Dee Day For Butcher?

[Harry Chibber]

18 games played, we are officially half way through the season and 12 points behind the leaders Dundee.

If we win, 9 points (although very difficult) is an achievable target when you take into consideration we play them on 2 more occasions before the end of the season. Not to mention the psychological affect it will have on us and them going into the new year

If we lose.... I'm not a pessimist but I can't see us making up a difference of 15 points in the remaining 18 games. 2 games against Dundee to reduce the deficit to 9 but we are still requiring 3 weekends where we take full points and Dundee take none... to put that in perspective, I think we had 2 weekends like that so far this season!!! In the meantime we would have to win every other remaining fixture.... not impossible but very very very unlikely

I think if we lose against Dundee Butcher needs to make his plans clear, he needs to commit himself to the club for another season or leave so our next manager has the transfer window to build a team for next year. I don't want to read Rafa Benitez type interviews every week where the manager is clearly in denial and still claiming he can win the league where there is an insurmountable* defecit

* big word for Christmas :)

[Harry Chibber]

... and if he draws pls refer to 'if we lose'

[Johnboy]

I think if we lose against Dundee Butcher needs to make his plans clear, he needs to commit himself to the club for another season or leave so our next manager has the transfer window to build a team for next year.

Leave?

Why?

His contract with ICT runs out at the end of the season, and whether we like it or not, he'll be here up until then.

[Harry Chibber]

Leave?

Why?

His contract with ICT runs out at the end of the season, and whether we like it or not, he'll be here up until then.

I can't imagine he'd have the brass neck to stay with no plans to see the team into the next season... with no goals achieved and no future at the club why would he stay???

[Johnboy]

Leave?

Why?

His contract with ICT runs out at the end of the season, and whether we like it or not, he'll be here up until then.

I can't imagine he'd have the brass neck to stay with no plans to see the team into the next season... with no goals achieved and no future at the club why would he stay???

He'll stay until the end of the season simply because he will be paid handsomely to do so.

If the club were to sack him now, they would have to pay him up until the end of the season.

Will their resources stretch to to that? I can't see it - especially considering the whole Marius saga has still to be resolved and paid for.

Anything less than 6 points from our next two games, will make the second half of this season very depressing indeed.

[Harry Chibber]

He'll stay until the end of the season simply because he will be paid handsomely to do so.

If the club were to sack him now, they would have to pay him up until the end of the season.

Will their resources stretch to to that? I can't see it - especially considering the whole Marius saga has still to be resolved and paid for.

Anything less than 6 points from our next two games, will make the second half of this season very depressing indeed.

I don't think the crowd will accept "I'm just here to collect a wage", if he doesn't reach his target and has no plans to stay next season.. he'll get booed off the park every game

[Johnboy]

He'll just swear back at them!

[Johnboy]

Seriously, the club gave him a vote of confidence with his contract.

He's going to insist on seeing it through, and trying to achieve as high a finish in the league as he can.

If he was to get us a 2nd or 3rd finish no doubt he will argue that he should have another season in the job.

[Harry Chibber]

Seriously, the club gave him a vote of confidence with his contract.

He's going to insist on seeing it through, and trying to achieve as high a finish in the league as he can.

If he was to get us a 2nd or 3rd finish no doubt he will argue that he should have another season in the job.

I'd probably accept a 2nd or 3rd finish if he is intending to stay and build for the future but at the moment he seems to be considering only this season or bust. If that's his attitude then anything but a win against Dundee is bust IMO

[Georgeios]

Seriously, the club gave him a vote of confidence with his contract.

He's going to insist on seeing it through, and trying to achieve as high a finish in the league as he can.

If he was to get us a 2nd or 3rd finish no doubt he will argue that he should have another season in the job.

I'd probably accept a 2nd or 3rd finish if he is intending to stay and build for the future but at the moment he seems to be considering only this season or bust. If that's his attitude then anything but a win against Dundee is bust IMO

I agree with that, and to be honest if he did get us in the top 3 then for the "love" of the club i'd hope if he stayed he'd take a massive drop in his superstar wages, so that could be used to shore up his top 3 side for an attack on the title next year, with I hope the likes of Hayes/Cox and that signing on the line for this too...

[MabawswaRichie]

The league is already over as far as we are concerned. As I said on the Dunfermline match thread - we are 12 points (4 wins) behind Dundee. To catch them they will have to lose at least another 4 games this season. They won't.

[TheKnowledge]

If we lose the next two games, at home, I reckon he'll walk. If we win both, we've got him until the end of the season. A point or two points, and the fans will be holding out the white handkerchiefs* and he may walk in that scenario as well. Incidentally, do you reckon if we all held up handkerchiefs* he would go? It must be a hard thing to take.

*my big Christmas big word

[Johnboy]

If we lose the next two games, at home, I reckon he'll walk. If we win both, we've got him until the end of the season. A point or two points, and the fans will be holding out the white handkerchiefs* and he may walk in that scenario as well. Incidentally, do you reckon if we all held up handkerchiefs* he would go? It must be a hard thing to take.

What do you mean by walk?

[starchief]

I doubt he'll walk. Infact, he probably will still think 'we can win this'. That's how these players reach the top. I would like it made clear whether he's staying or going though. We need long-term planning to get on a sound footing again.

[Harry Chibber]

If we lose the next two games, at home, I reckon he'll walk. If we win both, we've got him until the end of the season. A point or two points, and the fans will be holding out the white handkerchiefs* and he may walk in that scenario as well. Incidentally, do you reckon if we all held up handkerchiefs* he would go? It must be a hard thing to take.

What do you mean by walk?

:(

simple enough expression

someone 'walks' from a job, they leave of their own accord without severance payment

[Johnboy]

If we lose the next two games, at home, I reckon he'll walk. If we win both, we've got him until the end of the season. A point or two points, and the fans will be holding out the white handkerchiefs* and he may walk in that scenario as well. Incidentally, do you reckon if we all held up handkerchiefs* he would go? It must be a hard thing to take.

What do you mean by walk?

:(

simple enough expression

someone 'walks' from a job, they leave of their own accord without severance payment

In TB's case you're probably talking of around 50,000 squid or more....

Would you "walk" away from that kind of money?

[Harry Chibber]

In TB's case you're probably talking of around 50,000 squid or more....

Would you "walk" away from that kind of money?

If I was in Butcher's shoes... yes I would

[Johnboy]

In TB's case you're probably talking of around 50,000 squid or more....

Would you "walk" away from that kind of money?

If I was in Butcher's shoes... yes I would

And not forgetting perks like a company car, etc...

I've been as critical of TB as anyone else on here since we got relegated, but I certainly don't see him as a quitter.

[Harry Chibber]

In TB's case you're probably talking of around 50,000 squid or more....

Would you "walk" away from that kind of money?

If I was in Butcher's shoes... yes I would

And not forgetting perks like a company car, etc...

I've been as critical of TB as anyone else on here since we got relegated, but I certainly don't see him as a quitter.

You're missing the point.. he only seems to be interested in ICT if he can get us back in the spl this season. If he has already failed to get promotion then he isn't quitting he has just been unsuccessful.

If he turned to the fans after the Dundee game to say I have failed to get promotion this season but plan to build for next (i.e. confirming he is likely to stick around) I think most would accept that but if not he'd be as well leaving asap so we can move on.

[Alex MacLeod]

As things stand at the minute I doubt Butcher will be sacked. Nor will he walk. As long as there's a chance of winning the league that's what he'll endeavour to do. He now knows whats needed and he may even know one or two players who can come in and help him achieve it. There will be changes to the squad in january and after that we'll know what the chances of winning are. Meanwhile, by suggesting puting a few younger players out on loan, I believe he is looking to build in case Div 1 is the future. It is clear that we are operating to a very tight budget and those lads will be crucial to the next season.

[PullMyFinger]

In TB's case you're probably talking of around 50,000 squid or more....

Would you "walk" away from that kind of money?

If I was in Butcher's shoes... yes I would

And not forgetting perks like a company car, etc...

I've been as critical of TB as anyone else on here since we got relegated, but I certainly don't see him as a quitter.

You're missing the point.. he only seems to be interested in ICT if he can get us back in the spl this season. If he has already failed to get promotion then he isn't quitting he has just been unsuccessful.

If he turned to the fans after the Dundee game to say I have failed to get promotion this season but plan to build for next (i.e. confirming he is likely to stick around) I think most would accept that but if not he'd be as well leaving asap so we can move on.

"He's not a quitter, he's a loser." If he walks he is quitting, Rome wasn't built in a day. Know what I mean, Harry?

[DornochCaley]

In TB's case you're probably talking of around 50,000 squid or more....

Would you "walk" away from that kind of money?

If I was in Butcher's shoes... yes I would

And not forgetting perks like a company car, etc...

I've been as critical of TB as anyone else on here since we got relegated, but I certainly don't see him as a quitter.

You're missing the point.. he only seems to be interested in ICT if he can get us back in the spl this season. If he has already failed to get promotion then he isn't quitting he has just been unsuccessful.

If he turned to the fans after the Dundee game to say I have failed to get promotion this season but plan to build for next (i.e. confirming he is likely to stick around) I think most would accept that but if not he'd be as well leaving asap so we can move on.

"He's not a quitter, he's a loser." If he walks he is quitting, Rome wasn't built in a day. Know what I mean, Harry?

But we are not trying to build a Rome. We are just trying to build a team capible of finishing atleast top 3. Something it looks like we are incapible of doing.

[Renegade]

In TB's case you're probably talking of around 50,000 squid or more....

Would you "walk" away from that kind of money?

Actually, I've heard that Butcher's on double that every year.

[Johnboy]

In TB's case you're probably talking of around 50,000 squid or more....

Would you "walk" away from that kind of money?

Actually, I've heard that Butcher's on double that every year.

I was thinking around 100K per annum, hence 50K for the 6 months remaining on his contract.

Whatever it is, I doubt if the club is in a position to pay him off.... Even if they wanted to, which would be tantamount to admitting his appointment wasn't a very wise one.

[CaleyD]

Unfortunately I don't think we (ICT) have the luxury of being able to choose what will happen...one way or the other.

I suspect what little we had in the bank at the start of the season is all but gone and we won't be able to pay off one manager and appoint another. I also suspect that we'll see another round of cost cuts at the end of the season...and maybe even some in January...where the squad size will be cut as much as possible.

Whether we can afford anything other than a young unexperienced manager come the end of the season will very likely be another deciding factor on how things pan out. It's pretty unreasonable for us to expect people to stay, even if they would like too, when they can probably command a good bit more elsewhere.

This club is very much a victim of it's own poor decision making and management over the past 7 or 8 years and without some radical changes and major new sources of investment then any ideas we might have about appointing proven managers and players in the foreseeable future is pure folly.

We've no money in the bank, we've no assets to borrow against and our contract policy means that even our best players are worth very little in the transfer market. As a result we don't have the luxury of choice or decision making, so it matters not a jot what any of us want as we're very much relying on what card fate deals us next.