Pitch Inspection***GAME OFF***

[Heilandee]

and the drainage below might also be affected by "old age".

Would have to agree with this point, usually about 3 am

Seriously though, ,yer quite right Scotty,sure i mind Tommy ranting about the damage and predicting USH would cause more call offs than it would prevent

[Yngwie]

I've just learnt a new word today : porosity.

CTO - educating people since 1994

[Sorted]

As I understand it:

When the club got the right enter the SPL the conditions were pretty stringent. As soon as USH was mentioned the club argued the case that it wasn't required due to the location of the pitch and its history. SPL "diplomats" insisted that it was a necessity.

The contractor advised at the time of installation that the pipes needed to be buried further below the surface in order to allow adaquate drainage materials to surround and the ability to spike the pitch to a decent level. It was realised at the time that this was not possible unless the pitch level was raised by circa 80-100mm within the time constraints dictated by the SPL. A question was asked about extension in time and this was rejected by the SPL.

So as I understand it, from the contractor, the USH will function well for what it has been designed but has now created a blockage in the drainage system which is exasperated by the low level (almost sea level) of our pitch. It is reckoned now that any prolonged intense rainfall and a high tide makes it impossible for the pitch to drain. Tommy can't spike down any further and there is no exit for the water.

Solution: spend a fortune raising the pitch and relaying the USH with new drainage materials or remove the USH!

That's how I understand it and it appears to make perfect sense.

Edited April 5, 2011 by Sorted

[Scotty]

I've just learnt a new word today : porosity.

CTO - educating people since 1994

Damn, I knew I should have said permeability !!!

As I understand it:

When the club got the right enter the SPL the conditions were pretty stringent. As soon as USH was mentioned the club argued the case that it wasn't required due to the location of the pitch and its history. SPL "diplomats" insisted that it was a necessity.

The contractor advised at the time of installation that the pipes needed to be buried further below the surface in order to allow adaquate drainage materials to surround and the ability to spike the pitch to a decent level. It was realised at the time that this was not possible unless the pitch level was raised by circa 80-100mm within the time constraints dictated by the SPL. A question was asked about extension in time and this was rejected by the SPL.

So as I understand it, from the contractor, the USH will function well for what it has been designed but has now created a blockage in the drainage system which is exasperated by the low level (almost sea level) of our pitch. It is reckoned now that any prolonged intense rainfall and a high tide makes it impossible for the pitch to drain. Tommy can't spike down any further and there is no exit for the water.

Solution: spend a fortune raising the pitch and relaying the USH with new drainage materials or remove the USH!

That's how I understand it and it appears to make perfect sense.

I believe this is pretty accurate ... and the fact that the sub-surface had to be compacted by the equivalent of road-rollers prior to the pipes going in didnt help either as far as I am aware !

Those who choose to can slag Tommy off as much as they want, he's got broad shoulders and I am sure he can take it, but short of the measures outlined above, not sure what he can actually do to win this battle of mother nature -V- human engineering ?

[Georgeios]

I'd say... for those broken hearted because of mother nature..... Feck off n follow someone else, it got called off, we don't live in a blame culture..... deal with it.

[old caley girl]

Cant believe how many replies there is to this topic!

[Ronaldo]

I agree, have we a date for the rearranged match yet, or have I not been paying attention?

[CaleyD]

When compared to the problems other clubs have had with call-offs, I think we're fairing pretty well.

Had it not been due to the fact it was Celtic (twice) and TV games then I doubt it would have got a fraction of the air-time or column inches it has.

[billyshears]

As I understand it:

When the club got the right enter the SPL the conditions were pretty stringent. As soon as USH was mentioned the club argued the case that it wasn't required due to the location of the pitch and its history. SPL "diplomats" insisted that it was a necessity.

The contractor advised at the time of installation that the pipes needed to be buried further below the surface in order to allow adaquate drainage materials to surround and the ability to spike the pitch to a decent level. It was realised at the time that this was not possible unless the pitch level was raised by circa 80-100mm within the time constraints dictated by the SPL. A question was asked about extension in time and this was rejected by the SPL.

So as I understand it, from the contractor, the USH will function well for what it has been designed but has now created a blockage in the drainage system which is exasperated by the low level (almost sea level) of our pitch. It is reckoned now that any prolonged intense rainfall and a high tide makes it impossible for the pitch to drain. Tommy can't spike down any further and there is no exit for the water.

Solution: spend a fortune raising the pitch and relaying the USH with new drainage materials or remove the USH!

That's how I understand it and it appears to make perfect sense.

Cheers for that explanation, Sorted. The question remains, how much to implement the solution? I know the club (like most football clubs) is strapped for cash, but would the cost of lifting the pitch have balanced out the hundreds of thousands lost of the back of this seasons call-offs?

Edited April 5, 2011 by billyshears

[CaleyD]

Hundreds of thousands lost!!! How do you work that out?

[Scotty]

To me, this says it all ........

Full Article here: http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2210729?UserKey=

The Caley Jags wanted to play the game later after the condition of the Caledonian Stadium pitch improved, but were denied, despite Celtic agreeing to change the kick-off time.

The SPL confirmed the Highland club would have faced sanctions if the game had not been played at the arranged time. An SPL spokesperson said: ?The game was scheduled for noon, live on ESPN as agreed by the clubs and the SPL board. Delays in kick-off of more than 15 minutes are a direct breach of SPL rules, which is why it wasn?t sanctioned. A sufficient reason would include police concerns for supporter safety rather than weather.?

Caley Thistle manager Terry Butcher was not impressed. He said: ?We got in touch with the SPL, but there was nobody there who could make a decision about the game being postponed for an hour or two hours. Then the referee had to make the call".

So ICT agreed to delay, Celtic agreed to delay, and even ESPN have kind of admitted that whilst not ideal they would not have been averse to a delay even though it would mean the match probably couldnt go out live ..... yet some dickhead penpusher at Hampden with no authority to make a real decision quotes the 15 minute rule as a reason for inconveniencing everyone, and lets the referee shoulder the responsibility of actually postponing the game when a simple bit of common sense might have allowed travelling fans (of both teams not just Celtic) to complete their journey and see a game they set out early in the morning to watch !

What a wunch of bankers !

[tm4tj]

Problems at Firhill tonight.

From the bbc website:-

Tuesday's Scottish Football League Division One match between Partick Thistle and Falkirk has been postponed due to a waterlogged pitch.

A pitch inspection was called after heavy overnight rain in Glasgow and the Firhill surface was deemed unplayable.

[old caley girl]

Problems at Firhill tonight.

From the bbc website:-

Tuesday's Scottish Football League Division One match between Partick Thistle and Falkirk has been postponed due to a waterlogged pitch.

A pitch inspection was called after heavy overnight rain in Glasgow and the Firhill surface was deemed unplayable.

I didnt think they got heavy rain in glasgow the way that Celtic fans have been talking over the last few days !

[TheKnowledge]

Problems at Firhill tonight.

From the bbc website:-

Tuesday's Scottish Football League Division One match between Partick Thistle and Falkirk has been postponed due to a waterlogged pitch.

A pitch inspection was called after heavy overnight rain in Glasgow and the Firhill surface was deemed unplayable.

Patrick should be awarded a 3-0 loss and a good kick on the gooch for this one. Does nobody ever think of yhe children? Yet another example of the state of the game in this Country. It's a disgraceful embarrassment and this decision could have incited a riot. Gordon Brown, this is your mess.

[CaleyD]

To me, this says it all ........

Full Article here: http://www.pressandj...210729?UserKey=

The Caley Jags wanted to play the game later after the condition of the Caledonian Stadium pitch improved, but were denied, despite Celtic agreeing to change the kick-off time.

The SPL confirmed the Highland club would have faced sanctions if the game had not been played at the arranged time. An SPL spokesperson said: "The game was scheduled for noon, live on ESPN as agreed by the clubs and the SPL board. Delays in kick-off of more than 15 minutes are a direct breach of SPL rules, which is why it wasn't sanctioned. A sufficient reason would include police concerns for supporter safety rather than weather."

Caley Thistle manager Terry Butcher was not impressed. He said: "We got in touch with the SPL, but there was nobody there who could make a decision about the game being postponed for an hour or two hours. Then the referee had to make the call".

So ICT agreed to delay, Celtic agreed to delay, and even ESPN have kind of admitted that whilst not ideal they would not have been averse to a delay even though it would mean the match probably couldnt go out live ..... yet some dickhead penpusher at Hampden with no authority to make a real decision quotes the 15 minute rule as a reason for inconveniencing everyone, and lets the referee shoulder the responsibility of actually postponing the game when a simple bit of common sense might have allowed travelling fans (of both teams not just Celtic) to complete their journey and see a game they set out early in the morning to watch !

What a wunch of bankers !

Had anyone at the SPL been willing to listen to the case being put to them they would have been aware that the police DID have concerns over this and would far rather have had the game delayed than called off. As a result of the call of they ended up with a situation whereby large numbers of travelling supporters landed up in Pitlochry while they awaited trains back home and Pitlochry were simply not prepared for the influx. Police would rather have had them complete the journey and spend an extra hour in Inverness as they were at least prepared for it.

ESPN weren't happy, but they would rather have had only an hour or so to fill and shown as much of the game as the could than not show the game and have to fill the entire slot.

A very strange rule that says you can postpone a game without sanction but delay it by more than 15 minutes on the day and we will fine you!!! I also find it hard to believe that, in the grand financial scheme of things, had ICT been told it will cost you £5000 to delay or a larger chunk of revenue to postpone that they would have chosen the postponement. I very much doubt they were given the option.

Can the SPL become any more of a laughing stock with it's ridiculous and petty rules and operation?

[Scotty]

I also find it hard to believe that, in the grand financial scheme of things, had ICT been told it will cost you £5000 to delay or a larger chunk of revenue to postpone that they would have chosen the postponement. I very much doubt they were given the option.

thats my reading of it too ..... or to highlight the article a different way and add a single but important missing word .....

The Caley Jags wanted to play the game later after the condition of the Caledonian Stadium pitch improved, but were denied, despite Celtic agreeing to change the kick-off time.

The SPL LATER confirmed the Highland club would have faced sanctions if the game had not been played at the arranged time. An SPL spokesperson said: "The game was scheduled for noon, live on ESPN as agreed by the clubs and the SPL board. Delays in kick-off of more than 15 minutes are a direct breach of SPL rules, which is why it wasn't sanctioned. A sufficient reason would include police concerns for supporter safety rather than weather."

The more you read that article, the more ludicrous the stance becomes .... The clubs, TV companies and SPL may have agreed on everything but did they consult Mother Nature to make sure she was ok with it ? ...... Also, despite this seemingly cast-in-stone agreement, all but one of those involved agreed to delay the game on the day and it happened to be the ones least affected that were the spoilers.

There are so many factors that could affect a game so surely the FLEXIBILITY to adjust the timing and get it played on the day it is scheduled, even a few hours later is preferable to a re-arrangement days or weeks later involving a lot more costs to everyone involved, especially fans ... and especially considering the already congested schedule because of earlier postponements over winter.

Need to find and send that old Esther Rantzen "Jobsworth" hat to Hampden for the penpushers.

[+jagster]

There is an alternative that no one has mentioned - Containment tanks which are becoming more popular in areas that suffer flooding. with the car park and overflow area we have as many tanks as required are dug into the ground and intercept water from the drain when it reaches saturation and they can hold hundreds of thousands of litres and then can be pumped out to see when the tide drops, Diggars, PVc Tanks, Pumps etc pretty expensive but not insurmountable.

[+Fraz]

To me, this says it all ........

Full Article here: http://www.pressandj...210729?UserKey=

The Caley Jags wanted to play the game later after the condition of the Caledonian Stadium pitch improved, but were denied, despite Celtic agreeing to change the kick-off time.

The SPL confirmed the Highland club would have faced sanctions if the game had not been played at the arranged time. An SPL spokesperson said: "The game was scheduled for noon, live on ESPN as agreed by the clubs and the SPL board. Delays in kick-off of more than 15 minutes are a direct breach of SPL rules, which is why it wasn't sanctioned. A sufficient reason would include police concerns for supporter safety rather than weather."

Caley Thistle manager Terry Butcher was not impressed. He said: "We got in touch with the SPL, but there was nobody there who could make a decision about the game being postponed for an hour or two hours. Then the referee had to make the call".

So ICT agreed to delay, Celtic agreed to delay, and even ESPN have kind of admitted that whilst not ideal they would not have been averse to a delay even though it would mean the match probably couldnt go out live ..... yet some dickhead penpusher at Hampden with no authority to make a real decision quotes the 15 minute rule as a reason for inconveniencing everyone, and lets the referee shoulder the responsibility of actually postponing the game when a simple bit of common sense might have allowed travelling fans (of both teams not just Celtic) to complete their journey and see a game they set out early in the morning to watch !

What a wunch of bankers !

Had anyone at the SPL been willing to listen to the case being put to them they would have been aware that the police DID have concerns over this and would far rather have had the game delayed than called off. As a result of the call of they ended up with a situation whereby large numbers of travelling supporters landed up in Pitlochry while they awaited trains back home and Pitlochry were simply not prepared for the influx. Police would rather have had them complete the journey and spend an extra hour in Inverness as they were at least prepared for it.

ESPN weren't happy, but they would rather have had only an hour or so to fill and shown as much of the game as the could than not show the game and have to fill the entire slot.

A very strange rule that says you can postpone a game without sanction but delay it by more than 15 minutes on the day and we will fine you!!! I also find it hard to believe that, in the grand financial scheme of things, had ICT been told it will cost you ?5000 to delay or a larger chunk of revenue to postpone that they would have chosen the postponement. I very much doubt they were given the option.

Can the SPL become any more of a laughing stock with it's ridiculous and petty rules and operation?

I'd put good money on the answer to this being a big fat yes!

[CaleyD]

I just had a look on ebay and nobody is selling 350,000 litre water containment tanks....back to the drawing board.

[CaleyD]

Can the SPL become any more of a laughing stock with it's ridiculous and petty rules and operation?

I'd put good money on the answer to this being a big fat yes!

Yeah, I should really be careful of tempting fate where the SPL are concerned!!!

[Yngwie]

If only our drains could be diverted to Doncaster.

[+DoofersDad]

Had the game gone ahead, there is surely no way sanctions would have been taken by the SPL. Had commonsense prevailaed with the agreement of both clubs and the TV company we would have witnessed a football match taking place on a beautiful spring afternoon - a slightly greasy surface no doubt but otherwise a perfect day for a game of football. The decision to have gone ahead would have received praise from the media and the fans. Any suggestion that the game was nearly called off would have been considered laughable. In these circumstances the suits in at the SPL would have to be completely barking mad to impose sanctions. Ah! Of course! So I'm wrong. There would have been serious sanctions!

[Scarlet Pimple]

Three excellent posts respectively from Scotty. Caley D and DoofersDad.

If the SFA, or whoever, wanted to force the club to install USH, in the face of the objections of Caley Thistle for seemingly common sense and thoroughly practical reasons, then the SFA or the SPL should have been willing to foot the bill to make sure that it is done right-i.e any rolling of the ground to be compensated by some other procedure to balance out the nagative effects of the former.

The more I read about the expectations about the rules, regulations and lack of common sense displayed in the top echelons of Scottish football just now my heart and mind weeps with frustration.

Anybody who wants to set up a petition detailing these facts above and demanding that the irrational employees be sidelined and the rational ones, even if they are the ball boys, be promoted into the SFA/SPL Boardrooms will have my signature by Express Post.

But what now? Is this problem going to be addressed effectively? And,if so,how? Either we strongly berate the SFA rules for forcing this on the club or we have to mount a cogent campaign against them in the press.I am personally fed up to the back teeth with the way the "Authorities" in Glasgow have been picking on Inverness Caledonian Thistle going back as far as the Aberdeen fiasco. It's a bloody disgrace and we have to change it -- We know that the press in the Glagow area where the Offices of the SFA are, will not be co-operative so logically it's a petition then.............?

[RiG]

And from the Courier...

The club insisted that it was unable to contact the SPL to discuss the option of shifting Saturday's kick off back one hour to 1pm, while the SPL claimed the move was ruled out by broadcaster ESPN.

But last night ESPN told The Inverness Courier that it was never approached about the matter and would have been willing to consider the request ahead of the game being postponed due to a waterlogged pitch.

"The referee made the decision to call off the match, not ESPN, and there was no request to change the kick off time of the match," said a spokesman for the broadcaster.

I'd love to know who is lying in all of this.

[robbylad]

And from the Courier...

The club insisted that it was unable to contact the SPL to discuss the option of shifting Saturday's kick off back one hour to 1pm, while the SPL claimed the move was ruled out by broadcaster ESPN.

But last night ESPN told The Inverness Courier that it was never approached about the matter and would have been willing to consider the request ahead of the game being postponed due to a waterlogged pitch.

"The referee made the decision to call off the match, not ESPN, and there was no request to change the kick off time of the match," said a spokesman for the broadcaster.

I'd love to know who is lying in all of this.

I know who my money would be on!!! The same bunch of chancers that keep trying to tell us that the fans want a 10 team spl.

Doncaster must have his eye on spin doctors job at no.10

tube!!!!

Edited April 6, 2011 by robbylad