zero when we were relegated so lost a group. The second being that far too many are lost to other clubs who can offer more money etc.

Neither of those things is the fault of those involved with and/or running the U19's....it's just the way it is at present.

On the plus side it does allow the club more time to look at players playing as a unit....if players are getting 3 years together at U19 level, doing well and move up to first team then it should help hasten the transition period involved with settling into the first team squad.

[Alex MacLeod]

Was it not the case that the U-19 league only came about when the SPL decided to save clubs money by scrapping U-21 league? Up till then clubs would look to their youth system and select a few players they were willing to offer apprenticeships to. Those players were then developed over three or four years before being offered contracts to play U-21 and reserve league football. Because clubs had been aiming development towards U-21 and this league was suddenly removed they found, especially the lower budget clubs, that they only had a few players of each age between 16 and 19. The clubs want to promote and develop youths but there is a limit to how many apprentices we can afford to take on each year so there will always be this big age gap unless someone provides the funding to allow clubs to take on more apprentices.

Thats my understanding of the situation anyway.

[bauhaus]

under 19s league for SPL has been running for probably around 8 or 9 years. But this leaves a huge gap between 19s and first team level, so only the very best are offered full time, which in turn probably for most would mean 2 or 3 years training but not playing in the first team squad. 21s were likely stopped to cut the clubs wage bill, as you cant pay a fulltime player of 21 years old 100 quid a week.

Caley D was right with the relegation lost a two year age group, but it was the year they got promoted that they had a very young squad, and believe Ryan Christie may be the only 16 year old selected this year, as Liam Polworth was the previous season.

Im sure the coaches are told by the SPL/SFA that its enjoyment and taking part that matters, but show me a coach who would want to lose every week, they will want to win as much as the players do.

If you look at the spl website, and click under 19s you can get the historic tables, and this years. think our best years were when Rory was here, with Vigurs, Ross, Gav Morrison, and the lad now at Elgin.

[bauhaus]

Its also one of the problems of a 10 or 12 team league. Managers are under so much pressure to get results they are going to be unwilling to "blood" these players, hence the reason why a bigger league is better for the scottish game in general. Same will happen to the English in a few years, as the pressure of staying in the Premiership engulfs teams, and more foreign players end up playing, although those premiership teams also have more money to help them take youngsters on, although you now even see Uyd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc taking foreign kids for their 17s and 19s.

At the end of the day the best thing for a club would be a 17s, 19s, 21s and reserve league, but we dont have those money trees growing in Scotland, so what is the best level to concentrate on? 19s, 21s?

[caleyboy]

Its also one of the problems of a 10 or 12 team league. Managers are under so much pressure to get results they are going to be unwilling to "blood" these players, hence the reason why a bigger league is better for the scottish game in general. Same will happen to the English in a few years, as the pressure of staying in the Premiership engulfs teams, and more foreign players end up playing, although those premiership teams also have more money to help them take youngsters on, although you now even see Uyd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc taking foreign kids for their 17s and 19s.

At the end of the day the best thing for a club would be a 17s, 19s, 21s and reserve league, but we dont have those money trees growing in Scotland, so what is the best level to concentrate on? 19s, 21s?

Personally I would scrap U19 and replace with U21 with an allowance of 2 U23 players in any game. It would cost more but as I said in previous post, the SFA (not SPL) should heavily subsidise each club.

[+DoofersDad]

It is really difficult for the youngsters to advance without a reserve league. In the current set up either the kids get drafted straight into the first team (and probably only because first choice players are not available) or they go out on loan to SFL teams and away from the set up that is nurturing them. Both options can be difficult. A reserve league is a step up from the youth leagues and allows them to play alongside hardened pros in the twighlight of their careers. This teaches the youngsters so much about the game and prepares them much better for 1st team football.

In England even teams in the 5th and 6th tier of the non-league game have reserve and youth teams. I can't comment on the attitude that our youngsters have but not having a reserve team to aspire to can't help. The better youngsters may get into the first team squad but then never get a game whilst the next level simply have to look for a lower league club when they are too old for the youth team. With a reserve team the better players get the benefit of regular games at a good level whilst the "also rans " have something to aim for and it allows the late developers to come through. This is just another reason why Scottish football is going down the pan.

[Oddquine]

Second win of the season.......Killie u19s 2 ICT u19s 3.. They lost the last game at home against Killie 4-3.so maybe starting to gel.

But if next season the u19s are those born after 1/1/1994 (not sure how it works, tbh), at the least Jack Sutherland,Tom Smith, Martin Laing, Andy Greig and Calum Dingwall, that I am pretty sure of, will be too old...and it is likely to mean that many replacements from the under 17s to make up numbers..so back to square one?

I'm ambivalent re a reserve league or an under 21/23/25 or whatever league with some overage players as a staging post to give a level between u19 and first team football, so it is feasible for clubs to grow their own players,...though, as far as I know, the bounce games arranged sometimes for match fitness/practice for first team players have a proportion of under 19s participating....so I can't see why a reserve/under whatever age league wouldn't work much the same.......though a reserve league with no top age limits would likely be more useful re satisfying the need for match practice for peripheral/injured players and the need to blood under 19s. It is, after all, unlikely, at least in the short/medium term, we would ever have the equivalent of two signed teams of first team players plus first team bench warmers needing regular games....and I can't see more than the usual suspects managing to afford to sign that size of squad anyway, so most clubs would be in the same boat.

But then I don't know a lot about football...and I still haven't worked out if the powers that be in the SPL and SFA have any more insight re football than I do, as the commonsense and pragmatic approach seems never to be an option in their scheme of things.