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MrCaleyjag

Dundee (A) - Sunday 28th July

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Well, how shocking was that?  Easy to blame Ridgers for his howler, but in truth Dundee could/should have scored  3 or 4.  Our long ball puts towards White were poorer than schoolboy stuff.  Our so-called play makers, Walsh and especially Doran created absolutely nothing.  Huge improvement needed if we are to make an early impression in the league .

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Any word on Sean Welsh? The sooner he's back the better. He is a massive upgrade on Tafford. 

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If Mark Ridgers hadn't chucked one in that was a stick on 0-0 but make no mistake, we were terrible.  Unless something changes this could be another season of grinding out draws. 

We really need Welsh back ASAP as 2 of Trafford, Vincent & Carson isn't good enough to get the ball to Doran & Walsh in good enough positions. Far too many hoofs up the park.

Disappointing to concede yet another goal originating from our right hand side. He might not be directly involved but all too often Brad McKay is beaten too easily or out of position.  Would like to see more of Roddy McGregor in that central position as there's a massive Liam Polworth shaped hole at the minute. Trafford, Carson and Vincent don't have the ability to drive forward with ball and pick passes in the final 3rd.

Edited by Hiro
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Am I the only one to see any glimpses of encouragement?

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Sounds like I was lucky I was unable to watch it!

I’m going to Tannadice next weekend so hopefully we are more accomplished there. 

Sounds like a poor goal to lose and too much route one tactics. Some bookings too.

Two years running we have known what we needed to do playing on the Sunday and have blown it live on tv. 

At least we are unlikely to get bids for players in the remainder of the transfer window if we were as bad as the comments imply. That said, I’m still worried we will see a bid for Donaldson in August. Hope I’m wrong  

 

Edited by Robert

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Well this is early season and we appear to be only just bonding into a new unit. Our defence today looked like they had never played together before and we know that they are far better than that. Walsh and Doran have not clicked. I like the look of Carson and he and Welsh could be a very effective central midfield. Todorov could be a really good signing but may suffer if kept as a back-up for White. We have a bunch of youngsters just waiting for a chance.

Are we fit enuff - No - and why not ?

Are we stuck tactically ? - Yes - and Robbo has to change the system - I can again see us winning far more away from home and losing vital points at home.

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53 minutes ago, tm4tj said:

Am I the only one to see any glimpses of encouragement?

Where? 😂

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All over the park. Plenty of effort, Keatings was prominent in the first half, McCart was solid in defence as per usual. Walsh and Doran were the big disappointments and Trafford was a liability, a booking waiting to happen. Ridgers lost a bad goal he won't be proud of. Vincent unfortunately slipped at their goal. Keatings could have scored but his shot cannoned of a guys head who happened to be lying on the ground. I'm not as despondent as everyone else appears to be or have we become sheep?

Dundee will be very wary of us and rightly so. I reckon we will finish above them in the league.

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Can't think of a single positive for ICT today. Dundee fully deserved their win. Rock solid at the back and plenty of good attacking play in the first half with McGowan defying his years and abysmal hairline to dominate the middle of the pitch and link well with Nelson and Johnson. Probably should have been up by more than one goal at halftime though I felt we had a couple of decent chances to get on the scoresheet. Second half was just rotten from us with Dundee easily holding us at bay. Meekings looked class. Still can't believe that we didn't get a penalty for what looked to be a clear foul on White but the way we were playing we probably would have missed it.

After three rotten performances in the group stage it's hard to argue that we deserved to go through to the next round. Clearly a lot of work still to be done to get the team firing on all cylinders but based on today's match it's hard not to say that Dundee are much better equipped for going up compared to ourselves.

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Probably everybody’s seen it all on the telly already but I just need to vent a bit as that was pretty dreadful. 

As one of the 134 I made up for Johndo’s absence by getting huckled by the stewards. The first half was pretty dire so I started cutting my nails with the Swiss Army knife and the cctv identified me as a threat to Laura Norda in Dundee.

Have to say Dundee were better than I expected and all the predictions of McPake getting sacked by Xmas look a bit silly now. He certainly did a number on Robbo. They only need 3 at the back since they’re all brick shithouses. That means he can commit 2 up front, Johnston and Nelson, with McGowan lying behind them. Meanwhile their 5 in midfield left us floundering for decent possession. Some of their movement and link up play was pretty good, but still our defence was coping well enough till the disaster of an opener. Interesting to see what might have happened if we had nicked a goal earlier.

With a total lack of room in midfield we were treated to the all too familiar sight of the back 4 humping it long to poor Jordan, who had very little to work on, but on the odd occasion he got possession he reverted to the traffic cone mode of early last season and big Forster had him in his pocket. For a big fellow he’s really not very good in the air.

I thought we might have come out fighting after half time, and to an extent we did, but it was the reverse of the first half with Dundee happy to sit in and hit on the counter. We might have nicked a draw but nobody really seemed to have any belief. The referee didn’t help and two or three decisions were bizarre.

Todorov is very good in the air and caused more bother in the 15 minutes or so than big Jordan, but I suppose Robbo has his reasons. Vincent was pretty ineffective, Doran had too many unforced errors and Walsh had a frustrating afternoon when his final ball went awol.

As forTrafford... well he started to show a bit towards the end of last season but today he was back to his usual headless chicken act and it seemed to me that Robbo took him off before he was sent off. His replacement Carson was very neat and tidy, a more energetic looking ginger version of Joe Chalmers and that’s the second time I’ve seen him in midfield and been impressed. Shame for Curry who was only on a few minutes and seemed to go over on his ankle. And how many times did our players slip? On to Tannadice and surely a better performance.

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3 hours ago, tm4tj said:

Am I the only one to see any glimpses of encouragement?

Yes! There was nothing to be proud of today poor all over the park 

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3 hours ago, tm4tj said:

Am I the only one to see any glimpses of encouragement?

I only watched it on the TV but I couldn't see any glimpses of encouragement at all. We can't pass. We can't create. We can't keep the ball. That was just painful to watch.

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Based on the Cove game and today a few observations:

The defence has been left exposed by the ineffective midfield.

Why Trafford and Vincent today. Vincent in centre midfield does not work - he needs to play the number 10 role or be on the bench.

Carson looks like a quality midfielder and once we have Welsh back I think we will win a lot of midfield battles, he needs a ball winner next to him and that is not Vincent.

Keatings has shown little desire to track back and we are not defending from the front.

Todorov has shown more desire and skill in the past two games as a sub than White and should start against Utd.

Macgregor was positive when he came on against Cove, yet didn't get on today 😕

I think we will have a good season, but we need to get back to basics. Defend from the front and playing football, not lumping it up to White and hoping for the best.

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I wonder if we're only now seeing the importance of Joe Chalmers and his positional discipline. The back 4 has been exposed throughout this competition and while there are issues there (Coll's been terrible, is Carlo finished?), there's also too much space in front of them. 

Here's a positive - we still haven't played a team that that's had a go at us. I think this front 4 will be decent away from home in the league whether it's White or Todorov that leads it. I love the way Keatings glides in front of his man - we haven't had a player like that for a while. 

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I missed the game on TV today but going by the reports on here it was a good thing.  I hope we play better next week against United!

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1 hour ago, TheMantis said:

As one of the 134 I made up for Johndo’s absence by getting huckled by the stewards. The first half was pretty dire so I started cutting my nails with the Swiss Army knife and the cctv identified me as a threat

Our only cutting edge today!

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That woeful performance would suggest that neither the players nor the management wanted to progress in this cup. As the last 16 draw went afterwards it could have been Aberdeen or The Rangers at home and a bit of much needed cash to boot. 

 

Why did Robbo wait so long to bring on all his subs? Why wasn't Roddy MacGregor one of them? We could have nicked a draw at the end if more positive changes had been made earlier. 

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Mentally some of our management and players, and some  supporters, underestimated the teams in our league. Having watched all four games live, I have to save yesterday's performance was very inept compared to our cup victory at Tannadice last year. Motivation yesterday seemed sadly lacking. Easy to criticise the referee but being off the pace yesterday lead to us repeatedly 'gently' pushing opposition players. Until we get up to speed to compete this tactic will be found out by referees. Whyte did appear to be fouled in the box but he needs to find his Tannadice cup form to show to referees he is not looking for fouls. Trafford was very lucky yesterday not to be sent off. Mark did make a rare error but against Peterhead he made repeated key saves in the second half to save us one point. Had he not read Megginson's Ian Stewart chip we would have been 3-1 down to Cove and taking a real beating. Yesterday the first sub was because of Trafford's repeated indiscipline. However,  after Carson came on and performed far better, Robbo seemed to wait an age to bring on Toddy. He also probably chose Curry because of his loan arrangement when supporters would have preferred McGregor. Curry added little before his injury. So on to Tannadice next week where two under achieving League Cup teams meet on the League season opener. There has to be a week of re-think, change and hunger within ICT. Even if we lose next week, we need far more effort.

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The thing that bugged me most yesterday was the substitutions. Todorov should of been brought on earlier. He made a real impact when he eventually came on. And I was really surprised young McGregor didn't come on. I've not seen all our games so far but the ones I have he looks far more dangerous than Curry. For me if we sign young loan players they have to be much better than what we have. Why stall the development of our young players and at the same time aid the development of another teams young players. It just doesn't make sense to me. 

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Well that was grim watching and I'm really struggling to take anything from the performance other than surely we can't be that inept again,? I didn't think either team was particularly impressive but at least if you're a Dundee fan you'd see signs of promise and some good foundations.

What bugs me the most is that we changed nothing, we made no tactical switch and Robbo unfortunately seems either incapable or afraid to change the system. I'd have accepted a defeat far better had we been trying something different and mixed it up a little but we didn't. Long balls pumped up high to a player who is taller when he stands up than when he jumps, I'm sorry Jordan I defended you a lot last season and yes the service was poor but you were bereft of any quality at all but also not alone.

Struggling in midfield we should have dropped Walsh and Doran deeper, tucked the FBs in a little, replaced White with Todorov and played Keatings off him. At least we may have had a chance of seeing if we were more solid or not. I mean our crosses were from deep so why not have them from that area by players who are paid to do that job anyway.

Yes we've lost Polworth and Chalmers but the nucleus of that team is the same yet we are all still seeing and coming on here reporting the same issues and problems, what are the coaching team actually working on with the players during the week? 

Whether we treat the League Cup as a serious competition or not, I'd expect some more application, some more innovation and for us to try something different. At least treat it as pre-season of old where we tried new formations, new styles of play, new link-ups and set pieces and gave younger players game time rather than this scared attitude towards losing that so many of the players seem to have.  

Onward and upwards as they say but a huge improvement is needed all round, this is not the type of league you can start slowly in as we all know too well.

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15 hours ago, Caley Stan said:

I wonder if we're only now seeing the importance of Joe Chalmers and his positional discipline. The back 4 has been exposed throughout this competition and while there are issues there (Coll's been terrible, is Carlo finished?), there's also too much space in front of them. 

Here's a positive - we still haven't played a team that that's had a go at us. I think this front 4 will be decent away from home in the league whether it's White or Todorov that leads it. I love the way Keatings glides in front of his man - we haven't had a player like that for a while. 

Is Coll 100% fit or still "recovering". Or were Mckay and Tremarco both told to be more defensive. Have to agree with comment about Chalmers but Welsh is the answer with Carson alongside. I would prefer to see Keatings in a more "Dargoesque" role.

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