Rangers Newco with no sanctions

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

"Well I am a Caley fan - and I'm an Invernessian - They can do what they want - cos I dont give a feck - cos I want to be ICT."

The simple logic to follow is to stay away from Castle Greyskull - find a pub with Jeff Stelling on a large screen - "get pissed - destroy".

"Anarchy in the SPL" - Johndo Rotten

Edited May 23, 2012 by IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER

[Council Juice]

I would consider the 10 point deduction that helped end their league challenge, the fines, the tranfer embargo, the refusal of a Uefa license for next season, the inability to get a Uefa lisence for 3 seasons if a Newco is formed is a fairly harsh penalty as it is.

Further sanctions may be applied but I don't really see the necessity.

As for a newco getting straight in. I dont care. If its good for Scottish football in the long run then fine. They've been punished for their cheating and I've no real problem with a clean slate. It'll still be the same team with the same fans sitting in castle greyskull.

[+Gringo]

They may have been punished in footballing terms but I doubt the British taxpayer would see it that way..

[CaleyD]

The existing Club have received punishment...opinion will differ on whether that is seen as just or not.

I also agree that any new company should not be subjected to punishment....but they should also not be allowed automatic entry to the SPL.

If they want to be treated as a continuation of the existing club and argue their right to a place in the SPL, then they must accept ALL that comes with arguing that case.

This idea of taking "all that's good" and just casting off the bad stuff and stuff they don't like is ludicrous. Life does not, and should not, work like that.

Where's the moral compass in all this? Has society become totally bereft of the concepts of accountability? If "Rangers" want to walk away from all the bad crap then they have to walk away from everything and that includes a league membership and position which was gained by foul means. If they don't, then they have to accept accountability and punishment for what has happened. In no other business would a case of "Business not liable for the actions of it's owners/directors" be admissible, let alone argued.

I honestly find it totally incredible that the SFA and/or SPL (and its member clubs) are even giving the slightest consideration to allowing a NewCo (New Club) direct entry to the countries top league. Put a cross on the calender because this could be the event that officially marks the moment the world went mad.

[davie]

It musn't happen, and this is why. ICT have already reduced the playing staff budget for next season and have recent experience of making draconian savings as required (when relegated to SFL Division 1 in 2009)There is nothing in the public domain to suggest that this could not be done again if required, and nothing to suggest it would be required. St. Johnstone, Dundee United and Hibernian have likewise all survived that journey. According to received wisdom, this position of cost cutting would be mirrored at every other SPL club except Celtic and so would not place ICT at any further sporting disadvantage. Indeed, Inverness could well be better off than most clubs, given that gate receipts lost from a defunct or relegated to SFL Division 3 Rangers would be compensated for by the addition of local derby income from Ross County’s promotion to the SPL.

Last season, Rangers accounted for gates at TCS of:

13.08.11 6,623

26.02.21 6,046

In 2009-10 Season, Ross County games accounted for gates at TCS of:

29.08.09 5,846

30.03.10 5,411

There is no reason that the difference of less than a thousand customers in both cases cannot be made up by the added attraction of the fact that the next round of matches will be in the SPL. There is an added draw in that fans (especially those with families) may be more willing to patronise SPL matches without the rancour and sectarianism displayed by Rangers and Celtic. We need those families to ensure that more kids playing football in Inverness wear ICT shirts, not blue or green ones. We have nothing to fear.

The deciding factor for most clubs is the fear that broadcasting rights money from Sky and ESPN will be reduced or withheld because of reduced exposure in the event of the SPL breaching contract to show a minimum number of old firm games per season. This is extremely unlikely for several reasons:

ESPN and Sky operating models are based on subscription uptake, not viewing figures. The SPL is such a small part of their overall operation that a fall in viewer numbers will have no impact upon them. The only channels that will suffer are Celtic and Rangers PPV channels. There is no doubt that the first SPL north derby will be an SPL/ Sky broadcast and nothing to suggest that Sky/ESPN income would reduce, and certainly no definitive statement to that effect from the broadcasters. It remains a fear – nothing more than that – that is illogical but powerful until challenged, when it crumbles. There are Leagues aplenty in Europe that are broadcast where one club is seen to rule the roost (even on a temporary basis) Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and Austria are cases in point. We have nothing to fear.

All sport is based upon integrity, and any club that disregards this should be punished. Rangers have effectively boosted their playing performance for years by employing people of a standard that they could not afford and subsidising that standard by illegally withholding PAYE and disguising this by issuing double contracts and EBT’s. In effect, this is no better than doping to artificially raise physical standards whilst cheating the regulators to disguise the fact. Not paying tax and using the funds to purchase players like Jelavic from Vienna with no intention of paying in full is cheating. Material difference to games? – he scored against us when he should not have been purchased, never mind been on the field. It is, on every level from a moral to a legal one, wrong. This is a club that has lost it's moral compass completely.

There is a further perception that the SPL product would be lessened in its appeal if Rangers were not part of it. This is demonstrably untrue. The removal of one half of a virtual duopoly within the SPL would simply serve to open the League up to more meaningful challenges to the sole part left – Celtic. This season has shown all of our clubs what can be achieved with a level playing field – Motherwell in the Champions League and St. Johnstone in the EUFA league. How can experience like this fail to bring standards up? How can the chance of achieving European status fail to make the League more worthwhile to compete in? How can that chance fail to attract players to our League? If, at some time a Newco Rangers regain SPL status and do so under fair means they should be afforded their place at the European table rightfully and not by default. We have nothing to fear.

There seems to be a widespread opinion that Rangers have suffered enough because of the sanctions applied against them already. This is ridiculous – they have committed acts that are at best unsporting and at worst criminally illegal and are unparalleled in Scottish football. They have cheated on a grand scale for years as the previous and present owner have mired them in financial shame. Those within the “institution” who could have and should have whistle blown did nothing. It is clear that Rangers have infringed multiple rules and therefore warrant multiple punishments. The Newco is Rangers and must inherit it's shame.

This is how the fans feel. There is no illogical bloodlust to see a wounded Rangers further bleed. There is simply an overriding wish to see right done, and that right exercised by Chairmen next week despite the machinations of the SPL and the Old Firm. There is nothing to fear.

[Yngwie]

Some very good points and arguments there. But I would have to disagree with this one.

The deciding factor for most clubs is the fear that broadcasting rights money from Sky and ESPN will be reduced or withheld because of reduced exposure in the event of the SPL breaching contract to show a minimum number of old firm games per season. This is extremely unlikely for several reasons:

Sky/ESPN will reduce the amount they are prepared to pay for a Rangerless SPL. Significantly, I believe.

Rightly or wrongly, having both of the OF clearly means an awful lot to them. That's why the expiring contracts had a clause specifying 4 OF derbies a season. That's why they haven't signed any TV deal for the new season, and won't sign anything until they know whether Rangers will be in it at all, and whether they will be in a position to compete.

You are right that the SPL is a small part of Sky's operation, and your average English punter doesn't give two hoots about the SPL (but probably watches the odd OF derby).

However, there must be tens of thousands (at least) of Rangers minded people throughout the UK who subscribe first and foremost in order to watch their own team, perhaps paying around £300 a year to do so. Even if only a proportion cancel, that's still £millions a year lost to the TV companies, which then reduces the amount they are willing to pay the SPL.

Lower viewing figures also have a direct impact on Sky/ESPN's advertising revenues.

None of us know the value of a TV deal without Rangers, but I suspect the club chairmen have an inkling and are very concerned about the consequences.

[Ten4]

I`d prefer to rid the spl of both Celtic & Rangers if it were ever at all possible.

As it is the rest of the teams are in a league of their own anyway (the bottom 10)

I Doubt Scottish football will ever flourish if it carrys on as it is - turn -a- bouty the tic or gers winning the league

[+DoofersDad]

If the SPL does not have the moral guts to expel Rangers then at least the points penalty needs to be in proportion to the level of "crime". 3 points a game might be reasonable so that they started on minus 114. At least that would give them a fighting chance and they could still pip County on goal difference on the last day of the season.

That works for me

So Rangers finish on 0 points ahead of County? How does that work? Would County not have at least 9 points?

Rangers win all their games and end on 0 points. County lose all theirs and also end on 0 points but with a very much worse goal difference.

[Alex MacLeod]

Dear Board and Chairman of ICT

Having watched the BBC programme tonight on the Rangers fiasco, and seriously thinking about the facts and findings of their investigations, I will be extremely disappointed if this club decides that a Rangers Newco are admitted straight into the SPL. Rangers are seen to have done many things against the laws of the land in order to achieve success in the game and if you vote in favour of admitting any Newco then you are condoning, no! aiding and abetting in the breaking of law and I will not support that decision.

Alex MacLeod

[Kirishima]

I haven't seen the documentary yet. The SPL and SFL could, given the recent talks and round the clock work, be able to put Rangers in SFL Div 3 by linking the two organisations. The SPL just don't want to. We all know there will be a NewCo, with no sanctions, and that's because the SPL and member teams are reliant on two teams to sell their product to the TV men. Had it been ICT, the NewCo would have been rejected by the SPL. And, the new laws will enshrine such a thing, with enough wiggle room for Celtic one day. Not fair, not credible, and so, a lot of people will just be passive supporters. 16-team league, with one organisation, Rahgers in SFL Div 3 and strict rules on finance would solve it.

[Sir C the 3rd]

After last nights revelations on FC Dignity, if they're not punished appropriatley by the SPL then thats it for Scottish Football. Fans in there thousands will start turning away and Celtic and FC Dignity will be whipping part-time teams every week.

The SPL was bordering on farcical anyway with their woefully misjudged distribution of the TV money and the ludicrous rules for entry and voting structure. (making County spending in excess of £1,000,000 pounds in this climate is crazy)..... but FC Dignitys years of cheating and stealing players basically goes without punishment then the league is pointless, the other teams are not being allowed to prosper.

[Alex MacLeod]

I realise my poll is not representative of all the fans of ICT with only 40 votes so far. Please take note though that 57.5% of the voters have indicated they would stop supporting their team. If this was representative then over half of our current fanbase will stop coming. Thats 1500 x 18 home games. 27000 lost seats in a season is a hell of a big hit against the risk that Rangers fans carry out their boycott.

Fans of all the other teams are saying the same thing. Part time football in the SPL? Unthinkable but looking very much a reality.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Alex MacLeod

[+DoofersDad]

Alex, I think the reason you have not got many votes to your poll is that the option a majority might choose is not an option you have given. I would continue to attend games but not as I do now. I would not go and watch a Rangers Newco.

[Sir C the 3rd]

I'm not renewing my season ticket if Rangers are in the league with no sanctions. Thats near 20 years i've had one, but like I say theres no point to SPL football if they're allowed in. Its a league where cheating goes unpunished, what Rangers have done I would consider chucking them out of football alltogether, its completely against the ethos of football!!! But not in Scotland, back into the SPL with a token 10 points off. Absolutley disgraceful.

Clach might be seeing my money till ICT are back in the lower leagues....... at least the SFA have shown some balls by sticking to their origional punishment for them, thats a good start

[ictchris]

I'm not renewing my season ticket if Rangers are in the league with no sanctions. Thats near 20 years i've had one, but like I say theres no point to SPL football if they're allowed in. Its a league where cheating goes unpunished, what Rangers have done I would consider chucking them out of football alltogether, its completely against the ethos of football!!! But not in Scotland, back into the SPL with a token 10 points off. Absolutley disgraceful.

Clach might be seeing my money till ICT are back in the lower leagues....... at least the SFA have shown some balls by sticking to their origional punishment for them, thats a good start

You can't stop going, who will I sit and be negative with?

if Rangers get allowed back in the SPL, we should buy top class players, run up massive debts and form a newco every season.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Lets get Marius Niculae back.

[Northern_jaggie]

It would be interesting for the likes of Dundee, Dunfermline, Falkirk etc applied to join the SPL as newco's. I wonder what 'fix' the SPL would create to reject these clubs and accept Rangers.

What a joke. Get them out, my life would be better.

[PullMyFinger]

If the SPL does not have the moral guts to expel Rangers then at least the points penalty needs to be in proportion to the level of "crime". 3 points a game might be reasonable so that they started on minus 114. At least that would give them a fighting chance and they could still pip County on goal difference on the last day of the season.

That works for me

So Rangers finish on 0 points ahead of County? How does that work? Would County not have at least 9 points?

Rangers win all their games and end on 0 points. County lose all theirs and also end on 0 points but with a very much worse goal difference.

How can they both lose against each other?

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

http://www.scotsman.com/scotland-on-sunday/sport/rangers-administration-end-game-nears-for-fallen-icon-1-2320897

''The clear implication of Doncaster’s remarks is that the rules don’t allow further sanctions on Rangers at this time, but should the club be found guilty of having operated a dual contract system, then Rangers will be heavily punished next season.''

[+DoofersDad]

If the SPL does not have the moral guts to expel Rangers then at least the points penalty needs to be in proportion to the level of "crime". 3 points a game might be reasonable so that they started on minus 114. At least that would give them a fighting chance and they could still pip County on goal difference on the last day of the season.

That works for me

So Rangers finish on 0 points ahead of County? How does that work? Would County not have at least 9 points?

Rangers win all their games and end on 0 points. County lose all theirs and also end on 0 points but with a very much worse goal difference.

How can they both lose against each other?

In this scenario they don't. The concept is that Rangers start the season with a deduction of 3 points per match. If they were to win all their games they would therefore win 3 points per match and would end up with 0 points. For them to avoid relegation another team would have to lose all their games and also end up with 0 points. Rangers would obviously have a much better goal difference and would avoid the drop. Just a bit of end of season nonsense and an opportunity to have a go at both Rangers and County at the same time.

[12th Man]

I think people get pulled in a certain direction including myself with regards to punishing the greedy b#####ds.

If it was a club like Kilmarnock, and for instance a company who loans money to Killy and carries their dept suddenly goes bust and the receivers want the dept called in then Killy may be no more.Just only a possible example.

But this hasn't happened to Kilmarnock, its happened to a big greedy club, a club that will beat most of the clubs it plays due to its spending power, a club that will steal your best players just to have them sitting on a bench, a club that will go bust and still have the money to fly from Glasgow to Inverness and stay in a 4* hotel but cant afford to hand over the money for tickets it sold to their own fans to watch an away game. a club that will overspend with the hope of getting a greater return from the cups it competes in. A club that steals your locals so they can call themselves Rangers fans just so they can cling on to a bit of success and rejoice if their adopted Glasgow club beats the team of their place of birth. A club that refuses to share more of the SPL kitty to the rest, just to weaken the rest of Scottish football.

If it was a small club that was in difficulty I think I would be compassionate to them but its happened to a club that takes,takes then takes some more. What ever sanctions are put in place all they have to do is spend more cash and get a good lawyer to overthrow any handicaps put in front of them, just like the bans handed out to Lennon.

I say take what you can get from them.

[Gabby]

Some very good points and arguments there. But I would have to disagree with this one.

The deciding factor for most clubs is the fear that broadcasting rights money from Sky and ESPN will be reduced or withheld because of reduced exposure in the event of the SPL breaching contract to show a minimum number of old firm games per season. This is extremely unlikely for several reasons:

Sky/ESPN will reduce the amount they are prepared to pay for a Rangerless SPL. Significantly, I believe.

Rightly or wrongly, having both of the OF clearly means an awful lot to them. That's why the expiring contracts had a clause specifying 4 OF derbies a season. That's why they haven't signed any TV deal for the new season, and won't sign anything until they know whether Rangers will be in it at all, and whether they will be in a position to compete.

You are right that the SPL is a small part of Sky's operation, and your average English punter doesn't give two hoots about the SPL (but probably watches the odd OF derby).

However, there must be tens of thousands (at least) of Rangers minded people throughout the UK who subscribe first and foremost in order to watch their own team, perhaps paying around £300 a year to do so. Even if only a proportion cancel, that's still £millions a year lost to the TV companies, which then reduces the amount they are willing to pay the SPL.

Lower viewing figures also have a direct impact on Sky/ESPN's advertising revenues.

None of us know the value of a TV deal without Rangers, but I suspect the club chairmen have an inkling and are very concerned about the consequences.

Sky/ESPN will have a very good idea what a TV deal without Rangers is worth and as a result they will drop a lot of zeros of the end of the original number.

[CaleyD]

Far too many people really do have an over-inflated opinion on the worth of SPL Football.

For the vast (and I'm talking guesstimations in the upper 90's percentage wise) majority of Sky Subscribers SPL football is merely something they happen upon when flicking through the channels. Sky/ESPN will value the product on that basis.

The assumption that if Rangers are not in the SPL that they will lose all Rangers Fans as subscribers is also ridiculous. Are these people really going to give up all other football they watch, F1, Golf etc etc and cancel? Highly unlikely.

Of course, being the ruthless commercial organisation that they are then Sky/ESPN will use the situation as a means by which to knock a bit off the deal, but if the get rid of the SPL then they have to replace it with something else and they have all the expense and time that comes with having to do that....too much hassle for such a small product.

In the grand scheme of things the SPL is worth no more or less to Sky/ESPN than stuff like speedway, husky dog racing, womens beach volleyball etc. It's curiosity TV for the bulk of their subscribers who would are no more likely to subscribe to packages because of it than they are to cancel if it was gone.

IMO....Clubs, SPL, Media etc are all pedalling the "No Rangers, No Sky" line for no good reason other than it serves their own personal agenda and it's easier than growing a pair and making a proper decision for the right reasons.

[+bughtmaster]

GO RANGERS GO.

There is no good reason why Rangers should not be expelled from the SPL.

They are CHEATS!, Con. Artists, and Theives

Through their own selfish actions they have cheated other teams out of league placement money at the end of season.

They have cheated teams out of transfer, money gate money and Euro qualifying money.

They have not paid their Taxes, they have not paid businesses monies due to them,

They have conned the SPL and their own fans and brought them in to disrepute.

They have threatened to leave the SPL and bear no loyalty to the SPL.

They have broken SFA rules Euro Rules and FIFA rules.

They have again made Scottish Football the laughing stock of the world.

YES GO RANGRS GO

[bauhaus]

Whats the chance that Rangers are relegated to Div 3, SKY and ESPN both drop the SPL and turn to the news story of following Rangers Newco through the divisions, get promoted after three years to the SPL as the only team not in debt