Motherwell Ref

[CaleyTom]

is it me or was that one of the worst ref and lino ( main stand side)  we have has, we won but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IBM]

it's not jus you he was S***e

[djh222]

They're all sh*te!!

[AJS]

All officials ... sh*te

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Have you guys ever tried to referee a game of football? We need referees and should treat them with more respect. Just because Terry spends 90 minutes calling them muppets does not give us the right to boo them regularly. 

[HumbersideDude]

The players/managers also have to take a bit of responsibility. Players diving for free kicks and penalties, shouting for every throw in and corner that they know they haven't won, getting in refs face for most decisions, or groups of players surround ref after he gives a free kick/penalty.  Managers constant nit picking of every decision on TV/radio after the game.  If these things were to stop, the ref's would be under less pressure and probably get most decisions correct.

 Having said that, I still reserve the right to call the ref a w****r from time to time. 

[tm4tj]

Have you guys ever tried to referee a game of football? We need referees and should treat them with more respect. Just because Terry spends 90 minutes calling them muppets does not give us the right to boo them regularly. 

I'm afraid you have to earn respect, and you won't earn it by refereeing like that :yellowcard:

[Rainbow]

tm4tj, earn the respect yourself by becoming a ref. Then talk to me about it after refereeing for let's say 5 years.

That said, I've been one for more than 19 years, but as a site admin who gets to read all posts made you might already know that.

[+Fraz]

I do have some sympathy for officials as it's no doubt a difficult job and they are only human. However they choose to take up that responsibility and are VERY well paid for it (they got a pay raise this season did they not? Not many in the country can say that) they should be able to do their job to a high standard consistently. I think most people's frustrations also stem from the inability of referees to be allowed to explain certain decisions and also there seems to be no consequences for bad performances or decisions that can change the shape of a game. In addition they seem to be above any kind of critique from clubs who in some (not all) cases have good reason to do so. 

 

Case in point- linesman just this minute incorrectly flagged Celtic offside stopping them going up 2-1. What if County pip us to Europe due to that incorrect decision? Their mistakes can have far-reaching repercussions and they should be held accountable for that imo.

 

Gollum's performance yesterday was pitiful (as was the pathetic main stand linesman) and deserved any pelters he gets. Though I absolutely agree players swan diving and rolling about greeting like they've been shot etc are a joke too.

[tm4tj]

tm4tj, earn the respect yourself by becoming a ref. Then talk to me about it after refereeing for let's say 5 years.

That said, I've been one for more than 19 years, but as a site admin who gets to read all posts made you might already know that.

 

No thanks, I'm daft, but not that daft.

 

I agree with all the sentiments, but simply getting decisions wrong does not help their cause.

[CaleyThistle]

What Fraz said!

[+DoofersDad]

I agree with Fraz on this.  One accepts that decisions are made in an instant and at times it is well nigh impossible to be spot on, but the issue here is when there are obvious things which are missed and which can have huge implications for the clubs.  My case in point was the Watford Leeds game yesterday.  Had Watford won they would have got automatic promotion to the Premier Division but they lost and now it is the agony of the play offs.  Early in the first half Leeds played a long ball through but the Leeds forward chasing it was wrong side of the defender who was shielding the ball for the keeper to collect.  Seeing he was not going to get the ball, the Leeds lad gave the defender a nudge just as the keeper was coming which made the defender lose his balance and crash into his own keeper.  Both were injured and the keeper quite badly requiring a substitution.  The effect was the same as if the Leeds lad had deliberately charged into the keeper with his elbow or shoulder when clearly it would have been a straight red.  The referee was in a good position to see the push and should have sent him off - he didn't and I don't think the lad was even booked - but it was a cynically action which deserved red.  As a result, Leeds kept 11 men on the park when they should have had 10 and the reserve keeper was implicated in both of Leeds goals.  This is a case in point where the referee's failure to do his job properly may have cost a club several millions of pounds. 

 

We see far too many occasions when big decisions are badly wrong and when obvious fouls such as holding and shirt pulling are simply ignored.  Yes, it can be a very difficult job, but it is reasonable to expect that referees at the top level in the game get the more obvious decisions correct.

[bishbashbosh]

when i was about 17, long long ago i wandered over one night to watch a welfare game at the bught.

the ref had'nt turned up. i was asked if i would ref the game as each team would not let an official from the other team do it. no chance i said. come on mate we are ready to go, all you have to do is fouls, offside, we will supply a linesman each for throwins.

ok i said but any nonsense and i am off.

all went well for 20 mins or so and then a crunching tackle resulted in a punch up. everyone was so busy punching each other nobody noticed me legging it home.

10 years ago on holiday in ottawa i was watching my brother in law play in an over 40's league. i was asked to run a line, no offsides the ref would do that. it was the most difficult thing i did. hard enough to see if the ball was out nevermind who it hit last and which way the throw in was. and these guys were a bunch of duffers

i give ref's pelters most saturdays when decisions dont go our way.

but in the cool light of day it is a very difficult job and they have no way of getting all decisions right.

dont know how many times i have watched footie on tv and pundit will say offside how did he get that wrong, on slow replay the linesman was proved to be correct

my view ==== they do their best and all evens itself out over the year.

no referee = no game = simples

[Renegade]

I've seen tons of ICT officiated by Willie Collum yet I don't think I've ever seen him have a good game!

 

And I thought the ref's performance in Perth last week was bad, yesterday's display was even worse!

[Bluesman]

As well as the new youth development programme, maybe we should have a ref development school with better coaching and preparation for officials. Degree of difficulty, player acting and bad decisions aside, it makes such a huge difference to the standard of a game when a really good official is running it. How good is it when a ref lets a game flow or gives strong warnings instead of getting out the cards right away? When we're trying to get folk to attend, too often we see a good game ruined by a poor ref.

[Rainbow]

Bluesman, while your suggestion is very good, I think coaching and the like already exist, even in Scotland. One problem normal supporters do not realize is that the refs are told to issue cards quite freely by the rule boards, and some, if not most of the supervisors who watch nearly every match and give marks to the refs, will grade them down if they leave the card in the pocket when the supervisor wants to see one. The other way round, i.e. a yellow too much, will have next to no consequence on the mark.

[izzy]

Yesterday was a fine example of a ref getting it wrong at Dens Park .Ok they may have got relegated anyway but they could have had another chance to save the day ,not that I'm a Dundee fan but its bad enough being relegated (I remember the feeling well) but to go down because of a wrong decision is very hard to swallow. The Aberdeen player in question should be ashamed of himself especially as he is notorious for such dives as was shown on Sportscene last night .I do feel when there is such a strong case of downright cheating there should be some way of repercussions .This very poor decision has come at a very high cost to all these players ,and I don't agree that they lost it at the start of the season they made a great comeback ,and its not over till the fat lady sings..........and this fat lady has stopped singing ....end of rant

[Scotty]

some, if not most of the supervisors who watch nearly every match and give marks to the refs, will grade them down if they leave the card in the pocket when the supervisor wants to see one. The other way round, i.e. a yellow too much, will have next to no consequence on the mark.

 

I have heard this ..... so maybe we need to start with the supervisors !!! If the refs are too scared to make a 'common sense' decision for fear of being marked down then that is wrong. My favourite ref was Willie Young who - like almost all others - did have his moments, but basically told both sides "it's a man's game, get on with it..." and tried to ref using common sense, a word here, a word there, a bit of discretion, and cards when necessary.

 

Having said that, some referees are just no good and Mr Collum would fall into that category for me. He is not biased, nothing nefarious going on, just incompetent and that has been said by supporters of many many teams as well as media folk .......  if the supervisors cant see that, then maybe they need to be downgraded.

[CaleyTom]

And his punishment for such a poor ref  performance, he gets the cup final !

incredible

[Rainbow]

Scotty, two additional points of information: To become a supervisor at a certain level you have to be a former referee of the same level. I happen to know that e.g. Leslie Mottram was an UEFA supervisor for several years after his active career. The bigger problem is that they all get advised to be sharp with cards, both refs and supervisors. This advice is decided by the refereeing departments of SFA, UEFA, FIFA and all other national associations at the beginning of each new season, always adding one or two must-yellow and must-red offences. There's no official evidence, but the driving force behind it seem to be the TV stations again.

[Bluesman]

I didn't know that this was normal practice in terms of recommending being sharp with cards, almost card happy from the fans viewpoint. If it is TV that is behind this approach then that's the height of irony, as due to the massive TV coverage now, card decisions are endlessly debated and refs further slagged off - even when with reruns, no-one agrees (Man Utd in Champions league recently as a good example, when the guy got threats afterwards)

 

Most TV reporters and pundits still give credit to those refs who take a wee bit time with big card decisions, check with the other officials etc rather than having games hugely affected by 'could have gone either way' calls. Maybe TV companies want more controversial refereeing though as good for ratings?

 

It's ironic that right now in televised games, with instant reply available to thousands at home, in the pub, some in the crowd on mobiles and even for radio commentators in studios, the only person who can't have a quick second look is the referee.

[The Mantis]

Some people will know that if I can't get up to see ICT, my wee team is Whitehill Welfare in the EOSL. When we occasionally get a grade 1 ref like Willie Collum or Stevie O'Reilly, it's absolute luxury TBH. At these grounds you can hear their dialogue with the players and its obvious that they are far more competent than the usual grade 3 or (shudder) 4.

The exception is David Somers who has handled a good few ICT games in the past. He's pretty aloof and and just wants to be the main man, never mind whether he spoils the game.

A special mention for (recently demoted to grade 4) Paul Hanlon. A really decent bloke off the park but a total erse on it. Managers have to warn their players when he's in charge. Back in the autumn Whitehill under a new manager, had sorted out a few disciplinary issues and had gone 3 weeks without a single yellow. Enter Mr Hanlon, hey presto 6 bookings and a red, with the opposition reduced to 10 men as well.

An even more special mention for Willie Young who was speaking at a dinner I attended last year. Willie had a couple of years in the Ayrshire Juniors and got a bad knee injury. In his own words "since my own career had been ruined, I decided the next best thing was to ruin it for every other **** as well!"

[Rainbow]

Apologies if the British TV commentators are different, but in Germany most commentators nearly go nuts if not every wee foul is punished with a card. I happened to meet a former DSF commentator and now Sky Germany moderator who told me that he was very unhappy with this attitude (he had been a 4th tier player in his younger days) and agreed with my suggestion that all commentators should be sent to refereeing courses and have 10 youth games before getting a microphone. In Austria, the ORF (free TV) has a full day seminar on the rules and new focus points with the Vienna refereeing association a week before the start of the season which is compulsory for its commentators.

David Somers is still active? I met him during my year at Stirling University...