Conspiracy theory?

[Johnboy]

Both sides are to blame for the current situation and it began well before the initial attack and kidnapping by Hezbollah.

[Johnboy]

Hamish : I've no idea how long you've been in the US, or even if you are a US citizen, and intend remaining there....

Just out of curiosity, why do you suppose George W Bush took the decision to invade Iraq?

Do you, or did you think it was a good decision?

[Hamish]

Jonboy,

Please don't fall into the mistake of assuming that because someone lives in the US they are not aware of world politics, a Bush supporter or willing to accept everything Israel does. That is a very inaccurate stereotype. There are many people I know here who are VERY anti-Bush,  VERY anti-Iraq war (more so than British folk I'd say) and VERY aware of what's going on in the world. What the US has done over the past 5 years is an embarressment to a lot of Americans. But people need to have a balanced view of things and saying that the current situation is ALL the fault of Israel is very innaccurate. To reiterate though, I am NOT in support of the manner in which Israel have responded but neither am I of Hezbollah's terrorist tactics (and no matter how you look at it, they are terrorists).

[Scotty]

In fact it began in 1948 with the founding of the State of Israel, and the still on going process of squeezing Palestinians from what was their land

I am not going to comment much on this debate other than to agree with the quote above. The BBC also has a pretty decent timeline located here for those that didnt study 20th Century History/Politics : http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/03/v3_ip_timeline/html/1948.stm

Much debate here in Canada on both sides of the argument with an opinion poll released today showing 56% of Canadians think Israel had the right to respond in the way they did except in the province of Quebec where 56% disagree. It seems that the Canadian government also cannot agree on their stance with the Prime Minister stating that Israel had responded appropriately but the Foreign Affairs Minister (equiv to Foreign Secretary) stating that Israel should use more 'restraint'.

Its a nasty situation whichever viewpoint you hold and there are no winners ... only more and more innocent victims.

[Johnboy]

Scotty : There were pictures on TV news tonight showing a hysterical Beirut woman surrounded by death & destruction wailing that the Lebanon is being turned into another Iraq and the world doesn't give a ****.....  I'm not sure if that's true but Bush & Blairs' world certainly doesn't give a ****......

[Johnboy]

Hamish : I didn't say that "everyone in the US was a Bush supporter or willing to accept everything Israel does"

I have known quite a few Americans over quite a few years. What I will say is that when Bush & his cohorts decided to invade Iraq he had considerable support as he had sold the idea that Saddam Hussein was connected with 9/11 and was in possession of WMD. Now that that has been exposed as a big fat lie, grass roots support has turned against him....

My question to you was do you support the man or not?

[Hamish]

Johnboy,

I think from the tone of my posts it would be obvious that I am NOT a Bush supporter! But I don't think that George W. Bush the man is the real problem, it's the regime he's the figurehead of.

[Johnboy]

You maybe need to adjust your "tone" control - it is anything but obvious. So do you regard the likes of Cheney & Rumsfeld as being the real threat to world peace?

[Hamish]

You maybe need to adjust your "tone" control - it is anything but obvious. So do you regard the likes of Cheney & Rumsfeld as being the real threat to world peace?

You're mistaking my reserved tone for objectivity!  :001: And I absolutely think the likes of Cheney & Rumsfeld are a real threat to world peace - what sane and informed person doesn't?

[Johnboy]

You've become a "sane & informed person"..? When did this happen..??

[Hamish]

I don't understand, are you implying that Cheney & Rumsfeld are NOT a real threat to world peace?

[Hamish]

Look, I've got the Lord of the Tokers on my avatar, you've got to be nice to me!  :015:

[Johnboy]

I don't understand, are you implying that Cheney & Rumsfeld are NOT a real threat to world peace?

No, Cheney & Rumsfeld are a real threat to world peace all right... It's your tenuous links with sanity & information I'm not so sure about.....!!

[Hamish]

OK, could you quote me the bits I've written in this thread that would question my 'sanity & information'? I can't really see how you can perceive my posts as having taken anything but an objective viewpoint. Or do you subscribe to the increasingly popular paradigm of 'everything Israel does must be bad'? I'm not saying what they're doing is good or even appropriate (not by a long way) but I think your argument is a wee bit too biased the other way...

[Johnboy]

Hamish:  I'm not going to comment any further on this subject on here - it just upsets & depresses me so much that our respective governments not only condone this slaughter - they provide the weaponry for it.

If I sound biased against Israel then it's probably because I don't believe they should have occupied all that Palestinian territory way back in 1948 - it's time they gave some of it back.......

[Hamish]

There's nothing that you're saying that I disagree with. I just feel it's a very complex situation and not as simple as one side being the sole aggressor. It is quite ironic that in 1948 the British were not keen on the establishment of Israel...

[Johnboy]

There will be many, many more casualties amongst innocent men, women & children in Lebanon that there will ever be in Israel.... They've done nothing to deserve it.....

[Johnboy]

Hamish : Don't you think  Israel should be condemned for repeatedly targetting a UN observation post, until the observors were killed?

[Hamish]

Yes I do. Why would you think I wouldn't? I've never said Israel are justified in the specific actions they are undertaking.

[Johnboy]

Ah well, that's something....  Israel have been ignoring UN resolutions for more years than I can recall, but to blatantly attack them in this way beggars belief.... Still - this is what our governments support.....

[kaiser]

The UN is as much use as a chocolate fireguard ,  or the League Of Nations for that matter , which is one of the reasons the Israelis ride roughshod over it so much - another reason is because Israel is ( and i can't see a day in the near future when it won't be ) very strongly backed by the US , another country who pay so much attention to the UN....but to hit them with missiles, well that takes the biscuit especially when you take into account the cutting edge technology they have at their disposal with armaments and telecoms...what was it four times the UN obs guys told them to quit...oh well, fifth time lucky!!

[Scotty]

10 phonecalls in the space of 6 hours according to the news over here

[Johnboy]

And what have Bush & Blair had to say about this so far?

[Guest airbornejake]

I think its time to call a day to this. there are no winners but both sides doing what they believe is right . i dont think that becouse you loose less people you are suffering less.

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[Alex MacLeod]

Jake, are your views your own or are they the views that the military have brainwashed you with?

There has never been true peace in the middle east in over two thousand years and I dont suppose I'll ever see it in my lifetime. Israel, whether she's right or wrong, will always get western support simply because the Jewish people made America.

As for what is or isnt atrocities against innocent people, we the great british nation thought nothing of wiping out the innocent aboriginal peoples of the various countries we colonised around the world when it suited us so what right have we to critisise others.