Sneck Courier Today

[Alex MacLeod]

Sneck Courier Today

Lots of positives in that article.

[CaleyD]

Time and again we hear the "If more fans came to games we could afford to spend more" line coming out of the stadium, and there's no doubt that is the case.  However, the blame for this cannot be placed squarely at the feet of the fans or the general population of Inverness.

The club need to be doing more to encourage people along instead of constantly having a pop in the press, lets see some initiatives that will put bums on seats instead of the same old 'no-brainer' statements.

[kencar]

I'd be sad to see Keogh get sent out on loan I think there are others who should be farmed out ahead of him. I think if he was fully fit he should be in the first team but he has had more than his fair share of injuries in the last couple of seasons  :007:

Of course a few months of regular football would probably do him the world of good.

Golly I'd love to see regain his form and his place I just don't see it happening though. Can see him leaving in the summer

As for the attendance problem I'm sure I read that Wigan in the Primership have halved there ticket prices for the next 7 home games due to dwindling gates.

I'm sure this has been discussed before but do the clubs have to charge a certain amount for SPL games? I've seen adult prices quoted from £18 upwards at various grounds? Couldn't the club offer Under-12's £10 entry or buy 2 full price concession get one free.  They are able to put prices up for the OF why not cheaper prices for the less glamorous ties??

[Scotty]

Time and again we hear the "If more fans came to games we could afford to spend more" line coming out of the stadium, and there's no doubt that is the case. 

Its amazing what you can find when you do a little digging or look up associated stats ........

If you take season 2005/06 - i.e. the last full season, and the one whose revenue we are now spending - the approximate figures add up as follows:

2005/06 average attendances (source = SPL website)

ICT:  5061

FALKIRK:  5515

difference = 454

If we take an arbitrary figure of £20.00 for the average ticket price, this means that 18 home games X an extra 454 fans = £163,440 more in additional revenue for Falkirk over the season.

HOWEVER

ICT finished 7th which represented a payout over the season of around £781,500 but FALKIRK finished 10th and got around £614,000 in SPL payouts .... a difference of around £167,500 in ICT's favour (source = various websites discussing new setanta deal when it was proposed)

Overall, taking these figures based on crowds/payouts into effect, ICT made a little over £4k more than Falkirk over the course of the season !!!!! Obviously, there is no allowance for stadium costs, wages, staff costs, transfers in/out or anything else in here so the figures are skewed to show only one portion of the equation but it does show that their isnt as big a gulf in finances because of the crowds as we would be led to believe.

2006/07

If I were CC, I would however be more worried about how much we will have at the end of this season - our average crowd is now 4798 (down 263 on last season) and Falkirk's is now 5695 (up 180 on last season) for a difference in Falkirk's favour of 897. Taking that number over the course of the season at the same figure of £20 would net Falkirk an additional £322,920 in revenue and with them two spots above us in the table, if the league were to end tomorrow, the difference when you add the sponsor's payouts / TV money would be closer to £480,000.

[+Gringo]

But we're going to win the Cup so.whaaaaa tae Falkirk.... :004:

Very interesting stat's all the same though.

[918loyal]

What nonsence Charlie is talking there.  Caley Thistle are the most expensive club to watch in the SPL.  £20 for a child ticket in the main stand is a disgrace.  Until the club sort out their ticket prices, the crowds won't be going up for a while Charlie...

The club need to be doing far more to encourage people along to home games.  Far more.  As far as I can see they are doing nothing to encorage more fans to come along.  

[davieB]

I agree with most of what's already been said.

It pisses me off when the club comes out with statements like this. It's seemingly obviously to everyone, bar those involved with the running of the club, that our ticket prices are an embarrassment. My brother and wee nephew came up on New Years Day, and I took them along to the St Mirren game. If I hadn't had the foresight to buy the tickets in advance I'd have been paying an extortianate £35 as opposed to the £22 I paid. The club having the cheek to complain that locals are not turning up when they're charging such prices is insulting.

I've said it, so have many others, time and time again......if the club want to attract more people along then set prices at a realistic level. It'd be far more profitable to sell off the 3000+ empty seats every home game for a nominal sum than to have those seats remain empty.

[Scotty]

The club need to look at maximising the utilisation of what they have in terms of seating and the costs associated with it ..... this is an area where looking at the pricing structure of North American sporting venues is valid

here is a quickly thought up plan .....

At its most basic level you have prime seats, standard seats, and cheap seats, and maybe family seats as a 4th category.

Prime Seats would be main stand sections C,D,E (upper and lower) which have the best overall views in the stadium as you can easily see the action at both ends.

Standard seats would be main stand sections B and F and most of the North and South Stands - not restricted view, but restricted in the sense that you only clearly see goalmouth action at your end.

Cheap seats would be main stand sections A and G (uncovered) and maybe the far corners of each part of north and south stands.

For Prime seats you charge full whack, with little or no discount for concessions, and you maybe throw in a couple of sweeteners like entry for a cup game or two or an invite to hospitality at the end of season where you get the buffet paid for but buy your own drink.

For Standard seats you charge a bit less and also make concessions available. You give season ticket holders in these seats first refusal at their seat for cup games but no freebies.

For Cheap seats you sell them on matchday only or maybe the day before and slash the prices - these are not the best seats and not worth 20 or 25 quid a pop.

For Family section you deep discount the overall cost and maintain it throughout the season. limited family seating in other areas of the stadium at the regular rate for that area less a % discount - lets families sit with pals if they want without being screwed for huge wads of cash.

[RiG]

I agree with Caley D as that is certainly how the article came across to me.

Lets take a little refresher here.

A family of 4 to watch the Rangers game will have spent, to sit in the Main Stand, something approaching £100. Yes it is somewhat more than Non OF games would cost but the fact is if you include food, drinks and a programme or two every 2 weeks (normally) a family would spend £100 to visit ICT.

Value for money? I don't think so.

The Cup games should have had lower prices but they didn't. I am aware of the difficulties that can occur when attempting to reduce admission (permission of the visiting club being one) but as we have seen in this country reduced ticket pricing works (see Motherwell and Falkirk last season) and Wigan this season.

[Scotty]

In addition to having prime, standard, and cheap seats in my earlier plan, I have always thought the club should also have 'flexible pricing' too.

You charge a certain amount for Rangers, Celtic, Aberdeen, Hearts or any other game where demand is high, but you charge less for lower demand games. It wouldnt be that difficult to work out prices for season tickets based on 'x' number of premium games and 'x' number of normal games for each of the three suggested sections, and then pricing for individual games can be set based on that without season ticket holders feeling the need to grumble at reduced prices when they paid full whack for season books because the lower rates are already built in. The club would then have a broad range of ticket prices to suit every budget.

.... my season ticket for Toronto FC has cost me $200 for minimum of 15 games with a potential for 5 more. In addition to this, I also get first refusal for my seat for the Youth World cup here in Canada later in the year ... pretty **** good I say. Toronto season tickets range from $200 up to $2000 for 'centre-line' and entry to individual games starts at only $10 ...... in a 'non-soccer' city, they have sold more than 6000 season tickets since October and most of those were before the names of the players were even known.

[RiG]

Personally I think Hearts have it spot on with their pricing

*Hearts Clicky*

[Joe DiMaggio]

I agree with most of what's already been said.

It pisses me off when the club comes out with statements like this. It's seemingly obviously to everyone, bar those involved with the running of the club, that our ticket prices are an embarrassment. My brother and wee nephew came up on New Years Day, and I took them along to the St Mirren game. If I hadn't had the foresight to buy the tickets in advance I'd have been paying an extortianate £35 as opposed to the £22 I paid. The club having the cheek to complain that locals are not turning up when they're charging such prices is insulting.

I've said it, so have many others, time and time again......if the club want to attract more people along then set prices at a realistic level. It'd be far more profitable to sell off the 3000+ empty seats every home game for a nominal sum than to have those seats remain empty.

I doubt even if we reduced the prices for say a game against motherwell to £5 and £2 that we would fill the stadium, maybe an increase of 500-1000 depending on advertising. People just cant be bothered going to games here even though they say they support Caley

I think ICT need to market themselfs as the 'Highland team' and try and draw support from further afield as well as maybe having busses running to games from different areas of the city.  I think that if there was a bus running from my area of the city and pick up points around the area then some more people would be tempted to go

[CaleyD]

We can discuss the good and bad ideas round in circles all day (and we have done on these forums ever since we got into the SPL).  It's the fact that the club have done NOTHING to try an entice more people through the gates that gets me.  If they had tried out some stuff and it hadn't worked, then fair enough, at least you could say they were trying, but they aren't.

I don't think our price increases for this season and the 5% drop in average home gate (to date) are just coincidental.  In fact, I would wager that if you did the maths taking into account money lost from those "missing" fans from programme, half time draw tickets, club merchandise sales etc then the price increase will have actually reduced income instead of increasing it - no point increasing prices by 2 or 3% if it's going to cost you 5% of your customers.

Even if you take the Main Stand out of the equation (as I believe it is all but sold out with Season Tickets) - The North Stand prices are still ludicrous, and so is the effort people have to make in order to benefit from the cheapest possible prices - the club should be making it as easy as possible for people to get the best possible deals, not vice-versa.  And with not having a City Centre ticket outlet, then it's not exactly convenient for people to nip in and buy tickets in advance to get best prices.

CC and players say that they want bigger crowds to be cheering the players on at home and this would possibly help improve performance - I say that they should be looking just as hard to the club to encourage that as they do to the fans.

[Joe DiMaggio]

We can discuss the good and bad ideas round in circles all day (and we have done on these forums ever since we got into the SPL).  It's the fact that the club have done NOTHING to try an entice more people through the gates that gets me.  If they had tried out some stuff and it hadn't worked, then fair enough, at least you could say they were trying, but they aren't.

I don't think our price increases for this season and the 5% drop in average home gate (to date) are just coincidental.  In fact, I would wager that if you did the maths taking into account money lost from those "missing" fans from programme, half time draw tickets, club merchandise sales etc then the price increase will have actually reduced income instead of increasing it - no point increasing prices by 2 or 3% if it's going to cost you 5% of your customers.

Even if you take the Main Stand out of the equation (as I believe it is all but sold out with Season Tickets) - The North Stand prices are still ludicrous, and so is the effort people have to make in order to benefit from the cheapest possible prices - the club should be making it as easy as possible for people to get the best possible deals, not vice-versa.  And with not having a City Centre ticket outlet, then it's not exactly convenient for people to nip in and buy tickets in advance to get best prices.

CC and players say that they want bigger crowds to be cheering the players on at home and this would possibly help improve performance - I say that they should be looking just as hard to the club to encourage that as they do to the fans.

Wouldnt say they've done nothing. they have had adverts in the courier and ive seen posters advertising games in pubs. They also put out adverts in polish to try to attract polish workers here to games

[Scotty]

Personally I think Hearts have it spot on with their pricing

*Hearts Clicky*

I tend to agree - maybe not the higher amounts, but the structure, which is pretty much exactly what I suggested above - didnt realise Hearts priced themselves this way  :022:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

It has been said before but we should categorise games with cheaper kids prices a must. Cannot believe that CC has shot homself in the feckin foot again. He goes for, albeit as I suggested an attacking 3-4-3 system - and all due praise to him and then he come back with more of his blame the feckin fans garbage.

[Scotty]

Your shaping up to be a good moderator IHE ... talking sense again, must be that high IQ  :004:

[ymip]

It may be an idea to sort ourt something as simple as procuring a ticket at the turnstyles before moaning at the apathetic stay away sneck public.  

I pitched up nice and early for the St. mirren game and spent about ten minutes in the p.issing rain shuttling between about five different main stand turnstyles, the somewhat misnamed ticket office (clueless) to no avail. I eventually sought the advice of a chief steward (about as much use as t.its on a nun) who asked me to let him know if I worked out how to get a ticket.

 

It was an utterly shambolic embarassment.  

I moan at folk to get off their ar.ses and go to the games but when you encounter such a shambles you wonder is it really worth the hassle.  

Sort it out Mr. Smith!

[Alex MacLeod]

Firstly, I posted this link in the hope of getting some discussion on the positive aspects of the article. Things like keeping players, but everyone has jumped on the pricing of tickets.

ymip, I arrived at the stadium at half two for St Mirren game, went into shop, which is also the ticket office, and purchased my two tickets with no problem whatsoever. I also know they were still selling at ten to three.

CC does  not have anything to do with pricing structure, thats for the Chief Exec and his team. We are not the most expensive but I do agree that we should have a pricing structure based on where we sit etc. Someone quoted Wigan prices. Yes they did half theirs. From ave £40 to ave £20 for the next seven games, only one of which is seen as a glamour match v Newcastle. I have friends who are Portsmouth fans and regularly pay £45 to watch their team. For the Chelsea's and Man U's they'd be lucky to get a ticket for under £60.

When drawing comparrisons with Falkirk people should bear in mind that quite a few very large Central Belt companies provide financial support to Falkirk. When next at their stadium look around at the advertising boards. Falkirk has been established for a lot of years and has a decent fanbase. Their figures went down when they got relegated but, as can be seen from this year compared to last, they are on the increase. In the season before they were relegated average gates were over 8000. If they survive this season then I can see them heading towards that again.

[ymip]

Alex,

I'm hardly going to make up the story.  I arrived about 2.30 and every single turnstyle in the main stand clearly stated 'ticket holders only' hence my fruitless trip to the ticket office. I spoke with a woman in said office who didn't have a scooby and sent me off none the wiser.  I did eventually find the magical pay gate but it was a pure pantomime performance from everyone I spoke to.

It's simply not good enough and needs to be addressed.

[Alex MacLeod]

Sorry to hear of your problems ymip. I was in the shop at that time and got my tickets from Tess no problem (first desk in the door on left). Even got my name printed on ticket.

[clacher_holiday2]

whoever said we should try attracting more fans from outwith inverness has the right idea, seen as folk in sneck dont seem to care enough.  if we had organised supporters clubs in nairn, ross-shire, forres etc then not only would travel to games be garunteed and cheap but it would also raise our profile in the wider north area, which may have an influence on the people of inverness.

i dont think its an unreasoonable target for us to find an extra 1500 fans for every home game, they exist out there but for whatever reason cant make every game, maybe we need to help arraning inner city travel to the ground from pubs or housing areas.  its actually kind of embarrassing when i speak to friends of mine down here in edinburgh (including hibs, hearts, celtic and dunfirmline fans) when talking about ict and that we've only got one supporters club, which does hardly anything to mobilise a support, hibs have got over 40 and can bring several buses from as far away as cork to 1 in 2 home games!

[clacher_holiday2]

...also if a fully fit liam keogh plays a single game away from inverness then its a total outrage and an unforgivable mistake by bennet/christie, especially as russel duncan is likely to start at least 10 more games this year!

if you dont want a midfielder who can make a challenge, keep pace for 90 minute and give you a threat going forward, then stick with duncan  :022:

[Scotty]

I am going to be quite critical here and it pains me to do so. I have the club in my heart, I am 100% behind the management team, and think we have a lot of good people at the stadium. However, I think the fans are being blamed not only for shortcomings that we do have but also some of the club's own failings.

Some people may agree with me, some may disagree. Some at the club will probably be furious that I have the audacity to criticise anything about the club but after too many years sitting on the fence when running the official site, it is quite cathartic to be able to express myself about my concerns.

Firstly, I posted this link in the hope of getting some discussion on the positive aspects of the article. Things like keeping players, but everyone has jumped on the pricing of tickets.

There were positives in the article Alex and I am happy that CC is determined to try and keep our best players ... however, the undercurrent seems to be that if he cant then it is the fault of stay-away fans.

This is an oft quoted excuse that has been trotted out far too regularly in our short history and it is no more valid now than it ever was. Only once was it perhaps valid and that was when we were in deep financial doo-doo before David Sutherland's intervention and if you look up my name in the index of Ian Broadfoot's book you will see I actually tried to put something in place when it was actually true.

I agree that we can/should all do our bit to try and get more people along but the club should also be proactively and visibly doing something to try and entice 'occasional' fans to come and see more games. Pricing is an obvious area for scrutiny and that has been talked about extensively in this thread, but the overall 'experience', and the club's 'presence' also needs to be looked at and we as fans can do very little about that other than raise the issues.

experience: Is it fun to wait in a traffic jam on the way to the stadium, then queue to get in, or to have apparent confusion over the purchasing of tickets when you get there ? [note: I dont disbelieve ymip, but I agree with you that Tess and Andrina are usually hyper efficient so maybe it wasnt them in the ticket office when Ymip went in]. Once you get in is it fun to be confronted with [at times] over-officious and inconsistent stewarding, beverages and food that can only be described as mediocre at best and queues for them that mean you have to miss 10 minutes of the game you paid to see by going to get them well before (or after) half-time. Finally, after the game, you then have to endure the nightmare that is getting out of the car park and back into town ... something that has been raised for years and years as an issue with fans. If I were a neutral, none of this would encourage me to keep returning, although as a diehard I did put up with it for many years. None of this is CC's fault and he probably cant have any effect on any of it, but its as valid an excuse for people not coming as blaming the fans themselves ..... you have to make them 'want' to come, not to expect it without making an effort.

presence: Does the club actually have one ? Of course it does with us - the diehards - but other than [once?] sending out a few flyers to the Polish community and sticking a few posters up in selected pubs where is the club's presence in the town ? the TCS is not the easiest place to get to if you dont have your own transport so its not exactly going to pick up a lot of passing trade and those without any transport probably wont bother even if they want to. If charities/small businesses can succesfully operate retail units in the town centre, then what is stopping the club from doing the same ... sell tickets, sell merchandise without giving part of the profits to a 3rd party, get flyers in the tourist information places advertising games in various languages not just Polish, get players into schools instead of the golf course, and FFS stop playing the club down. I am 100% behind Charlie but he needs a new scriptwriter ... stop the references to a "club of our size" and other small town / small club / meagre resource comments. It may be true in part, but we are an SPL club with a 7 figure turnover employing quite a large number of people now both part and full time and this kind of talk is not going to promote the club to neutrals or those who might fancy seeing a game from time to time. I also doubt whether it has a positive effect on players who, for the most part, have performed fantastically well since we reached the SPL.

I am realistic, I know we have scant resources when compared to some clubs and that we have come a huge way in a very short time without ever tasting the bad times which will surely come sometime. I am also as guilty as anyone else of expecting us to finish in the top 6, win the cup, qualify for Europe etc. etc. etc. so I dont mind being slapped down every once in a while when my expectations get out of hand, but its not needed every week.

CC does  not have anything to do with pricing structure, thats for the Chief Exec and his team. We are not the most expensive but I do agree that we should have a pricing structure based on where we sit etc.

agreed.

When drawing comparrisons with Falkirk people should bear in mind that quite a few very large Central Belt companies provide financial support to Falkirk. When next at their stadium look around at the advertising boards. Falkirk has been established for a lot of years and has a decent fanbase.

Not sure if its still the case but in lower division days (3, 2, & 1) Caley Thistle were reputed to have more advertising boards than any other team in the division .......

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

We should ask Easyjet to give us sponsorhip purely by giving us a link. One Touch to your ICT Tickets.