Danny Wilson Ineligible?

[Kingsmills]

Unless the SFA can provide written records from their English counterparts proving that the ban was served at a specific fixture then there is no doubt whatsoever that Danny Wilson was ineligible and should not have played.

 

As has been pointed out in this thread, it was hardly as if he was a bit player in the match making crucial contributions at both ends of the pitch.

 

Even with St Mirren, rather than Celtic, making the final this gaffe has the potential to cost the club in excess of quarter of a million pounds and should not be left to rest now, certainly not on the bland statement of an unnamed SFA spokesman not backed up by a shred of proof.

[Scotty]

Artcile about SFA officially confirming he was eligible. 

 

http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/211820-sfa-confirm-danny-wilson-served-suspension-in-liverpool-league-match/

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuqry9SMjQM

[bauhaus]

What utter utter utter bull sh1t rom the SFA. 

 

On one of the websites, ours, hibees or Hearts, some one had already put up the official English FA team lines and suspensions for this game ( Liverpool v Arsenal ) and it lists NO SUSPENSIONS for Liverpool. Utter UTTER UTTER P1SH FROM THE SFA, just trying to cover their mistake, and Hearts.

Also newspaper reports where it is stated, Liverpool also have Danny Wilson available for that game.

 

SFA SMELLS OF A COVERUP, BUT SH1TE SMELLS TOO STRONG TO COVER UP.

[KennySim93]

That doesn't make sense at all.  If DW served his suspension vs Arsenal, the how come he was listed on the bench as stated in the team sheets above??

[ElderBoy]

So, If this is the case then technically Zaliukas who is suspended for the final could then go on loan to an English team for a week, He could then come back and play in the final...?

Edited January 29, 2013 by ElderBoy

[Govan Jaggie]

So, If this is the case then technically Zaliukas who is suspended for the final could then go on loan to an English team for a week, He could then come back and then play in the final...

Yes

[Kingsmills]

but only if there was a record of a match in which he served his suspension which we have yet to see in the case of Danny Wilson.

[DundeeICT]

Sounds like. Chris Harvey from STV from tweeting to me saying he could have been stripped in the changing room but not played and that's the effect of a ban occur - ie he never played in the game.

Think we are fighting a losing battle now!

[Kingsmills]

We have been fighting an uphill battle all along. Doesn't mean we are not in the right.

[ICTRoughi]

As I said before, the only way we can get this sorted is if the FA or Liverpool confirm the ban was served.

[bdu98196]

Sounds like. Chris Harvey from STV from tweeting to me saying he could have been stripped in the changing room but not played and that's the effect of a ban occur - ie he never played in the game.

Think we are fighting a losing battle now!

 

So a banned player can be in his kit and sit on the bench, but so long as he doesnt enter the park during the duration of play he is deemed to have served is suspension? I guess it can make sense that theory as a team if they wish can use up a subs space with an ineligible player, but seems implausible that any team would, especially a team such as Liverpool who would have other good youth players who could take that place. Sounds to me like they woudl have played him if needed, the fact he was selected doesn't sound like serving a ban - why for a ban in any other competition does teh suspended player end up sitting in the stand, yet not under the rules for the League cup.

 

All a bit bizzare, think folks are making it up as they go along now!!!

[maccapacca]

http://www.arsenal.com/match-menu/3293494/first-team/liverpool-v-arsenal?tab=report

 

The arsenal report would suggest Wilson is NOT on the subs bench but obviously no reason why.

 

 

You can watch the goals here too...

 

http://player.arsenal.com/matches/3293494/liverpool-v-arsenal?tab=arsenalplayer

 

 

He was on the bench for Europa Games prior to this date and then played in a friendly:

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2010/08/13/danny-wilson-believes-move-to-liverpool-fc-will-see-his-game-progress-100252-27053968/

 

So if the red card offence can be transferred and applied to any old game in the FA, he didn't appear on the bench or pitch against Arsenal.

[sheepslagger]

Just read the article on BBC and in my simple wee mind it looks like an open and shut case.  The boy was not eligible. He did not serve his ban.

 

Now Hearts may have been given duff info by duff fowk at the SPL, SFA ,SF,L NHS, NUT or indeed his Holiness Pope Benedict XVI but ignorance is no defence in these cases. 

 

IF that article is right enough Hearts should be kicked out for fielding an ineligible player. End of.

 

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21239532

[Yngwie]

The penalty is sailing high and wide, guys.........

 

[ICTRoughi]

What doesn't sit right with me is that, why on earth after receiving a clear international certificate from the FA would even ask the question if he was eligible to play or not. Seems like SFA are trying to cover their own mistakes up.

[mikeyrob73]

The SFA will continue to cover this sham up as they do not want us and St Mirren in the Final, simple as that. Does no on else find it slightly suspect that Hearts, a club who have continually not paid their players were allowed to sign 2 players on loan days before our game, and also the fact that the game was held at a " neutral" venue a few miles away from Hearts ground. The SFA is a joke and hates the highland teams. Discuss :-)

[KingBeastie]

Unless they can prove that DW has served his suspension this is not over.

[AJS]

There has been no evidence to suggest this ban has ever been officially served and if there isnt then neither the SFA or Hearts really have a leg to stand on, but they will probably get away with it on a "technicality".

 

Im glad the club are investigating. I only hope that they dig their heals in because this is far from over. No one has said anything clear cut and reasons to justify his eligibility are yet to have been expanded on beyond what was put on STV on Sunday night. Unless Liverpool, the SFA or Hearts can prove anything new this is far from over.

Edited January 29, 2013 by ajsict92

[Rasczak]

I started writing this before MaccaPacca's reply so some info is duplicated, however I think the context is still needed.

 

According to both the official Liverpool and official Arsenal sites, Danny Wilson was neither in the starting 11 nor a listed substitute for the their match on 15/08/10.

 

LFC Report

 

Arsenal Report

 

Though he was on the bench for the Europa Cup game the week before, 05/08/10.

 

LFC Europa Report

 

Neither link for the Arsenal game makes reference to him at being banned for the game and a search on the LFC site for Danny Wilson shows no results about him being banned, however does turn up an interesting result posted 2 days before that game.

 

LFC News Article

 

It mentions the Europa League, but not anything about an imminent suspension

Wilson added: "I've been on the bench for the Europa League game last week, and that's the only competitive game I could have been involved in.

"Then I played 45 minutes in the friendly at Moenchengladbach so I was happy with that.

"People say I'm maybe not going to get the game time I would have at Rangers. But I would have faced the same problem there with Webster coming back.

"Rangers have the luxury of good centre-halves as well so I find myself in no different position and I feel it's better because I can learn from more top-quality players.

"I'm just happy to get game time whenever I can and hopefully it's sooner rather than later."

 

He was hoping for game time ASAP, but didn't mention he would have to wait at least one game due to a suspension ?

Doesn't look to me like the suspension was a factor in him not being selected just that others were preferred. 

 

I don't see how you can just pick a game a player was not selected for and declare that was the one a suspension applied to. What I can't find is an official historic list of suspensions from the English FA, just current and pending ones. That is definitely the document that is needed to confirm if the suspension has been served. 

 

As I see it, if the English FA have a document saying Danny Wilson was suspended for a First Team game for dates between 21/07/10, his transfer date, and the date any disciplinary points from FA sanctioned games would have triggered any further suspension, and he did not take part in the first relevant game, then the suspension is served.

If such a document cannot be produced, then the suspension was not served and therefore would apply to the first relevant game after registration with the SFA.

 

 

The BBC article as updated today at 11:58 states that the suspension was served in the Arsenal game, that being the case then the SFA/English FA will shortly be providing the necessary documentation showing this, will they ?

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

If this scenario is tolerated under UEFA rules, or international rules, what is to stop a club with a player suspended for a very important match, loaning the player out for one game, and letting him sit that out, recalling him and then playing him in the final. It would make an absolute mockery of suspensions. Clubs in England could use a Scottish club for a day long loan, let him serve his suspension, then back he comes free of suspension.<br /><br />Based on the SFA's precedent, Zaliukas and Robinson could go straight down that route now in order to play in the final.<br /><br />Surely competition specific means what it says.

[ICTRoughi]

There has been no evidence to suggest this ban has ever been officially served and if there isnt then neither the SFA or Hearts really have a leg to stand on, but they will probably get away with it on a "technicality".   Im glad the club are investigating. I only hope that they dig their heals in because this is far from over. No one has said anything clear cut and reasons to justify his eligibility are yet to have been expanded on beyond what was put on STV on Sunday night. Unless Liverpool, the SFA or Hearts can prove anything new this is far from over.

According to BBC he wasn't on the bench. I checked Liverpool's fixtures before the arsenal game and they had European games. Danny Wilson was on the bench on the home tie. Does European games not count as their rule about serving it in any competition.

[AJS]

There has been no evidence to suggest this ban has ever been officially served and if there isnt then neither the SFA or Hearts really have a leg to stand on, but they will probably get away with it on a "technicality".

 

Im glad the club are investigating. I only hope that they dig their heals in because this is far from over. No one has said anything clear cut and reasons to justify his eligibility are yet to have been expanded on beyond what was put on STV on Sunday night. Unless Liverpool, the SFA or Hearts can prove anything new this is far from over.

According to BBC he wasn't on the bench.

I checked Liverpool's fixtures before the arsenal game and they had European games. Danny Wilson was on the bench on the home tie. Does European games not count as their rule about serving it in any competition.

 

There was never anything to say he was suspended for the game though. Your right about the Euro games though. If thats the case then he had already participated in official games.

[ICTRoughi]

There has been no evidence to suggest this ban has ever been officially served and if there isnt then neither the SFA or Hearts really have a leg to stand on, but they will probably get away with it on a "technicality".   Im glad the club are investigating. I only hope that they dig their heals in because this is far from over. No one has said anything clear cut and reasons to justify his eligibility are yet to have been expanded on beyond what was put on STV on Sunday night. Unless Liverpool, the SFA or Hearts can prove anything new this is far from over.

According to BBC he wasn't on the bench. I checked Liverpool's fixtures before the arsenal game and they had European games. Danny Wilson was on the bench on the home tie. Does European games not count as their rule about serving it in any competition.

  There was never anything to say he was suspended for the game though. Your right about the Euro games though. If thats the case then he had already participated in official games.

Defiantly. All ICT need to do see the relevant documents to say yes he served it. Nothing of the such has been given. End of the day, this isn't a personal vendetta on Hearts cause we lost the game. It's just ICT trying to defend itself from being cheated.

[Rasczak]

I checked Liverpool's fixtures before the arsenal game and they had European games. Danny Wilson was on the bench on the home tie. Does European games not count as their rule about serving it in any competition.

I thought about this and suspect not as Joe Cole was given a straight red in the Arsenal game and he played in the Europa League game against Trabzonspor 4 days later.

I think that is more as the Europa League is UEFA sanctioned rather than national association sanctioned, same as being sent off in a World Cup qualifier wouldn't incur an automatic suspension for a domestic game.

[AJS]

 

 

There has been no evidence to suggest this ban has ever been officially served and if there isnt then neither the SFA or Hearts really have a leg to stand on, but they will probably get away with it on a "technicality".

 

Im glad the club are investigating. I only hope that they dig their heals in because this is far from over. No one has said anything clear cut and reasons to justify his eligibility are yet to have been expanded on beyond what was put on STV on Sunday night. Unless Liverpool, the SFA or Hearts can prove anything new this is far from over.

According to BBC he wasn't on the bench.

I checked Liverpool's fixtures before the arsenal game and they had European games. Danny Wilson was on the bench on the home tie. Does European games not count as their rule about serving it in any competition.

 

 

There was never anything to say he was suspended for the game though. Your right about the Euro games though. If thats the case then he had already participated in official games.

 

Defiantly. All ICT need to do see the relevant documents to say yes he served it. Nothing of the such has been given.

End of the day, this isn't a personal vendetta on Hearts cause we lost the game. It's just ICT trying to defend itself from being cheated.

 

The way Hearts are run in general is a joke. They fail to pay players yet they are allowed to dish out fresh contracts to new signings (even if their loans). Its ridiculous. We have every right to fight this. The SFA can say all they want but unless they can provide any kind of written evidence to suggest he was actually suspended for a game as opposed to simply not being picked then this case is still wide open. The fact they dont have accurate details to suggest when and who it was served against makes me think they dont have what they need.

Edited January 29, 2013 by ajsict92