Calling The Residents Of Inverness

[12th Man]

I well imagine that there are just as many Arbroath fans living in Dundee than there are Arbroath fans living in Arbroath.

I cant blame people want to move out of the village and live in a city, unless your one of  Smees facebook friends

[Alex MacLeod]

The Bught is a public amenity and as such should always stay that way. For too long now bits of public amenity sites have been sold off to private development to the detriment of safe recreational activity for our youngsters. To all those who'd like a move to there I ask this: Would you be happy if HC decided to sell part of it to a supermarket of housing developer? Both of these are private, profit making enterprises just like ICT.

 

The Bught should and will never happen. There may be other areas in the industrial belt that could be flattened and utilised but where does the money come from. We'd get nothing for selling the current site because we dont own it. We lease the site. We lease the stadium. So how do we raise the likely £10 million or so?

 

Too many people use the stadium etc as the reason for low turnouts. Not so. The whole Scottish football scene is the problem. People have stayed away because of the Rangers fiasco. People have stayed away because of the OF bias. People may even be staying away because Hibs and Hearts are no longer in the top league. The big thing though is that people are no longer spending money at opposition clubs. Travelling numbers are down. St Mirren posted accounts yesterday and stated their ST sales and gate reciepts are down. Ten years ago it was impossible to get an ST for Celtic. Now their stadium is full of empty seats. Every club is suffering. There is more incentives not to follow football than there is to follow nowadays. Many people want nothing but 3pm on Saturday. Many people want the standing and alcohol restrictions removed. Many people want to go to a game and have an enjoyable day out. They dont want the hassles associated with it. Get rid of the stupid all seater criteria. Get rid of the over zealous stewarding. Get rid of the rules and regulations and the cocking the forelock to TV attitude. Get rid of the bias reporting. Make the game a level playing field for all teams. Get rid of the highly paid players and the ludicrous transfer fees. Play the game at more sensible time of year. Make the game more affordable. Sort all that and the numbers will rise again.

 

I haven't been to a game so far this season (apart from Birmingham) partly because I've been out of the country, partly because other things have prevented me attending but mainly because I'm finding it harder and harder to motivate myself into making the journey.

[Charles Bannerman]

I used to see quite a lot of ex Caley fans from highland league days going into the jailend. my facebook probably has more ex caley fans, who didnt like the merger,t than it has icT fans

Yes, probably at least 4000 of the 400 who used on average latterly to go to Telford Street.

[ICTRoughi]

I personally think that the Premiership would benefit a similar schedule seen in Ireland and Sweden etc. (Summer Football) I personally feel that if we adopted that schedule then people may be more willing to go to the games at TCS and other grounds. If you look at the champions league/Europa league qualifiers and some of the teams are streets ahead of teams like Scottish teams for example. Why? because purely they are fitter at that time because they are half way through a season and we are just back from a 3/4 week holiday. If we adopted summer football would Scottish teams perform better in Europe - without a doubt.

Another cause of drop in attendence would also be the repetitiveness of the league but Uncle Roy didn't want his team to go down which will probably happen this year.

Edited November 27, 2014 by ICTRoughi

[Renegade]

I personally think that the Premiership would benefit a similar schedule seen in Ireland and Swenden etc. (Summer Football) I personally feel that if we adopted that schedule then people may be more willing to go to the games at TCS and other grounds. 

 

I think that's a very good point.  When it comes to the stadium's openness and it's battering from the wind and rain for months of the season, that would be probably almost entirely diminished if we had summer football.  I reckon as well, you'd see a bigger away crowds, because travelling (especially up from the central belt) would be a far more worthwhile and safer experience in July than it would be in January.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Renegade

[Scotty]

just watch out for that sunstroke though ... its a bugger !!!  (seriously! I got sunstroke at a Toronto game a couple of years ago and it was not pleasant!) ...... I have sat at the TCS in the past when the weather was glorious and all those negative points about the open-ness, proximity to the water etc that are extremely relevant in winter can definitely be a plus point on a summer day. A standing section, a relaxation of the alcohol rules, a sunny warm day in July with the dolphins in the firth majestically waving their scarves ( ) and Yogi's team playing beautiful football ... who needs the Bught !!! 

 

With the exception of the scenery and the dolphins, it sounds very like my TFC experience .... MLS runs from March until October/November (although if you are Toronto, that usually means September as we miss the playoffs every year). There are plenty of plusses to this and very few negatives. Summer football suits the likes of Toronto, Montreal, Colorado, New York etc where there is significant dodgy weather in winter but the likes of Dallas, Houston, LA, Chivas and new team Orlando could argue the same about Summer where the temperatures can be really high .. heck, even Toronto can get high temps ... but none of these cities would be comparable to the temperatures being faced for the 2022 WC in Qatar where FIFA might switch to a winter cup forcing some leagues to a summer season for at least one year . Overall it was an adjustment for me as a fan used to winter football, but once you get used to it, its definitely a good thing. 

 

Another potential benefit for the league in switching to summer football might be in terms of sponsorship or media coverage. We cannot compete with the English Premiership but if we are playing in summer and they stay to a winter schedule might SKY or others be more interested in the SPFL as it would mean they could have live football from the UK 52 weeks of the year ..... same applies to selling the games or the rights for broadcast outside the UK. Say what you like about the quality of MLS (its better than many folk think, thats all I will say), one thing is that the league IS achieving is increasing the interest in the game in North America exponentially and that was very visible during the last world cup with the support for the US team. With the addition of Orlando FC and New York City FC (owned 50/50 by the NY Yankees and Man City) that brings the league up to 20 for next year. Atlanta, LA(2) [replacing chivas who folded this year], and Miami are due to come into the league in the next couple of years and talks are underway with Las Vegas, Sacramento, Minneapolis, Austin, San Antonio and St Louis. The MLS has now surpassed both the NBA (basketball) and the NHL (ice hockey) in terms of overall attendance over a season and last year the league negotiated a new $90m a year TV deal with ESPN/FOX (previous deal was $18m) and also became profitable for the first time (previously only 3 teams were profitable - NY, LA and Toronto).

 

I cant speak for other teams but I know many of my fellow fans in Toronto and they have a voracious appetite for "soccer". The EPL is of course the #1 league but La Liga, Bundesliga, Serie A etc are all up there in terms of having a following and some TV time .... not the SPL or SPFL though as its shunted off to some obscure channel that very few people pay for,  When the season is underway, many of my fellow fans get a little unhappy that there is no Premiership or other football for most of the MLS season as the time zones tend to work for us when the EPL is on ... you get your 10AM (3pm UK) game on telly with the feed straight from the UK broadcaster, it goes until 12 noon then you head to the pub to watch the 12:30 game (5:30 UK) and then to the TFC game that kicks off at 4pm (9PM UK) .... might a switch to summer football allow the UK broadcasters to tap into that market and the money the networks are willing to pay for the games, and by default allow the SPFL to increase the marketability and profitability of its own league .... ?      

[Huisdean]

 

Don't blame the stadium or the cold or the pies. Be honest if you are a football supporter get off your backside and go and support the team. They are playing good football , second in the top league, what more do you want? Here is a fact : Ross County have 700+ supporters with an Inverness address.

  That will the caravan park then

[Row S]

Look at St Johnstone's home crowds against teams outside Celtic, Aberdeen or the Dundee teams. 2,000 - 2,500 is their norm and that is after winning the Scottish Cup and taking 14,000 to the final. Difficult to explain that and in a stadium that is close to the A9/A90, has local bus services passing it, is within an hour of most other Premiership clubs and is not in a cold seaside location.

 

If our stadium was to be relocated there is plenty of development land about to be confirmed in the Local Development Plan between the UHI Campus, Stratton Farm and Cradlehall (as 12th Man says above). Once this is linked by the proposed A9/96 road and foot/cycle paths through the area it will help maximise accessibility from the surroundings and to both trunk roads. There is also scope for a rail halt on the Perth line close by. It may be another 5 + years before all that starts to happen but now is the time to plan ahead and put in a claim before it's all taken up by house builders and a business park.

 

I should also point out that 10-15 years of upgrading the A9 will lengthen the journey for away fans traveling north and, with regard to switching to summer football, the A9 is also much busier during weekends in the summer.

 

In the more immediate future therefore it seems that the initiatives the club are trying and more persistent persuasion by existing fans coupled with the team continuing to excel at the top end of the league are our best hopes of boosting attendances. However, it would help a bit if all clubs and the SPFL agreed to reduce admission prices.

Edited November 27, 2014 by Row S

[Scarlet Pimple]

Sunstroke is  brutal all right. Many years ago I was down in Oregon State in the USA and  was out on the beach at midday. By evening I was delirious and either shivering or breaking out in sweats. Headache too.

 

Ruined the weekend  completely. Oregon is on a latitude with, say, Marseilles or something,. with Vancouver, B.C. on a line with Paris, France. Didn't take that into account and paid the price.

 

Glad to see support is growing for Summer football  then. It could save a few teams from financial disaster.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Charlie Bannerman in shock merger related response !!!!

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Charlie Bannerman in shock merger related response !!!!

He seems obsessed !

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

From a psychological perspective it is common that peeple who were seen to believe in and are convinced that their perspectives are wholly correct adhere to that but hide their doubt by obsessionally attempting to deride any alternative suggestion, obsessionally surfing to see any alternatives are being posted. It is suggestive of doubt.

[dougal]

What on earth will it take to persuade you to take a trip to the Longman on a Saturday afternoon ?

 

I know football is a bit on the pricey side but ICT have consistently had the cheapest matchday experience in the top tier.

 

We had to wait over a century before the Scottish League let us join their exclusive little club but now boast the second most successful team in the entire land playing attractive football and unbeaten at home all season.

 

The population of Inverness and surrounding area is at record levels. Surely surely you could abandon the Retail  Park and back our local heroes with more than our loyal core of a paltry two and a half thousand. We used to get those sort of crowds for routine Inverness derbies in the Highland League when the population of the town was not much more than half what it is now.

The phrase "You reap what you Sow" springs to mind

Dougal

[Sneckboy]

Look at St Johnstone's home crowds against teams outside Celtic, Aberdeen or the Dundee teams. 2,000 - 2,500 is their norm and that is after winning the Scottish Cup and taking 14,000 to the final. Difficult to explain that and in a stadium that is close to the A9/A90, has local bus services passing it, is within an hour of most other Premiership clubs and is not in a cold seaside location.

 

 

Yeah, their last few home crowds have been 2,800 and 2,500 but they've had the 'benefit' of games against Celtic, Aberdeen and Dundee which has helped boost their average for this season - so far.

Looking at last season's averages against this seasons, St Johnstone will doubtless claim that they've successfully retained some of the 'cup final fans' - but it would be fairer to examine the stats at the end of the season.

 

Rounded to two significant figures, for clarity, the 10 teams with comparable records to last season are below.

Partick Thistle seem to be experiencing second season novelty drop-off, and Motherwell's poor season looks to have had an impact at the gate. But, early days!

 

[Joe DiMaggio]

There is plenty space at the Bucht as we all know (see attached jpeg with stadium and parking translated onto it).  An exact replica of our stadium and parking scenario would take up 1/3rd of the space at the Bucht as a whole.

 

Walking times to new stadium from:

1. Lochardil                        -    36min
2. Crown                            -    25min
3. Kinmylies                       -    38min
4. Milton of Leys                -    40min
5. Dalneigh                        -    20min
6. Culduthel                       -    37min
7. Hilton                             -    33min
8. Train Station/pubs         -    23min

 

Walking times to existing stadium from:

1. Lochardil              -    1hr16min
2. Crown                  -    40min
3. Kinmylies             -    49min
4. Milton of Leys      -    1hr5min
5. Dalneigh              -    46min
6. Culduthel             -    1hr16min
7. Hilton                   -    1hr2min
8. Train Station/pubs -  31min

 

It can clearly be seen that if the stadium was moved to the Bucht Park then folk could easily walk to the game and return on foot within the vast majority of the demographic of Inverness, whereas this is not possible with the current stadium where it is.  You have to make football easily accessible and as it stands the logistics prove it is not.

 

40 mins walk from Milton of Leys to Bught park! How fast do you walk!?

 

The Bught park idea would be a total nonstarter. The roads at the river side are far too narrow and slow moving. There would be gridlock on the other side coming through town. Would be a disaster.

[+roarer]

The phrase "You reap what you Sow" springs to mind

Dougal

[IBM]

 

There is plenty space at the Bucht as we all know (see attached jpeg with stadium and parking translated onto it).  An exact replica of our stadium and parking scenario would take up 1/3rd of the space at the Bucht as a whole.

 

Walking times to new stadium from:

1. Lochardil                        -    36min
2. Crown                            -    25min
3. Kinmylies                       -    38min
4. Milton of Leys                -    40min
5. Dalneigh                        -    20min
6. Culduthel                       -    37min
7. Hilton                             -    33min
8. Train Station/pubs         -    23min

 

Walking times to existing stadium from:

1. Lochardil              -    1hr16min
2. Crown                  -    40min
3. Kinmylies             -    49min
4. Milton of Leys      -    1hr5min
5. Dalneigh              -    46min
6. Culduthel             -    1hr16min
7. Hilton                   -    1hr2min
8. Train Station/pubs -  31min

 

It can clearly be seen that if the stadium was moved to the Bucht Park then folk could easily walk to the game and return on foot within the vast majority of the demographic of Inverness, whereas this is not possible with the current stadium where it is.  You have to make football easily accessible and as it stands the logistics prove it is not.

 

40 mins walk from Milton of Leys to Bught park! How fast do you walk!?

 

The Bught park idea would be a total nonstarter. The roads at the river side are far too narrow and slow moving. There would be gridlock on the other side coming through town. Would be a disaster.

 

40 mins-it is all downhill, 2 hours to walk home!

[Fanoffooty]

 

 

Folk are often saying ..oh i dont know how you can go to that cold stadium !

I always respond .. its not that bad if you wrap up .. hat scarf gloves , strap a hot water bottle to yourself if you have to !

Whats 90 minutes to go & support your local team !!

 

I've spent many a winter watching shinty in open fields without even any shelter , having a seat & roof is a luxury !!

Edited December 1, 2014 by Fanoffooty

[Charles Bannerman]

 

 

Rounded to two significant figures, for clarity, the 10 teams with comparable records to last season are below.

Partick Thistle seem to be experiencing second season novelty drop-off, and Motherwell's poor season looks to have had an impact at the gate. But, early days!

 

Attendance.jpg

 

Sneckboy, I'd be interested if you could point me in the direction of your source of these figures - not because I'm on a Wikipedia "citation needed" campaign but because this is an issue I'm currently looking at. Also, given that season 2014-15 is still incomplete, is there any danger of these figures being distorted by some clubs having had more crowdpulling visitors than others. I did see what you said about St. J.

 

(PS - I would have asked Dougal, but finding him among 6000 Caley Refuseniks in a blue phonebox on Telford Street might just be a bit tricky  )

[Sneckboy]

Absolutely. The figures are indeed 'transient' as the visits of certain clubs can hugely impact on the averages. We've still got a festive game against Aberdeen to come plus visits from County and Celtic.

I've used the database Soccerway for these results. I've cross-referenced random clubs' attendances (simply using my own arithmetic) and they always exactly tally - I'm confidence of the veracity of Soccerway's published figures.

 

 

http://uk.soccerway.com/national/scotland/premier-league/20142015/1st-phase/r25295/tables/?ICID=PL_3N_03

 

[Charles Bannerman]

Cheers Sneckboy.

[Sneckboy]

Cheers Sneckboy.

Charles, on checking that my link 'worked', I've noticed an error in my figures. (my 2013/14 figures are only for the pre-split fixtures).

I'll resolve it tomorrow!

[Charles Bannerman]

 

Cheers Sneckboy.

Charles, on checking that my link 'worked', I've noticed an error in my figures. (my 2013/14 figures are only for the pre-split fixtures).

I'll resolve it tomorrow!

 

I wouldn't imagine the difference would be huge for 2-3 home games out of 18-20 concentrated across other top 6 or other bottom 6 opponents - although in the case of, for instance, ICT and County, visits or otherwise of Celtic, Aberdeen or each other might tweak it a bit.

[Spotty]

A big part of the problem is that, due to Sky/BT & the like, there is so much exposure to football aside from our own. The kids in our street and surrounding areas are wearing Bayern, Real, Barca, premiership kits. Rarely do i see a Scottish shirt now. These kids and even older ones are watching champions league, premiership etc and then inevitably not bothered about going to watch an poorer product.

 

Also, giving the cost of sky, paying an additional £20+ is a deterrent for some folk. Just my opinion, but with no star power in the SPL, its hard to see the situation changing anytime soon.

[Charles Bannerman]

A big part of the problem is that, due to Sky/BT & the like, there is so much exposure to football aside from our own. The kids in our street and surrounding areas are wearing Bayern, Real, Barca, premiership kits. Rarely do i see a Scottish shirt now. These kids and even older ones are watching champions league, premiership etc and then inevitably not bothered about going to watch an poorer product.

 

Also, giving the cost of sky, paying an additional £20+ is a deterrent for some folk. Just my opinion, but with no star power in the SPL, its hard to see the situation changing anytime soon.

Spotty... you are not by any chance Scotty's adolescent love child, are you?

 

Seriously, though, I do think that there is a good point there. Globalisation may well be drawing more Scottish football followers into the European fold. Anecdotally, I think I saw progressively fewer Rangers and Celtic strips etc in evidence during my latter years in teaching and it may well be that Man U, Chelsea etc became a bit more evident - along with ICT I would have to say.