Admin by Oct 16th - It's here now!

[Yngwie]

11 minutes ago, ICTPaisley said:

Was it not sold to Ross Morrison for 250k?

That’s what I had in mind RM and 2 others actually). It generated a cash sum that I’m sure dwarfs the various fees incurred in submitting the application.

Regarding the concerts, we know that we rented the stadium out. No sums ever mentioned but I would guess at a good 5 figure sum. We also provided services to the concert company for providing staff and selling tickets etc, which I’m sure would have been at no less than cost, and probably a margin built in.

So even though both projects could be deemed disastrous and regrettable for various reasons, it appears to me that the both generated money for the club. Sorry if that’s not what people want to hear!

Edited October 25, 2024 by Yngwie

[Drake]

It’s such a shame the Board didn’t accept an offer to buy the club. The club wouldn’t be in administration, jobs would have been kept and the club would be looking up. 
 

Of course if the new owners didn’t work out, then there would be an option of admin down the line, but instead of giving it a chance to see if it works, with the worst case end scenario being administration…. The club decided to jump straight to that. Almost as if they wanted it. Strange.

Edited October 25, 2024 by Drake

[Charles Bannerman]

51 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

That’s what I had in mind RM and 2 others actually). It generated a cash sum that I’m sure dwarfs the various fees incurred in submitting the application.

Regarding the concerts, we know that we rented the stadium out. No sums ever mentioned but I would guess at a good 5 figure sum. We also provided services to the concert company for providing staff and selling tickets etc, which I’m sure would have been at no less than cost, and probably a margin built in.

So even though both projects could be deemed disastrous and regrettable for various reasons, it appears to me that the both generated money for the club. Sorry if that’s not what people want to hear!

If you want to claim that the club “made money” out of the Concert Company, then you also have to accept that what it did was to indulge in morally reprehensible sharp practice that allowed it to asset strip the Concert Company of ground rent and staff fees before the CC went bust, leaving a large number of honest and innocent traders out of pocket in order to allow that profit to be made. That the CC was in practice, although not by law, part of the FC and the FC, possibly benefiting from its associated status, hence hung out the CC’s creditors to dry whilst filling its own pockets, was morally a disgrace. This has done the FC vast reputational damage, which is reflected in a  lot of the schadenfreude that still can be seen in the replies to the many recent newspaper reports of its near demise.

At the last AGM in April 2023, I pressed the point of the losses made by the CC and was appalled at Gardiner’s smugness when he told the meeting that the club had contrived financial benefit from a situation where its own gross incompetence had led others to lose a lot of money. That is one of the reasons why it’s only since Gardiner’s departure and other events of this summer that I have again managed to feel comfortable about having anything at all to do with the club.

Edited October 25, 2024 by Charles Bannerman

[TheNorthStander]

7 minutes ago, Drake said:

It’s such a shame the Board didn’t accept an offer to buy the club. The club wouldn’t be in administration, jobs would have been kept and the club would be looking up. 
 

Of course if the new owners didn’t work out, then there would be an option of admin down the line, but instead of giving it a chance to see if it works, with the worst case end scenario being administration…. The club decided to jump straight to that. Almost as if they wanted it. Strange.

Which one of the highly credible offers (sarcasm) did you want us to accept? Makwana’s or Anderson’s? Ketan couldn’t provide any proof of funds and one quick look at Companies House shows Anderson’s bid would have wasted our time too. Anderson also pulled out of a takeover at the last second with a club down in England.

Administration was inevitable as nobody with a modicum of business sense would have bought the club with the level of debt it had incurred.

Further by not pushing the admin button now, we risked Alan Savage walking away and being in an even worse or frankly terminal place.

 

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

2 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

which clearly raises the immediate issue of the future of the stadium.

Charlie, in some ways this is worthless to Morrison because the Inverness Councillors are strict on the use, or re-use of common good assets. If you recall, there was some concern back in the 1990's from Councillors then about providing common good land for the new football club. Arthur McCourt was the Club's saviour. However, the lease has fairly strict terms attached to it.   

[Charles Bannerman]

37 minutes ago, CELTIC1CALEY3 said:

Charlie, in some ways this is worthless to Morrison because the Inverness Councillors are strict on the use, or re-use of common good assets. If you recall, there was some concern back in the 1990's from Councillors then about providing common good land for the new football club. Arthur McCourt was the Club's saviour. However, the lease has fairly strict terms attached to it.   

Danny… I think you are perhaps conflating two events that occurred a couple of years apart. In June 1994, a District Council committee unanimously agreed to invite the club to lease land at East Longman. Certain IDC officials, who fought an abortive rearguard action against the club getting anything, tried to make difficulties but to no effect.

The stadium then went through the Highland Regional Council planning process which was very rigorous and expensive and this in part contributed to the club’s need to apply for assistance from IDC, which is how the second event arose.

That process of obtaining £900K was hugely complex and controversial and riddled with legal technicalities and ran from the late summer of 1995 through to the spring of 1996. By this stage, IDC no longer existed with the promise to give the money still unfulfilled when the single Highland Council came into being. HC’s inaugural CEO Arthur McCourt solved the problem by paying the cash from the Common Good Fund.

The land is also owned by the CGF and the club has a lease until 2093. I would imagine that if Armageddon occurred at the club, anyone hoping to acquire the lease would need planning permission for whatever they intended to replace the stadium on the site.

[+CaleyHedgehog]

I put my hands up to having no idea about the legalities concerning the land around the stadium, but it would be wonderful to work towards making the area a destination for more than just football. 

I read somewhere that there was talk of having the official start/finish of the NC500 there, which would be great, especially if there was some sort of start/finish monument for photos. The stadium could provide toilet and shower facilities on weekdays (and weekends too over the summer), and if there was some type of restaurant facilities available, even better. Merchandise wise, hats, scarfs and tops with an ICT/NC500 collaboration on them (could the vast quantities of kit be adapted?) could bring in some pennies and mini stadium tours could also be offered (for a fee). The bar could open in summertime, with seating outside.

There are probably a million reasons why these ideas would not work, but it would be great to see the area busied up a bit, and if we all keep throwing ideas in the hat then something is bound to be a money spinner.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

I am working on the assumption that Alan Savage knows what he is doing. I cannot envisage a situation other than where Morrison has the company over a barrel where he can benefit from asset control.  We do not know what was in Pandora's Box but we can probably accept that Morrison's position now is weaker.  If Morrison sought to collapse the company I am sure Councillors would want to bring the land back into CG control where the Council could benefit residents.  

[+Fraz]

18 hours ago, STFU said:

Given Savage was talking about people enjoying the view etc I think it was very much a sit in style affair he was talking about.

If we wanted to do fast food then one of the concourses would surely be better suited.

Everything is worth exploring I just find it strange that during such a press conference it would be placed out there front and centre as a big idea especially after commenting that we'd have no more sideshows.

We were told that about the concerts and battery farm.

Stay as we are and face no loses until the venture fails the space ends up out of use during any eviction period and not generating income and then we have to pay to convert it back into something it can be used for.

I know more people say they trust Savage but we had people saying the same when Muirfield came in and then when Crook came in and then Morrison came in (we had someone else among that too but I forget his name).

'Give them a chance' hasn't served us very well the last few years and this is a red flag for me.

Having a pop-up restaurant franchise may or may not work. Look at something like Tiger on The Wall which started during covid and became very successful. Doing takeaway initially then sit in later when allowed. 

The Caley Club also have a similar setup where the restaurant pays X amount a month (presumably under some kind of rolling contract) to use the kitchen and serve food within certain times. 

The kitchen facilities at the club are at best used once a fortnight during the season, or at the moment not at all. So it seems reasonable to use that space to generate some income. No different than if we had a 4G surface as a pitch and let it out when not required. 

So long as there's no risk financially or reputationally to the club and it doesn't take up huge amounts of staff time to manage I don't see the harm in exploring it.

The main issue with the Concert Company and BESS was that the board seemed to bank on these for the financial future of the club before it was guaranteed that they would be successful, causing a huge crisis when they have failed. I very much doubt that'll be an issue with renting out a kitchen space. 

Edited October 26, 2024 by Fraz

[STFU]

Alan Savage said "We can all now concentrate on football, no sideshows. I am pleased to be a part of that."

And then he goes on to talk about getting a restaurant franchise into the stadium.

I'm not saying we don't need to make better use of the stadium to generate income but opening restaurants is not concentrating on football and is a sideshow.

[Yngwie]

We’re not a Kelty based club, but we are a Glasgow club instead now!

 

[Robert]

That’s a necessary formality as we are being run by the Administrator. 

[Charles Bannerman]

On 10/25/2024 at 2:21 PM, ICTPaisley said:

Was it not sold to Ross Morrison for 250k?

Some of the people who have been running this club in recent years seem to be re-enacting some great big game of Monopoly - buying, selling, wheeling, dealing in all manner of tradable items. Meanwhile the club has gone from Mayfair to Old Kent Road without even passing Go and collecting £200. I think the administrator is going to get his eyes opened when he realises the amount of complete nonsense that’s been going on, allegedly in the name of football.

[Bridge_Ender]

11 hours ago, STFU said:

Alan Savage said "We can all now concentrate on football, no sideshows. I am pleased to be a part of that."

And then he goes on to talk about getting a restaurant franchise into the stadium.

I'm not saying we don't need to make better use of the stadium to generate income but opening restaurants is not concentrating on football and is a sideshow.

I’d argue that’s more making the stadium asset work for the club rather than a sideshow? It would be different if the idea was proposing to operate our own restaurant, but a seeking a franchise is basically just leasing the space out and (hopefully) letting the ££ come in for something that’s just sitting there.
 

As someone who left Inverness over 20 years ago, rarely attends home matches and doesn’t wear football kits, it’s pretty difficult to financially support the club. With a focus on football, two possible income generators could be:

- 1/2 season vouchers (ie, buy a 10 game voucher book rather than a full season ticket to target out of town/offshore/shift workers) 

- Away season ticket (reflects the split in our support. Many fans only go predominantly to away games) 

Not new ideas as loads of clubs do it, but another couple thoughts are:

- Club membership scheme aimed at the out of towners and those who can’t justify a season ticket but who want to contribute. Possibly something like £50 a season, essentially just to feel part of things. 

- Kids club. Similar idea to the club membership one, but with a couple parties with players attending, mascot opportunities, etc. Are free season tickets for u12/u16 still a thing? Incorporate within this if so?  

[bishbashbosh]

 nothing we don’t know already, but a couple of minute read for non highland based supporters from the beeb today.

The rise and fall of Inverness Caledonian Thistle

 

IMAGE SOURCE, SNS Image caption, 

Billy Mckay, front left, is part of a new management set up at Inverness

• Published
  8 hours ago

Inverness Caledonian Thistle (ICT) is fighting for survival 30 years after its controversial formation.

The Highland club is in administration and seeking much-needed new investment after running up large debts.

Its players and management team also face the huge task of escaping relegation from League 1 after the club was docked 15 points as punishment for getting itself into financial difficulty.

This all feels a long way from glory days "Super Caley" enjoyed in the past, with teams led by managers including Hearts legend John Robertson, former Celtic and Hibs defender John Hughes and England captain Terry Butcher.

• Three buyers interested in Inverness Caley Thistle

  • Published
    5 days ago

• Inverness Caley Thistle goes into administration

  • Published
    22 October

For ICT it all began in 1993 when the Scottish Football League decided to expand from 38 to 40 teams for season 1994-95.

It was suggested Inverness's three Highland League clubs - Thistle, Caledonian and Clachnacudden - join forces and make a bid for one of the two slots.

Clach dropped out of the project but Caley and Thistle, who were both formed in 1885, pushed on towards a merger.

There were fans who were vehemently opposed to amalgamation, and it took a narrow 54-46% vote to finally confirm the formation of Inverness Caledonian Thistle.

Some supporters were so scunnered by the decision they gave up football and started following rugby instead.

'Super Caley'

 

IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES Image caption, 

Graeme Shinnie lifts the Scottish Cup in 2015

ICT, a part-time club, started playing its first games in Division 3 in 1994.

In the 1996-97 season, Inverness secured promotion to Division 2 and in July 1997 manager Steve Paterson, who would later manage Aberdeen, and his coaching team were given full-time roles.

Caley Jags continued their climb through the leagues with promotion to Division 1 in 1999.

The following year the Highlanders were behind one of the most famous Scottish football newspaper headlines, external.

After beating Celtic 3-1 in a Scottish Cup third round match in February 2000, The Sun wrote: "Super Caley Go Ballistic, Celtic Are Atrocious".

In 2003-04, the then 10-year-old ICT, won promotion to the Premier League.

Over the next 20 years there would be huge highs but also crushing lows.

 

IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES Image caption, 

Terry Butcher congratulates his players after a match in 2013

The club's "fairy tale" season came in 2014-15.

Under John Hughes ICT finished third in the Premier League and secured Europa League qualification - and beat Falkirk 2-1 to win the Scottish Cup for the first time - with 10 men after having a player sent off in the second half.

The day after the final at Hampden in Glasgow, the team took the trophy on a tour of Inverness in an open topped bus.

The club's strong community spirit was clearly on show that day.

Fans who had gathered at the stadium to see the bus start its journey were invited to wait inside the ground, and even got the chance to meet some of the cup-winning heroes.

Hundreds of people lined parts of the bus's route from the stadium to the Northern Meeting Park where 5,000 fans celebrated with the team.

In its first 25 years, ICT also won three league championship trophies and two Challenge Cups.

If 2014-15 was the fairy tale, more recent seasons could be called a nightmare.

Inverness were relegated to the Championship on the last day of the 2016-17 season, a win over Motherwell not being enough to save it. 

ICT under manager Billy Dodds did reach the Scottish Cup final in 2023, but lost 3-1 to Celtic.

But last season, a run of poor league results and defeat in a play-off against Hamilton saw ICT drop to League 1. 

Angry fans took to the pitch in protest.

 

IMAGE SOURCE, SNS Image caption, 

Manager Duncan Ferguson worked for free in his last days at Caley Jags

Rumours of significant financial problems were growing louder, and supporters feared the club would go bust.

They were also dismayed by plans to move the club's training base 136 miles away to Kelty in Fife.

Bosses said the move would allow it to recruit players unwilling to relocate from central Scotland to the Highlands.

The plan was abandoned following a backlash.

Over the past few months the state of ICT's finances have become apparent, and there has been boardroom drama, with chief executive Scott Gardiner resigning and former chairman Alan Savage returning to prop up the club with funding.

Losses ran to £1.2m last season and a similar loss is forecast for this term.

Desperate measures were taken to raise revenue.

An online appeal was launched and team manager Duncan Ferguson took a pay cut and then worked for free.

Getty Images

In numbers:

Inverness Caley Jags

• £500,000How much the club sold star Ryan Christie, son of ICT legend Charlie Christie, for to Celtic in 2015

 

• 7,753Record attendance for ICT's stadium set in 2008 for a game against Rangers

• 7,820Tickets were sold in 2021 for a game against Hearts, breaking the 2008 record

Source: Inverness Courier/BBC Sport Scotland

A deadline to find a buyer, or raise enough money to stave off administration, came and went in mid-October.

The administration process has been described as a way of giving the club some breathing space to try and sort out its debts and secure its future.

Savage has spoken optimistically of encouraging local businesses to invest in the club, and his hopes of uncovering another young star like Ryan Christie, who left ICT for Celtic and now plays for Bournemouth and Scotland.

Veteran striker Billy Mckay is part of ICT's first team new management set up, though hopes of a swift fightback on the pitch were dashed by a 3-1 defeat at Dumbarton.

But as the club's history tells, ICT rarely does things the easy way.

Related

[+CaleyHedgehog]

Thanks bishbashbosh, that was a (mostly) lovely wee trip down memory lane. It brings back so many memories of happy days.

One day we will be there again.

[ictchris]

Interview with Adam Brooks about being made redundant.  I feel really sorry for Brooks, think he could have had more of run in the team.  HOpefully he gets a new club soon.

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/sport/exclusive-30-seconds-and-i-was-gone-adam-brooks-on-a-h-364921/

 

[+DoofersDad]

1 hour ago, ictchris said:

Interview with Adam Brooks about being made redundant.  I feel really sorry for Brooks, think he could have had more of run in the team.  HOpefully he gets a new club soon.

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/sport/exclusive-30-seconds-and-i-was-gone-adam-brooks-on-a-h-364921/

 

I think a lot were surprised that Adam was one of the few to be sent packing.  It is clear that he wasn't in Ferguson's plans, but he does seem to be the sort of player more suited to the more attacking style of play that the club seem to want to go with and we are not exactly overrun with attacking options.  It begs the question of who the administrators consulted about who to keep and who to release.  It is true that Adam never lived up to early promise while he was here but the style of play of the 2 managers he played under didn't give him much chance to show what he could do.  I'm sure we all wish him well in finding a new club soon.  I think there will be several happy to take him on.

[STFU]

I am among those that wouldn't have picked Brooks to go.

Depending on wage and accommodation costs it may have been a case of letting one go to keep two in order to maintain a minimum squad size.

Unpleasant for all players let go but of the group I would imagine Brooks will get most interest form elsewhere.

Knowing how these things normally go for us he'll pop up against us soon enough.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Charlie should be back this weekend with Danny so let's look forward.

[Yngwie]

I’m assuming that cost (wages and accommodation) is why Brooks was ditched. He definitely has something to offer the first team, and his departure leaves us severely short of strikers, so it can’t be for footballing reasons.

[bishbashbosh]

Captains armband passed on from billy

 

[Scotty]

1 hour ago, STFU said:

I am among those that wouldn't have picked Brooks to go. Depending on wage and accommodation costs it may have been a case of letting one go to keep two in order to maintain a minimum squad size.

56 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

I’m assuming that cost (wages and accommodation) is why Brooks was ditched. He definitely has something to offer the first team, and his departure leaves us severely short of strikers, so it can’t be for footballing reasons.

 

When it comes to this type of situation its almost entirely a numbers game. If he is getting a higher-than-average wage + accommodation costs on top of that, then his number is likely near the top. Not sure what input the likes of Charlie, Kells or anyone else had into making the decision about who stayed and who went, but the cull was less expansive than most of us imagined.

Looking at the ones who went, then I am going to assume we were paying accommodation for most of them, which must be a high cost, and with Dunc, Bollan and Garden, likely in the same situation there too, that has to be several thousand a month off the salary cost as well as accommodation and other hidden costs.   

 

[Satan]

8 hours ago, bishbashbosh said:

 nothing we don’t know already, but a couple of minute read for non highland based supporters from the beeb today.

The rise and fall of Inverness Caledonian Thistle

 

IMAGE SOURCE, SNS Image caption, 

Billy Mckay, front left, is part of a new management set up at Inverness

• Published
  8 hours ago

Inverness Caledonian Thistle (ICT) is fighting for survival 30 years after its controversial formation.

The Highland club is in administration and seeking much-needed new investment after running up large debts.

Its players and management team also face the huge task of escaping relegation from League 1 after the club was docked 15 points as punishment for getting itself into financial difficulty.

This all feels a long way from glory days "Super Caley" enjoyed in the past, with teams led by managers including Hearts legend John Robertson, former Celtic and Hibs defender John Hughes and England captain Terry Butcher.

• Three buyers interested in Inverness Caley Thistle

  • Published
    5 days ago

• Inverness Caley Thistle goes into administration

  • Published
    22 October

For ICT it all began in 1993 when the Scottish Football League decided to expand from 38 to 40 teams for season 1994-95.

It was suggested Inverness's three Highland League clubs - Thistle, Caledonian and Clachnacudden - join forces and make a bid for one of the two slots.

Clach dropped out of the project but Caley and Thistle, who were both formed in 1885, pushed on towards a merger.

There were fans who were vehemently opposed to amalgamation, and it took a narrow 54-46% vote to finally confirm the formation of Inverness Caledonian Thistle.

Some supporters were so scunnered by the decision they gave up football and started following rugby instead.

'Super Caley'

 

IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES Image caption, 

Graeme Shinnie lifts the Scottish Cup in 2015

ICT, a part-time club, started playing its first games in Division 3 in 1994.

In the 1996-97 season, Inverness secured promotion to Division 2 and in July 1997 manager Steve Paterson, who would later manage Aberdeen, and his coaching team were given full-time roles.

Caley Jags continued their climb through the leagues with promotion to Division 1 in 1999.

The following year the Highlanders were behind one of the most famous Scottish football newspaper headlines, external.

After beating Celtic 3-1 in a Scottish Cup third round match in February 2000, The Sun wrote: "Super Caley Go Ballistic, Celtic Are Atrocious".

In 2003-04, the then 10-year-old ICT, won promotion to the Premier League.

Over the next 20 years there would be huge highs but also crushing lows.

 

IMAGE SOURCE, GETTY IMAGES Image caption, 

Terry Butcher congratulates his players after a match in 2013

The club's "fairy tale" season came in 2014-15.

Under John Hughes ICT finished third in the Premier League and secured Europa League qualification - and beat Falkirk 2-1 to win the Scottish Cup for the first time - with 10 men after having a player sent off in the second half.

The day after the final at Hampden in Glasgow, the team took the trophy on a tour of Inverness in an open topped bus.

The club's strong community spirit was clearly on show that day.

Fans who had gathered at the stadium to see the bus start its journey were invited to wait inside the ground, and even got the chance to meet some of the cup-winning heroes.

Hundreds of people lined parts of the bus's route from the stadium to the Northern Meeting Park where 5,000 fans celebrated with the team.

In its first 25 years, ICT also won three league championship trophies and two Challenge Cups.

If 2014-15 was the fairy tale, more recent seasons could be called a nightmare.

Inverness were relegated to the Championship on the last day of the 2016-17 season, a win over Motherwell not being enough to save it. 

ICT under manager Billy Dodds did reach the Scottish Cup final in 2023, but lost 3-1 to Celtic.

But last season, a run of poor league results and defeat in a play-off against Hamilton saw ICT drop to League 1. 

Angry fans took to the pitch in protest.

 

IMAGE SOURCE, SNS Image caption, 

Manager Duncan Ferguson worked for free in his last days at Caley Jags

Rumours of significant financial problems were growing louder, and supporters feared the club would go bust.

They were also dismayed by plans to move the club's training base 136 miles away to Kelty in Fife.

Bosses said the move would allow it to recruit players unwilling to relocate from central Scotland to the Highlands.

The plan was abandoned following a backlash.

Over the past few months the state of ICT's finances have become apparent, and there has been boardroom drama, with chief executive Scott Gardiner resigning and former chairman Alan Savage returning to prop up the club with funding.

Losses ran to £1.2m last season and a similar loss is forecast for this term.

Desperate measures were taken to raise revenue.

An online appeal was launched and team manager Duncan Ferguson took a pay cut and then worked for free.

Getty Images

In numbers:

Inverness Caley Jags

• £500,000How much the club sold star Ryan Christie, son of ICT legend Charlie Christie, for to Celtic in 2015

 

• 7,753Record attendance for ICT's stadium set in 2008 for a game against Rangers

• 7,820Tickets were sold in 2021 for a game against Hearts, breaking the 2008 record

Source: Inverness Courier/BBC Sport Scotland

A deadline to find a buyer, or raise enough money to stave off administration, came and went in mid-October.

The administration process has been described as a way of giving the club some breathing space to try and sort out its debts and secure its future.

Savage has spoken optimistically of encouraging local businesses to invest in the club, and his hopes of uncovering another young star like Ryan Christie, who left ICT for Celtic and now plays for Bournemouth and Scotland.

Veteran striker Billy Mckay is part of ICT's first team new management set up, though hopes of a swift fightback on the pitch were dashed by a 3-1 defeat at Dumbarton.

But as the club's history tells, ICT rarely does things the easy way.

Related

Typical BBC,  can't get our name right at time of formation .

[ICTPaisley]

23 hours ago, ictchris said:

Interview with Adam Brooks about being made redundant.  I feel really sorry for Brooks, think he could have had more of run in the team.  HOpefully he gets a new club soon.

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/sport/exclusive-30-seconds-and-i-was-gone-adam-brooks-on-a-h-364921/

 

Along with the others I don’t think he’ll be missed too much on footballing merit.  He couldn’t do it in the championship and he couldn’t do it in league 1 either. The amount of moans I’ve been hearing this past year and a half about needing better strikers in also proves this point.
 

He wasn’t signed up for league two with us next season which might have been his level?