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Jack Waddington

League restructure

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4 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

There is currently no plan for Livi to be on board with.  What they are on board with is their own proposal.

I don't like their proposal as it seems to do away with the play offs apart from potentially between the Championship and the Premiership.  The play-offs keep the season meaningful to the end of the season for several clubs.  I'm not sure why they would want to move away from that.

It make it fair again. The club finishing 4th has no right to be promoted. Second place  far deserves it due to their hard work over an entire season. 

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The two up two down could be replaced by a play off set up similar to now. 

Interesting that they would have both the Highland and Lowland Champions going up each year. We could quickly see the Highland League reduce in numbers as presumably most relegated teams would end up in the Lowland League. 

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6 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

There is currently no plan for Livi to be on board with.  What they are on board with is their own proposal.

I don't like their proposal as it seems to do away with the play offs apart from potentially between the Championship and the Premiership.  The play-offs keep the season meaningful to the end of the season for several clubs.  I'm not sure why they would want to move away from that.

Two automatic promotion / relegation spots at least gives certainty. The current system is heavily weighted in favour of the 11th placed top league team in that they get a bye to the final . As an alternative I'd go for straight semi finals / final which at least gives a level playing field.

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1 hour ago, Robert said:

The two up two down could be replaced by a play off set up similar to now. 

Interesting that they would have both the Highland and Lowland Champions going up each year. We could quickly see the Highland League reduce in numbers as presumably most relegated teams would end up in the Lowland League. 

The plan is to have it like the structure is now, based on latitude to the middle of the Tay Bridge, and assuming both relegated teams are north/south of the bridge, the northernmost/southernmost will go into the respective league.

Sod knows what happens if they're at a similar latitude, I think there was a similar issue in the National League North/South last season, where both teams were from the South, so one had to bite the bullet and play in the National League North.

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43 minutes ago, Jack Waddington said:

The plan is to have it like the structure is now, based on latitude to the middle of the Tay Bridge, and assuming both relegated teams are north/south of the bridge, the northernmost/southernmost will go into the respective league.

Sod knows what happens if they're at a similar latitude, I think there was a similar issue in the National League North/South last season, where both teams were from the South, so one had to bite the bullet and play in the National League North.

In the past they have just rejigged the Lowland league to accommodate a new team coming in. 

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1 minute ago, ICTPAISLEY said:

I doubt it, the Lowland league is taking over in terms of quality these days. 

There’s a lot of money in a few clubs but given the current composition of League 2, Brechin, Elgin and Cove are the only teams north of the Tay and Cove are being promoted, so chances are the bottom two are likely to end in the Lowland League in the early years at least. 

That said, I support the principal of freshening the league. 

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Just now, Robert said:

There’s a lot of money in a few clubs but given the current composition of League 2, Brechin, Elgin and Cove are the only teams north of the Tay and Cove are being promoted, so chances are the bottom two are likely to end in the Lowland League in the early years at least. 

That said, I support the principal of freshening the league. 

Misread your post the first time. If there was to be an automatic promotion place then I think they would then need to promote one extra every year from a feeder division below if a highland side wasn’t being relegated. 

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This came out a week ago with regards to the 14-14-14 and no promotion to the bottom tier - unless they yield this kills the reconstruction. 

Edited by Satan

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5 hours ago, Robert said:

Not a fan of this at all. Just serves as a self preservation for the clubs that have been stagnating for years. Time to get all the dead wood out of league two. With the West of Scotland league going ahead next season as well lower league football is going to get very interesting over the next few years. 

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The longer this goes on I think they should forget about league reconstruction until clubs get back to playing football in whatever form that will be and look at reconstruction with the clubs that have survived for season 2021-2022.

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Not having any reconstruction is also highly problematical.  If you do that, do you call the current season null and void or do you you say that final positions are as per the recent controversial vote?   If the latter, how do you deal with the play-off places?  If you just shelve the play-offs so it is a simple one up, one down between championship and premiership then that is in itself a form of reconstruction as it is applying different rules to those previously agreed.  

The 14, 10,10,10 idea seems the best to me as it avoids teams being relegated following an incomplete season.  The point to remember is that if you do that, it doesn't need to be a permanent solution.  It is a sensible solution to the immediate problem and allows breathing space for a more considered look at reconstruction when things have settled down.  

The real problem here is the voting system and the opportunity should be taken to look at that.  Needing the Premiership clubs to vote 11-1 in favour of a motion is patently absurd.  Equally, requiring a simple majority would also be absurd because you would end up with constant change due to one or two clubs changing their mind.  Most organisations require something like a two thirds majority for change.  This is tried and trusted.  This would prevent change when there was a temporary change of view of a small number of clubs, but it allows for change when there is a clear majority appetite for change.  Until the voting rules are changed then we are not going to get a solution which is in the best interests of Scottish football

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In all honesty there will be a greater need for reconstruction after this crisis as we pick up with less clubs/more players for the league formats that are currently in place.

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Looks like a 14,14,16 option is what is coming out of the discussions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52545305

Like the 14,10,10,10 it has the advantage that no team would be relegated this season.

As pointed out above, the league 2 sides seem keen on a 14, 14, 14.  I suppose the devil is in the detail with proposals around splits and play-offs and (for the league 2 sides) the arrangements for teams dropping into the minor leagues.

It looks as though the SPFL will put a proposal to the clubs if they have reason to believe that any particular option will receive the necessary support.  No doubt there is frantic activity behind the scenes trying to find a way of getting some consensus.  Any of these options would have us in the top flight next season.

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14/10/10/10 fairest as nobody goes down only promotion and of course the pyramid is open. 14/14/16 does keep the pyramid but you have the league 2 clubs standing firm atm and this will alienate 4 league 1 clubs who will end up in the bottom tier. I suppose Like doofers dad said that the details of play offs and splits maybe key but also the money. If those league 1 clubs end up in the bottom tier but don’t lose out on income then can’t see what the issue would be overall.

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As Bad Santa said, they can't all be winners. No matter what solution we end up with, someone, somewhere will not be happy with the outcome. The trick is to strike a fair balance that minimises the hurt and helps to keep everyone afloat.

As long as the restructure supports a decent pyramid with movement between the bottom tier and the Highland/Lowland leagues to keep things fresh then like gingerjaggy I don't see a big issue overall.

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I'll be ok with :

ICT going up and more fluidity between leagues and a fairer play off structure ie straight semis / final assuming 4 teams involved between each tier.

Inevitably there will be winners and losers but if promotion / relegation is more straightforward / achieveable then that will be beneficial to the Scottish game.

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Entirely predictable self-interest from the top flight clubs, but still a painful blow for us, having at least earned a crack at promotion through the playoffs. Plus having a Hearts in our league next season makes promotion a remote prospect. 

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Shafted as usual but entirely predictable that the self serving premiership clubs would be stubborn. Altough i feel for Partick as they are in an even worse position than us. Relegated by two points when they had a game in hand against us. Absolute disgrace. 

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I am not to disappointed as it is what was expected from the SPFL.  Just hope we survive and can play football next season even a big club like Hearts might not!

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It was a fantastic distraction while it lasted, but a fantasy is all it was.

Time to prepare for the football to come, whenever that might be.

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Yes, very predictable but it was a lot more than a distraction. it made the task of planning for the restart of football post Coronavirus even more difficult because clubs simply didn't know in what division they would be playing.  It also illustrates the dishonesty of the SPFL for linking their vote to end the season with a promise to look at reconstruction when they knew it was never going to happen.  Forget the need for an 11-1 vote of Premiership sides, apparently a majority of Premiership sides have told the SPFL that they are opposed to any change in the 12,10,10,10 structure.  The SPFL could have established that with 24 hours weeks ago.  They could then have put a clear motion about the end of season to the clubs without any dishonest carrots being dangled.  It absolutely stinks.

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Anyone who believed that the piss weak commitment to "consult on the possibility of reconstruction of the league in the future" would actually lead to anything of note should have a word with themselves. It meant f'ck all a few weeks back and nothing was ever going to change. A complete and utter waste of time.

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34 minutes ago, DoofersDad said:

Yes, very predictable but it was a lot more than a distraction. it made the task of planning for the restart of football post Coronavirus even more difficult because clubs simply didn't know in what division they would be playing.  It also illustrates the dishonesty of the SPFL for linking their vote to end the season with a promise to look at reconstruction when they knew it was never going to happen.  Forget the need for an 11-1 vote of Premiership sides, apparently a majority of Premiership sides have told the SPFL that they are opposed to any change in the 12,10,10,10 structure.  The SPFL could have established that with 24 hours weeks ago.  They could then have put a clear motion about the end of season to the clubs without any dishonest carrots being dangled.  It absolutely stinks.

And is anyone surprised ?

Do we all back sevco now in their fantasy quest to bring down mr Doncaster ?

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