Gary Warren ?

[ICTPaisley]

Remember hissy's goal against QPR? Think we beat them 1-0 that day.

[The Mantis]

Nope.....you can see what you think is coming, maybe even hope what is coming perhaps, so you can add "I told you so" to your sig and preen....

That's just plain daft.

[+DoofersDad]

What folk are saying is that we should not get too excited about a player whose only full time football has been with a club that finished 19th in the conference and who, incidentally, has actually not signed for us yet. Terry may have unearthed a real gem and I am sure that if he signs we will all wish him well. But I don't think it is being negative at all to suggest that those who appear to think that this signing will be our ticket to European glory should tone down their expectations.

With regards to Tokely, he was 17 when he signed for us and we were in Division 3. There is no comparison. We are an SPL side and fans would like to think that one year we will have enough success to win a domestic trophy and get a shot at European football. Signing players from the lower reaches of the conference does not fill me with expectation that this success will come next season. That is not being negative, it is being realistic.

The manager will sign who he signs. Hopefully the new signings and those already here will gel into a good unit which will help bring the fans in and we can build from there. I will support the team whatever it is but reserve the right to voice my views on this forum and elsewhere if I feel the manager is not making decisions which are in the best interest of the club. I think that's a positive thing to do.

Sorry DD but that's not what posters have said. It hasn't been a case of "don't get too excited" but definitely more "he's not good enough".

Oddquine has very eloquently pointed this out and I'm certainly in her camp regarding giving these players a chance. Nobody's seen this guy play, but several posters claim he's not good enough - on what basis? OK he's a late starter, but that might just mean no-one's noticed him as he's not been in the shop window. Isn't that the same as the Hull striker Steve Bull, who hit the headlines with a late starting career - and then went on to play for England!

I'm with Oddquine. Give the new guys a chance, don't write them off before you've seen them play, and don't p*ss them off by writing negative drivel that they might read before they've played (or even signed).

Positivity can breed success, but negativity will certainly breed failure.

I think you need to go back over this thread and read the posts again. I think only KenCar said he wasn't good enough and if you read his post it is pretty clear he meant it not in a literal sense as he, like the rest of us, have not seen the lad play, but in the sense that in general we would not expect players playing in struggling conference sides to be what an SPL club is looking for. Read ICT Paisley's excellent post at number 68 for an example of a more considered view of the news.

And who is not for giving the boy a chance? It's not that people aren't prepared to give him a chance, it is just that some of us don't have unrealistic expectations of him. The lad himself has talked about the move being an opportunity to advance his career so I hardly think he is going to p*ssed off by supporters who wish him luck but feel he will have to prove himself. What may well p*ss him off is people such as yourself and Oddquine who seem to have such low expectations of what this club needs that he will be thinking he's taking a backwards step by coming here.

What I do agree with you is that positivity can breed success, but negativity will certainly breed failure. The question is who is being positive and who is being negative here? I explained in my post why not getting excited over Warren's potential signing is a positive stance to take. I can think of few things so negative as meekly accepting that signings of players with no particular track record from struggling conference sides is the future for an SPL side.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Davie Weir took a while to start his professional career.

[givmeaccccc]

So I hit a raw nerve then by suggesting that Gary Warren may be just a squad player. At the moment he is going to be a first pick as he has to cover roles that may have gone to Tokely (legend), Hogg (injured and may sign if a better offer doesn't come his way), Proctor (a great servant and uitility player, gone), Gillet (who knows where he is going but not ICT), Golabart (real promise but gone). So he's going to be a very busy bloke indeed.

To clear up any uncertainty I saw every home game last year plus a few away. It was misery by the way.

Nevertheless I will support ICT regardless and wish anyone pulling on the shirt all the best, why would you want anything else.

Finally how many times has TB seen the new boy play?

[Oddquine]

I would have replied in the same vein as DoofersDad so I'll spare you all that again.

Oddquine, look, I know there's moaners on here but I've also been accused of being a happy clapper at times so I must be getting something right. By all means have a go at the downright negative posters but people like me have sincerely held views and I try to justify my (realistic) views by what I've seen on the park, week in, week out. We pay our money and we have genuine concerns.

Instead of lumping us all together in your lectures which are getting longer each time, and consist mainly of asking us to have faith and everything will be fine, or accusing an entire support of being backward looking - try convincing me using football reasons. Mind you that could be difficult if you say you never saw Ross Tokely play any of his 490 matches? By extension you've hardly if ever seen ICT either then.

There are players who have come to ICT from lower leagues, and with no ICT inherited ethos.....Ross Tokely for one, who did well...to which about seven threads on this forum testify. Is anyone saying that the English Conference level of football is immeasurably worse than Highland League?

Big problem here, I think the point you're missing is so obvious. It's about more than talent. Pro football is a trade, just like plumbing or joinery. Apprentices serve their time and then are kept on or leave to find another club.

Unless the player is an exceptional talent he will not play in the SPL at 17- most players are in their mid 20s.

Ross debuted at 17 in div 3 and worked hard and continued to develop. Each time he has stepped up and continued to learn the game. So even if his legs have gone he has 7 years SPL experience.

Compare him to Richard Hastings who at 17 was tipped for great things but seemed to stop developing about the age of 21 as many folk here will tell you.

So as I said I will be delighted if Gary Warren proves people wrong at the age of 27 or whatever but I gave you plenty of examples where Butcher has got it wrong in the past.

So it's nothing to do with the HL being as good as the BSBP. Although back in 96 when Ross signed for ICT, the HL select WAS capable of giving the English equivalent a game, it was an annual fixture. Nowadays it would be no contest I reckon.

Not wanting to get into how good bad or indifferent Tokely is or was.......never having seen him play (to my knowledge.) I responded as I did on all threads purely based on the fact that he went to the media whining as soon as he was offered a contract which didn't suit him....or at least as soon as he could ensure he wouldn't be able to get an appropriate send off from the fans, because I have no idea how long he had already been thinking about it. Do you? Care to point me at any media whining from other ICT players who were not offered a contract which suited their opinion of their worth to the club? And care to point me at any other player who then on two other occasions went whining to the media to emphasise they were not given what they thought they deserved?

I'm not asking anyone to have faith and promising everything will be fine. I'm asking everyone to have faith and stop sodding assuming everything won't be fine based on a level of no knowledge and never having seen new signings play.

See, I can't attend first team ICT games at the moment, though I hope to in the future (Highland Council willing)......which is why I never give an opinion on their ability in the match threads or the various other threads devoted to trashing players (though in the latter I might comment on unrealistic expectations depending on the player being trashed)...because I have never seen them play and feel that this fact means I have nothing sensible to say because I would be posting from a position of no knowledge and feel I have no right to comment in that case.

Tbh. even if I was able to attend games, I'd likely be more inclined to put positional errors and mis-kicks down to pressure or bad luck rather than incompetence, not trying or being another Butcher failure, because I don't think anybody, regardless of their occupation, deliberately sets out on a job to fail...but that's just me.

Not sure if I said it on this thread or one of the others in which I have posted in the same vein, but this is the face that ICT presents to the world and it in general, doesn't give a particularly good impression. I have been reading the jailender forum on the Ross County site, and I don't think many posters on there are a lot better than on here. I'm referring in particular to the comments about Ross Tokely.....but they at least have been watching him and listening to him for 16 years, have seen him play and have formed their opinion over time, rightly or wrongly, not just on the back of a report in a paper.

[12th Man]

I would have replied in the same vein as DoofersDad so I'll spare you all that again.

Oddquine, look, I know there's moaners on here but I've also been accused of being a happy clapper at times so I must be getting something right. By all means have a go at the downright negative posters but people like me have sincerely held views and I try to justify my (realistic) views by what I've seen on the park, week in, week out. We pay our money and we have genuine concerns.

Instead of lumping us all together in your lectures which are getting longer each time, and consist mainly of asking us to have faith and everything will be fine, or accusing an entire support of being backward looking - try convincing me using football reasons. Mind you that could be difficult if you say you never saw Ross Tokely play any of his 490 matches? By extension you've hardly if ever seen ICT either then.

There are players who have come to ICT from lower leagues, and with no ICT inherited ethos.....Ross Tokely for one, who did well...to which about seven threads on this forum testify. Is anyone saying that the English Conference level of football is immeasurably worse than Highland League?

Big problem here, I think the point you're missing is so obvious. It's about more than talent. Pro football is a trade, just like plumbing or joinery. Apprentices serve their time and then are kept on or leave to find another club.

Unless the player is an exceptional talent he will not play in the SPL at 17- most players are in their mid 20s.

Ross debuted at 17 in div 3 and worked hard and continued to develop. Each time he has stepped up and continued to learn the game. So even if his legs have gone he has 7 years SPL experience.

Compare him to Richard Hastings who at 17 was tipped for great things but seemed to stop developing about the age of 21 as many folk here will tell you.

So as I said I will be delighted if Gary Warren proves people wrong at the age of 27 or whatever but I gave you plenty of examples where Butcher has got it wrong in the past.

So it's nothing to do with the HL being as good as the BSBP. Although back in 96 when Ross signed for ICT, the HL select WAS capable of giving the English equivalent a game, it was an annual fixture. Nowadays it would be no contest I reckon.

Not wanting to get into how good bad or indifferent Tokely is or was.......never having seen him play (to my knowledge.) I responded as I did on all threads purely based on the fact that he went to the media whining as soon as he was offered a contract which didn't suit him....or at least as soon as he could ensure he wouldn't be able to get an appropriate send off from the fans, because I have no idea how long he had already been thinking about it. Do you? Care to point me at any media whining from other ICT players who were not offered a contract which suited their opinion of their worth to the club? And care to point me at any other player who then on two other occasions went whining to the media to emphasise they were not given what they thought they deserved?

I'm not asking anyone to have faith and promising everything will be fine. I'm asking everyone to have faith and stop sodding assuming everything won't be fine based on a level of no knowledge and never having seen new signings play.

See, I can't attend first team ICT games at the moment, though I hope to in the future (Highland Council willing)......which is why I never give an opinion on their ability in the match threads or the various other threads devoted to trashing players (though in the latter I might comment on unrealistic expectations depending on the player being trashed)...because I have never seen them play and feel that this fact means I have nothing sensible to say because I would be posting from a position of no knowledge and feel I have no right to comment in that case.

Tbh. even if I was able to attend games, I'd likely be more inclined to put positional errors and mis-kicks down to pressure or bad luck rather than incompetence, not trying or being another Butcher failure, because I don't think anybody, regardless of their occupation, deliberately sets out on a job to fail...but that's just me.

Not sure if I said it on this thread or one of the others in which I have posted in the same vein, but this is the face that ICT presents to the world and it in general, doesn't give a particularly good impression. I have been reading the jailender forum on the Ross County site, and I don't think many posters on there are a lot better than on here. I'm referring in particular to the comments about Ross Tokely.....but they at least have been watching him and listening to him for 16 years, have seen him play and have formed their opinion over time, rightly or wrongly, not just on the back of a report in a paper.

Having seen Tokely play hundreds of times I can safely say that hes a no nonsense defender who just gets on with it, not one to overdramatize collisions, if he takes a knock you wouldnt even know and has been a great ambassador for the club. So I would imagine that hes feeling pretty hard done by to speak to the media.

None of us seem to know how much of a cut in wage was offered but if it was a 10-15% cut and you knew you were in your final year with a testimonial on offer would you accept. how low would it have to be to have to walk away.

[Alex MacLeod]

Tokely had his testimonial five years ago.

[The Mantis]

Having seen Tokely play hundreds of times I can safely say that hes a no nonsense defender who just gets on with it, not one to overdramatize collisions, if he takes a knock you wouldnt even know and has been a great ambassador for the club. So I would imagine that hes feeling pretty hard done by to speak to the media.

Not just that, I'm pretty sure he never went 'whining' to the media anyway. Everybody knows how it works. The reporter's looking for a story to fill a page so he rings Ross up. He puts enough words in his mouth and he agrees with some of them. Then he can write 'Tokes Blasts Tel!' Or 'Toke off Butcher!' or, er, OK you can tell I've never worked as a sub editor

Look at that Oddquine, about 70 words :lol: :lol:

[The Mantis]

Never seen such a load of sanctimonious crap as that C(o)unty thread BTW. It's a game of fitba FFS. One or two decent tackles and headers and they'll all be backtracking.

Edited June 13, 2012 by TheMantis
actually I have, but always from fans of the Midden

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Has he been reading some of these posts....

http://www.gazetteseries.co.uk/sport/9761150.Football__Warren_is_looking_to_impress_in_Scotland/

Summer signing #1 on a one year deal - as the club has stated hopefully a few more in the next few days....

[PullMyFinger]

How old was Brewster when he went full time? Mid to late twentys if I recollect correctly.

(Incidently did anyone notice he was caretaker manager for the final 6 games Crawley Town played and helped them get 11 points from 18, securing a place in League One without the need to play in the playoffs.)

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

To be fair I think that Brewster had inherited a winning team there althoughI bet that his fitness and diet regime had made a difference.

And back to topic - read the following two excerpts - to me that says that we are getting a player with real potential - one who WILL die for the shirt and has leadership qualities. look forward to seeing this guy in action.

January 6th 2012 :

Centre-half Warren was devastated by County’s 3-2 away defeat against bottom club Bath City in midweek and says: “We are deep in trouble near the foot of the table and only we can put that right.

“Nobody else is going to help us. We conceded three sloppy goals at Bath and that’s the story of our season, conceding stupid goals.

“Losing against Bath City was a massive blow. Now we go to Luton Town needing a win.

We have to show character, a bit more fight and hunger. That was a massive match in midweek and we failed. Now we have to stick together, work hard and do everything possible to get a run together.

“We keep saying we have enough quality to move away from trouble, but it’s no good talking.

“We have to show that on the pitch"

Newport boss Justin Edinburgh:

“He’s signed for the ex-England captain who, for my money, played in exactly the same manner Gary does,” said Edinburgh.

“Terry Butcher was a big, brave centre-back and a real leader. What better manager for Gary to play under?

“You look at the move really and think that it was written in the stars. They are like two peas in a pod.

“Gary will play at Celtic in front of 60,000 people next season and how many players can say they’ve done that?”

The move completes a whirlwind 12 months for Warren, who captained Great Britain to a silver medal at the World University Games in China before leading Newport to the FA Trophy final at Wembley and helping them stave off relegation in his first season since turning professional.

Warren had been linked with a move to League Two outfit Cheltenham Town, who had a £10,000 bid for him turned down last summer, but Edinburgh confirmed the rumours that Inverness have won the race for his signature are true.

“Gary Warren leaves the club with our best wishes and we want him to be a massive success up there, but personally speaking I’m disappointed,” he said.“I feel that Gary, even though he’s 27-years old, in football terms he’s more like 21 or 22. “I thought another year with us would be the best thing for his career, he’s only been a professional for one year.”

Out of interest does anyone know where he was born and what degree did he get at University.

[PaderbornCaley]

"GARY WARREN insists the chance of playing in “one of the best leagues in the world” was too hard to turn down."

When I read that, I thought he had changed his mind about coming to the SPL lol

[ubern]

BBC saying hes signed the famous ICT one year deal.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18524028?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[lukemackay]

I like that interview, it's great to see he likes it here and is relishing the challenge, this seems to be a positive move all around for me, and butcher seems to really rate him could be another gem.

[+DoofersDad]

After all the nonsense posted on here by some, it is good to hear that he has put pen to paper and the speculation can end. It sounds as though he has a good attitude and hopefully he will be a very useful addition to the squad. Welcome Gary and good luck.

[bdu98196]

Give the lad a chance, he may not be high profile or played for big clubs but he was captain of team GB at the World University Games - so clearly that must be a high level of amature/junior football probably much of it on a par with SFL. Until we see him play we cannot comment on his abilities at this level - I hope he turns out to do very well for us.

[Hiro]

Indeed, lets give the guy a chance. I think what people are forgetting is that he originally turned his back on football to go to Uni and get himself a decent education and not due to his ability. By the sounds of it he's got his head screwed on which can only be a positive influence around the place. Welcome to the glorious ICT Gary!