ICT - The Future?

[Guest Bonzo]

I have grown a bit despondent with the reaction of some supporters to the current poor state of this football club.

Personally, I have let it be known that I think the appointment of Christie was one showing a terrible lack of faith, conviction and belief in ICT.

An appointment made on the basis that no-one else would ever want him so we wouldn't have the inconvenience of having to look for a new manager again.

I have been saying, since the St Mirren game that opened our season, that we are in real danger of being relegated this year.

I believe that if action is not taken swiftly this club will go down - for good.

The reaction which disappoints and alarms me is along the lines of ...........

"well, we did well to get promoted in the first place, so enjoy it while it lasts..."

"we're a club of first division players who deserve nothing but credit for keeping us up for three years"

"a little club like ICT should not be able to compete with the big boys of the SPL anyway"

What a load of utter bollocks!

It is nonsense to say we should not be able to compete with the likes of Dunfermilne, Falkirk, St Mirren, Motherwell etc.

We should be able to consistently be a match for these sides.

There is no reason why we should not be able to remain in the SPL.

For God's sake, it's looking like Gretna will be taking our place!!

Let's start talking this club UP, not DOWN!

And I don't ust mean the supporters.

I mean the board.

Appointing Christie was a mistake.

Arguably the first mistake the club has made in appointing a Manager - and this maybe makes it harder to live with.

But this will be a very costly mistake if the club does not react quickly.

We WILL go down if Christie is not removed within the next few weeks.

The man was given the job of managing an SPL side with no experience, no contacts and no profile in the game.

To be frank, he had made a poor job of managing the lottery before his appointment.

Christie is a likeable man who has long been associated withthe club - but lets not delude ourselves, he was an average player, and he will never reach the dizzy heights of average as a manager.

Give him his old job back and lets say no more about it.

But do it now.

[Yngwie]

It is nonsense to say we should not be able to compete with the likes of Dunfermilne, Falkirk, St Mirren, Motherwell etc.

We should be able to consistently be a match for these sides.

Err, we are! We are above 3 of those teams and just a point behind the other.

"We WILL go down if Christie is not removed within the next few weeks."

If you are wrong, will you :

a) come back on here and admit to being a clueless overreactionary with an unfounded grudge against our manager and little knowledge about football, or

b) Stop posting for ages, but then come back when we lose a few games next season and call for the manager's head.

I think we all know the answer to that one.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Elvis is coming.

[Alex MacLeod]

Bonzo, you've said it all on so many threads that, to be honest, the record is wearing a bit thin now. Why dont you go crawl back into your kennel and stop barking in this direction.

[Scotty]

At the end of the day, Bonzo is entitled to his opinion ... I dont happen to agree with it, being one of those who is still 100% behind Charlie, but he is entitled to hold whatever opinion he wants and express it on here.

He is right to say we are not performing well at the moment, but I disagree with the assertion that the only way to put it right is to get rid of the manager. If we keep underperforming then inevitably that will be what happens, but Charlie has had as many good results as he has had shockers so to suggest he goes is like suggesting cutting off your leg above the knee to cure an ingrowing toenail .... ie. overkill.

get behind the team, get behind the manager ...... and get behind me in the pie queue  :004:

[Johnboy]

Scotty :

Now must surely be a good time to reveal the chairman's answers to the questions we were invited to submit....

With any luck it these answers might keep Bonzo quiet for a while.... :014:

[tm4tj]

Bozo, it appears that your future is always bleak, glass half empty, Scrooge like..........

You do make some valid discussion points but for me the neverending story for Charlies head on a plate detracts from any theories you have. When ICT entered the SPL, what did you really expect to happen?  Did you think we were going to sweep all before us and win the league before Xmas? Did you really think we would be in the top six? Did you really think we would qualify for Europe? Some folk....

Charlie has been criticised fo making realistic comments about the team firstly avoiding relegation, hey, that is real life, that is what we must do every season.  He is on a hiding to nothing here, the guy from the lotto job wins Champions League, aye, dream on.

It's like all the people championing Caff for weeks, well well, look what happened when he got a game. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a decent player, but it's easy for people to slag off others and say we should have done this.....or that........or put on this sub......or whatever, but how do we know that it would actually have altered events in real life, we have no way of proving if they would be correct until it happens, it's like saying...........we would have won the game if we left Dargo on............prove it!

Have your say, but give the manager and his colleague some support, through the good and hard times.  The only thing that have made him a bad manager is that we have become too predictable, teams have sussed us out, Charlie himself has not altered his approach so why is he getting all the stick.  I am disappointed with the results of the last two weeks, but hey ho, it's a funny old game, although I bet you are not laughing the now. :019: How about it, deal or no deal.

[Guest Sandy Cromarty]

Bonzo, we all have our day in the sun and it appears you are enjoying your personal harvest, and I do respect your honest opinion ,as to use the well worn cliche, it would be a sheity world if we were all the same, but there is one point that you and I and I'm sure that many others differ on and that is that Charlie Christie was never an AVERAGE player for this club of ours, by saying that he is displays a lack of football knowledge and probably total ignorance of the finer points in the game, Charlie was the best midfielder that we ever had and we may never have his likes again.

You have been able to enjoy football in the SPL largely because of Charlie's service over the years, I like many others regret the situation he finds himself in at the moment, probably because the job was thrust upon him and he didn't want to say no.

[kaiser]

Charlie Christie will learn more about his players and himself during these lean times , which can only make him a better coach/manager...given real backing ( which I sense the club more than the fans are willing to give ) and just a little time I think we will see out this wee storm and hopefuly get focussed on building a new team over the coming seasons.

[Johnboy]

Sandy : Hope you're not going soft in your dottage.... I actually agree with everything you've said there...

I'm quite sure CC was talked into taking the job on after some good results during his period as caretaker boss... I can't see it happening but even if the worst came to the worst and we finished bottom of the SPL I would still hate to see Charlie kicked out.... He came into the job taking over a side largely built up by Robbo & Brewster... he needs to be given a chance & time to build his own team.... There are tough times ahead for the guy, but for the moment he needs all the support we, the supporters can give him....

:022:

[Guest Sandy Cromarty]

Soft, no feckin way!! Credit where credit is due, Charlie is in charge and he knows well that the buck stops with him and he's in the lonely zone but there's no need for people to rubbish him, by all means criticise him for the present but leave his time as a player alone, he was a great player for us.

And have none of you thought that some of the posters doing the criticising might just be gadgies? who are taking time out from their own troubles to noise us up??

[Alex MacLeod]

I have no problem with people having an opinion, these opinions make for good debate, what annoys me is the people who choose to ram their opinion down my throat, as if theirs was the only one.

Bonzo obviously hasnt been happy that his opinions were not taken on board by the majority of fans, on other threads, so he starts one of his own saying the same things.

Sandy, I agree on the help front for CC and Parky. But, if the P&J stories are true then what is the cause of the unrest. Is it the ones we were expecting to re-sign soon that are the problem. Have they suddenly decided they are superstars and are trying to hold the club to ransom.  There are a lot of things go on behind the scenes that none of us know about but something is not right at this club just now.

[Stevie]

It is nonsense to say we should not be able to compete with the likes of Dunfermilne, Falkirk, St Mirren, Motherwell etc.

We should be able to consistently be a match for these sides.

There is no reason why we should not be able to remain in the SPL.

For God's sake, it's looking like Gretna will be taking our place!!

Let's start talking this club UP, not DOWN!

Bonzo, I don't understand this bit.

I can't think of anyone on this board who doesn't think that we can be a match for the sides that you mention.

The more, shall we say, glass half full types, expect us to stay in the SPL.

You're obviously not happy with the way things are going at the club, that's fine, that's your entitled opinion, but you're wrong if you think that guy's like me, feel we can't remain in the top league.

I feel ICT have come a **** of a long way in a very short timescale. After getting promotion to the SPL, I always felt if we could establish oursevles in the top league would be the goal for the first few years. Delighted to say , there not letting me down !

[CaleyD]

Here's my take on the overall situation and how all the "boo-boys" are doing far more harm than good even though the claim to be some kind of Oracle which is seeing all and only talking out in the hope that people will listen "for their own good".

Some of this info comes about from personal experience and finding myself in a very similar situation which just about sent me over the edge, so forgive me if it appears a bit "deep".

When a person comes to work each day and find a desk, newspaper, in-box or forum full of comments regarding how bad they did the previous day and picking up on nothing but the negatives it forces you to adopt a defensive attitude and approach to the work you do that day.  As the days go on your attitude becomes more and more defensive.

Being forced into a defensive and negative approach to your work in almost any industry is not a good thing, and for a football manager (especially a new and less experienced one) it must be an absolute nightmare.  These guys need to be able to work creatively in order to realise their own full and proper potential, and to do that means they need to be innovative and take risks.

In order for a person to be able to take risks they need to have a good relationship with those they are working with, be that the people who work under them (the players), those who work over them (the Board) and the customer (us the fans).  The more these people are seen to be finding constant fault the less risk the person will take and the more defensive they will become.

A good example of this was the fact that we performed so well away from home, away from the 'home crowd' who have a small but vocal section of people who only ever seem capable of finding fault in what CC has been doing, add to the the fact that Dargo has recently gone to the press to have his own wee dig and I think you can start to get the picture.

From personal experience this is a very hard cycle to break, especially where customers (the fans) are involved.  The Board and Chairman can deal with the internal issues but they have little power over the fans to bring a halt to this "Blame Culture", and the fans who are guilty of promoting the culture are generally to pig headed and blinkered to realise that although they may think they know all and are doing everyone a favour by sounding the alarm bells, they are in fact the main cause of the issue.

So, lets get of CC's back and let him do the job he was given.  If he fails, then he at least deserves to be able to stand up and say he gave it his best shot, and not have to bow out wishing he had stuck 2 fingers up at the doubters and did things his own way without having negativity thrust upon him unwantedly and without any real merit.  If he succeeds, then come back and give praise where it is due instead of lurking behind a keyboard waiting for the next blip to fuel your need to come on bashing someone because you've had a chit day, week, month or life.

Not everyone falls into the bully category as laid out above, some of those who criticise do so in a constructive manner.  They make and discuss their point and then they leave it at that.  It's those who feel the need to go on to every thread and post the same "Get CC out" nonsense day after day, week after week that need to wake up and get with the programme.

There's a reason why we call ourselves supporters and for me it's getting to the stage where some people are not fit to carry that title in relation to ICT with the way they go on, and I don't buy the "I only criticise because I care" argument either.  If you cared you'd be on here praising when things were going well instead of just when things aren't so rosey.

[Alex MacLeod]

:025: :025: :025: :025: :025: :025:

CD, as a bus driver I hope you keep a defensive attitude at all times and never take risks. :003:

[Stevie]

CaleyD, well said.

[Kingsmills]

As for the immediate future, success will be remaining above Dunfermline until the conclusion of the season.

A fourth consecutive season at SPL level would be quite a feat for a club witgh our resourses and fan base.

[Conival]

CaleyD, I agree with everything you just said there.

CC is new, and will make mistakes, who doesn't? But everyone else learns from them, so I don't see why he can't.

I am sure we will stay up this year at the very least.

[Guest Sandy Cromarty]

That must have been one tough paper round you had there D???

Seriously though I am genuinely sorry to hear of your travails in the work place which left you in despair, you have always come across as an intelligent sort of fella and oft times sensitivity goes hand in hand with those more clever among us, all of us reading this though can share similar stories of bullying and criticism in our workplace or schools, sadly it is so much part of everyday life and often very difficult to cope with, so I'm sure we all empathise with you.

However I would like to put some perspective on this spin as while most have suffered criticism through our lives we are not in the public eye nor do the public pay to see us do our job and therein lies the difference, we pay they play or not as the case may be.

[caley100]

Feckin brill big boy....now get off the podium and get back behind the wheel!!  :015:

[absent friend]

Well said CD!!

I only hope if CC reads this thread he comes all the way down until he hits on your common-sense posting.

I do think that some postings on here, re CC, are over the top.

Manager of the month? Not in the opinion of some of his own 'supporters'!

[Guest Get_off_the_park_Wyness!]

"When a person comes to work each day and find a desk, newspaper, in-box or forum full of comments regarding how bad they did the previous day and picking up on nothing but the negatives it forces you to adopt a defensive attitude and approach to the work you do that day.  As the days go on your attitude becomes more and more defensive.

Being forced into a defensive and negative approach to your work in almost any industry is not a good thing, and for a football manager (especially a new and less experienced one) it must be an absolute nightmare.  These guys need to be able to work creatively in order to realise their own full and proper potential, and to do that means they need to be innovative and take risks."

That's a very good point well made, but not all of Christies critics are petty pedants. The problem is that he keeps making the same mistakes week in week out. Form players left on the bench, long balls to Bayne and Dargo, Dargo humiliatingly hooked with 15 minutes left, Mcallister and McSwegan chosen before Wyness etc.

Credit where credit's due. Our defence is very well organized, as are our set pieces. These are the lynchpins, as Cloughie said you build your side from the back, but when it comes to actually winning games and points - you need to score goals. Our attacking strategy simply doesn't make any sense, period.

The long ball game is sound against Celtic, Rangers and Hearts - teams who out-match us in midfield, and who we can't afford to concede the ball against in what Mourinho describes as 'dangerous formations of transition'. But against the likes of Motherwell and Dunfermline its a nonsensical tactic. We're playing to their strengths. We've passed the likes of Hibs and Kilmarnock off the park in the recent past, yet resort to crazy gang tactics against easier teams.

I remember someone posted that we have 'the smallest team ever', with the likes of Dargo, Blackie, Rankin, Sutherland, Hart etc does it really take a Jock Stein to work out that we're not going to win too many aerial battles? Yet we continue to launch it week in week out. It makes absolutly no sense at all. What is Charlie thinking?

[Alex MacLeod]

Is it CC's tactics or is it the players themselves who dont feel confident with their passing game at the moment? What there told to do and what actually happens may be two different things.

[Guest caley till AYE die]

As for the immediate future, success will be remaining above Dunfermline until the conclusion of the season.

:020: we should not be aiming to just finnish just above dumfermline .

we should be aiming for top 6 or even higher if we dont do that then its no disaster but saying things like that is outrageous.

[Guest SPECKY]

fortunately, we live in a democracy where everybody's opinion should be heard and the biggest problem on this board is the narrow minded, blinkered attitude that some posters adopt, when anyone dares to question the ability of the present manager.  If you want only posts that support your own opinion then this would not be representative of what other fans feel, if they are paying their money to watch dross week in and week out then they are entitled to have their say.

If hearing an opinion other than yours is so upsetting, then split the forum into 2 so that like minded fans can have discussions with out having to put up with the drivel spouted by the likes of "immortal howden ender" who does nothing to promote this board in a positive way.