Romanians Attacked In Ireland

[Charles Bannerman]

This topic has been split off from the LOYALIST MARCH topic as it is a separate thing. The loyalist march topic was about a march in Inverness, these posts are about attacks in Ireland

In these modern, more tolerant, times

.... as exemplified by the Loyalist nutters in Northern Ireland who are now turning on the Romanian refugees in the hope of hounding them out? They've even vandalised a local church which gave the Romanians shelter. It's exactly the same mentality and Orange Lodge arrogance as they employ against the Catholics.... a vile sectarian mindset. It makes me feel quite sick that people like that should claim to declare "Loyalty" to the country of which I am a citizen. This is the BNP marching to the strains of Danny Boy. As I said much earlier in this thread, why didn't they just let the whole of Ireland go its own way in 1921? That might at least have given some of them who needed it a taste of what it's like to be an oppressed minority and tarred them with their own brush.

But what we're seeing here is quite simply the "Loyalists'" Romanian version of the Famine Song - "Communism is over, why don't you go home".

(PS - this is the view of someone who was "brung up a Proddy" and who has only ever been inside a Chapel for three Catholic funerals. That, by the way, is a "crime" which former Lord Chancellor Lord MacKay committed once and was chucked out of the Free Presbyterian Church - the Highlands' answer to religious intolerance.)

Edited June 26, 2009 by Scotty
adding a comment regarding the topic this was split from

[stevico1]

In these modern, more tolerant, times

.... as exemplified by the Loyalist nutters in Northern Ireland who are now turning on the Romanian refugees in the hope of hounding them out? They've even vandalised a local church which gave the Romanians shelter. It's exactly the same mentality and Orange Lodge arrogance as they employ against the Catholics.... a vile sectarian mindset. It makes me feel quite sick that people like that should claim to declare "Loyalty" to the country of which I am a citizen. This is the BNP marching to the strains of Danny Boy. As I said much earlier in this thread, why didn't they just let the whole of Ireland go its own way in 1921? That might at least have given some of them who needed it a taste of what it's like to be an oppressed minority and tarred them with their own brush.

But what we're seeing here is quite simply the "Loyalists'" Romanian version of the Famine Song - "Communism is over, why don't you go home".

(PS - this is the view of someone who was "brung up a Proddy" and who has only ever been inside a Chapel for three Catholic funerals. That, by the way, is a "crime" which former Lord Chancellor Lord MacKay committed once and was chucked out of the Free Presbyterian Church - the Highlands' answer to religious intolerance.)

:whip01:

Very well put Charles, particulary close to my heart as you know my wife comes from Romania, I lived there for over 7 years and was only ever made to feel welcome, it is with great shame that I see it on the headlines on the Romanian news how their people are been driven out of our modern and tolerant country.

Edited June 24, 2009 by stevico1

[absent friend]

I do not think the above is well put at all!!

The 'Loyalist Nutters' are two 15 year old boys and were doing things some 15 year old boys do! If they cannot find a grannie to mug, lets do the Romanians. To then give them any handle other than mindless laddies is a bit over the top.

I suppose in a land where all the people have strong religious ties, like the OF supporters, someone had to bring up the camp to which these boys belong and use that as a brand image. Thank Heavens it was not one from each side, a reporters nightmare over there.

I have had first hand experience of both sides of the devide and believe me, if you are comparing their degrees of badness, as they say here in Aberdeen, didna bither! One is as bad as the other.

It is a small number of people on both sides, along with the press, that create the atmosphere. The people of N Ireland are remarkably untarnished and try to lead a normal life.

[stevico1]

I do not think the above is well put at all!!

The 'Loyalist Nutters' are two 15 year old boys and were doing things some 15 year old boys do! If they cannot find a grannie to mug, lets do the Romanians. To then give them any handle other than mindless laddies is a bit over the top.

Two mindless laddies give me a break, they brandished a gun to one of the Romanian families, 100 Romanians moved to safety was not because of the work of just 2 laddies as you put it

[absent friend]

Stevico1

You will perhaps know better but the report on TV said two 15 year olds were arrested and I watched them going into custody. The gun I have not read about but they would have to be mindless to have a gun in the first place.

I have also seen the houses with the broken windows, as well as the church hall, so are you suggesting that this was the work of the Loyalist Army and they are now improving their standing in the community by throwing stones?

Bombs? Guns? No we just throw some stones now!!

[Guest birdog]

This is a very sad reflection on today's British society, we need these people coming into our country. We need the skills which they have, skills which were lost to our people due to government cuts in the funding of training and apprenticeships. People coming into our country can do us a great service but the press have turned the public against them, the sensationalised stories of immigration have created a major divide between British people and the people who have been invited here to help out our economy. The press are only interested in selling newspapers and to do that creating high emotional states seems to be an accepted tactic. Newspaper editors don't want to differentiate between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants because it is not good business. The same editors who run stories on the fact that the UK has elected two BNP MEPs are the ones who have put the BNP in the position they are in by demonising all immigrants, stories are written in such a way that immigration has become a major political point and the likes of the BNP pick up on this, giving them the ammunition to twist peoples minds.

It is a sad state of affairs but unless something, I don't know what, is done there is a danger of these attacks spreading. Immigrants are being attacked every day in this country, not just Ulster, and it has to stop before we have a full scale race war on our hands.

[SMEE]

Well....I dont think that immigrants are quite the victims they are made out to be at times.

The underlying reasons for the attacks was because of trouble started by Polish fans against N Ireland earlier in the year. Since then, there has apparently been a lot of bad feeling between locals AND eastern europeans.

I have said a number of times on here, of the negative experiences i have had with certain sections of the immigrant population. So much so, I actually came close to decking one guy one day. But if i had...it of course would have been a racially motivated attack etc etc!

I was sat on the bus one day, when two immigrants sat on the bus, and procceded to take the p1ss out of a young asian guy on the bus.

So, some of these people are not quite as innocent as some people like to make out.

Also....as a wee footnote, government figures are showing an increase in crime, along with a rising number of these crimes being commited by immigrants!

I share the Australian view, which is, unless "immigrants" have something that benefits the country, then turn them away! And for the record, the Romanians in N Ireland were refugees and not economic migrants!

And before the "racist" slurs are bandied about, I can inform you that i have had black friends, mixed race freinds, Indian friends, Asian friends, and i think ethnic women are the most gorgeous on this planet!!

Edited June 26, 2009 by SMEE

[Guest birdog]

Well....I dont think that immigrants are quite the victims they are made out to be at times.

The underlying reasons for the attacks was because of trouble started by Polish fans against N Ireland earlier in the year. Since then, there has apparently been a lot of bad feeling between locals AND eastern europeans.

I have said a number of times on here, of the negative experiences i have had with certain sections of the immigrant population. So much so, I actually came close to decking one guy one day. But if i had...it of course would have been a racially motivated attack etc etc!

I was sat on the bus one day, when two immigrants sat on the bus, and procceded to take the p1ss out of a young asian guy on the bus.

So, some of these people are not quite as innocent as some people like to make out.

I accept that but there are good and bad in all societies and communities. We have Polish workers next door to us, they work in the slaughter house which tries to employ as many locals as possible but, understandably, the job is not very desirable. These guys are courteous, freindly, and always welcome you with a smile. They also socialise very well with the locals and have integrated into the area with no problems.

[SMEE]

Well....I dont think that immigrants are quite the victims they are made out to be at times.

The underlying reasons for the attacks was because of trouble started by Polish fans against N Ireland earlier in the year. Since then, there has apparently been a lot of bad feeling between locals AND eastern europeans.

I have said a number of times on here, of the negative experiences i have had with certain sections of the immigrant population. So much so, I actually came close to decking one guy one day. But if i had...it of course would have been a racially motivated attack etc etc!

I was sat on the bus one day, when two immigrants sat on the bus, and procceded to take the p1ss out of a young asian guy on the bus.

So, some of these people are not quite as innocent as some people like to make out.

I accept that but there are good and bad in all societies and communities. We have Polish workers next door to us, they work in the slaughter house which tries to employ as many locals as possible but, understandably, the job is not very desirable. These guys are courteous, freindly, and always welcome you with a smile. They also socialise very well with the locals and have integrated into the area with no problems.

Yeah Birdy, there are good and bad in ALL societies, as you say. I know there are people with positive experiences with immigrants. But, i have only had negative or (shall we say) less than positive experiences with them. Im not expecting the earth, even just basic common courtesy.

The neighbours you mention are in direct contrast to the neighbours from foriegn shores i used to have....and there was at least 10-15 of them over the course of time!

[absent friend]

My simplistic thinking relates to older people in Scotland.

My two lots of grand parents had a total of 9 children between them. My parents then again produced the average, at that time, 4 children. We, in turn, have produced 8 only, instead of the expected 16 as per our historic family production. That 8 have only produced 3 to date - this figure should be 64 if we had all followed our historic production levels.

Now if we look at my family as being the norm with lowering birth rates, the situation unfolds as follows.

Grandparents had many offsprings making money to support the system they needed into old age.

Parents had no great problem.

We, however, will have bread and water unless we tax the poor working souls at 75% to pay for our bum wipes, improved medical treatment, etc.

So, the solution, bring in the immigrants, redress the balance, have them work, pay tax and 'hey presto' my water is turned into wine!

Good, eh!

Anyone reading the above and suggesting a blue pill at 60/65 to solve the problem - think hard about that - the demise of your favourite football team. If all the sweetie rustlers got blue pills the club support would reduce by 50%, this would not really affect the catering profit but loads of 'pennies' would be lost.

The noise level would be greatly reduced, no more sweetie rustling and all the excellent constructive comments would no longer be heard ''Babsie Grant would have had a hat trick by now'' ''Where's Juppie when you need him'' ''Rodwell would have threaded that one through that gap'' ''Jimi Jabi? Give me Jimmy Hogg anyday'' and lastly ''In my day the players all worked for a living! This lot.... bloody pansies.........!!''

[dead_ball_specialist]

we need these people coming into our country. We need the skills which they have,

Can you please expand upon the 'key skills' that the romani gypsie community brings to our shores. (I have mis-spelled gypsie as for some reason the correct spelling is classed as a swear word on this forum, and blanked out)

Edited June 26, 2009 by dead_ball_specialist

[Caley Stan]

Well....I dont think that immigrants are quite the victims they are made out to be at times.

The underlying reasons for the attacks was because of trouble started by Polish fans against N Ireland earlier in the year. Since then, there has apparently been a lot of bad feeling between locals AND eastern europeans.

I have said a number of times on here, of the negative experiences i have had with certain sections of the immigrant population. So much so, I actually came close to decking one guy one day. But if i had...it of course would have been a racially motivated attack etc etc!

I was sat on the bus one day, when two immigrants sat on the bus, and procceded to take the p1ss out of a young asian guy on the bus.

So, some of these people are not quite as innocent as some people like to make out.

Also....as a wee footnote, government figures are showing an increase in crime, along with a rising number of these crimes being commited by immigrants!

I share the Australian view, which is, unless "immigrants" have something that benefits the country, then turn them away! And for the record, the Romanians in N Ireland were refugees and not economic migrants!

And before the "racist" slurs are bandied about, I can inform you that i have had black friends, mixed race freinds, Indian friends, Asian friends, and i think ethnic women are the most gorgeous on this planet!!

SMEE, that is one of the most horrible, small-minded, and ill-informed posts i have ever seen on these forums. Who do you have in mind when you use the word "immigrants"? Is it the Poles and Italians who settleed in the UK towards the end of Second World War? Or maybe you mean the Asians and West Indians who came to the country in huge numbers after the war. Perhaps you're referring to the thousands of African asylum seekers who have come to the UK fleeing persecution, or people from Eastern Europe who now have right to freedom of movement throughout the EU.

If you look even further back into the history of this island, then you'll discover that it is a history of immigration. Picts, Celts, Angles, Saxons - they were all ******* immigrants. There is also the long history of Scottish emigration to consider. Many Scots left these shores fleeing poverty and searching for a better life. I don't think you should deny other people the opportunity to do the same here just because you didn't like a couple of people that you saw on a bus.

[SMEE]

I couldnt care less what you think of my post Stan. My opinions are formed from actual experiences.....and as far as i know...i am free to hold whatever views i like! And to clarify, the experiences to which i refer, are with eastern europeans. Hope that makes it clearer for you.

Would you care to point out which part of my posts were ill informed?

[stevico1]

The fact is whether they were Romani Gypsies or not doesn't mean that violence against them should be tolerated. While Romania Gypsies are a minority in Romania I did not have one problem with them during my years in Romania. In Romania they have a hard life, its almost impossible for them to get a job and if I was in their position and I could leave to a country where my life was made a bit easier I would. Its not them thats at fault, its the system they live in Romania that is. The only thing they are guilty of is trying to make a better life for their family.

[stevico1]

I couldnt care less what you think of my post Stan. My opinions are formed from actual experiences.....and as far as i know...i am free to hold whatever views i like! And to clarify, the experiences to which i refer, are with eastern europeans.

Smee you havent met my wife hopefully you would then change your opinion of East Europeans

[Caley Stan]

I couldnt care less what you think of my post Stan. My opinions are formed from actual experiences.....and as far as i know...i am free to hold whatever views i like! And to clarify, the experiences to which i refer, are with eastern europeans. Hope that makes it clearer for you.

Would you care to point out which part of my posts were ill informed?

Of`course you're entitled to your views SMEE, just as i'm entitled to find them ignorant and disgusting. It seems that you have taken your experiences with a few Eastern Europeans and come to conclusions about "immigrants" in general.

[SMEE]

I agree wi ya stevie...I have nothing against ANY one race of people. It just so happens that all my experiences with eastern europeans have been negative. That may change...who knows...maybe my mates new polish gf will change that? And for the record...had these experiences been with Scottish...English, Irish, American, Australians, they would have still had the same impact on me. Just so happens these things have all happened with eastern europeans!

[latviaman]

I agree wi ya stevie...I have nothing against ANY one race of people. It just so happens that all my experiences with eastern europeans have been negative. That may change...who knows...maybe my mates new polish gf will change that? And for the record...had these experiences been with Scottish...English, Irish, American, Australians, they would have still had the same impact on me. Just so happens these things have all happened with eastern europeans!

Well all you guys, as you know I live in Latvia , now officially the poorest country in Europe. I have been here for a number of years now, and from personal experience I can with hand on heart can say I have never met more welcoming kind people. Of course we have problems with wee nutters here too, but the police seem rather more "hands on" and any hassle/ problems are knocked in the bud. Altough the police suffered a 20% pay cut this year, they still seem to be doing the job.

As to the Irish thing, when Latvia played Northern Ireland a load of Irish came over and the crack was great, we played against a supporters team, I think they were on the beer as we won , I lost count after 6. But no animosity they all had a great time, in fact some came back with there wives to see Latvia and not the bars this year.

[SMEE]

Not only was the Polish fans cited as the reason for underlying tension in Belfast. But i seem to remember, Polish fans going on a rampage here in Inverness last year, during the Euro Championships, after getting beat by Germany. A number of cars were damaged and fires were lit. But , no doubt Caley Stan will come on here and tell me that I am ill informed again!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

The fact is whether they were Romani Gypsies or not doesn't mean that violence against them should be tolerated. While Romania Gypsies are a minority in Romania I did not have one problem with them during my years in Romania. In Romania they have a hard life, its almost impossible for them to get a job and if I was in their position and I could leave to a country where my life was made a bit easier I would. Its not them thats at fault, its the system they live in Romania that is. The only thing they are guilty of is trying to make a better life for their family.

Romani Gypsies - now where have I heard that before ? I would be careful of the terminology you use in case it is viewed as being racist or defamatory.

[Charles Bannerman]

This topic has been split off from the LOYALIST MARCH topic as it is a separate thing. The loyalist march topic was about a march in Inverness, these posts are about attacks in Ireland

I find it interesting that the above - presumably the contribution of a moderator - should, when a response is made, come up as a quote from me since this is very far from my viewpoint. I actually made the initial post about the treatment of the Romanians in Northern Ireland exactly because this kind of behaviour and psychology precisely mirror activities like the Apprentice Boys March. There is in fact a very strong common factor since here are two definite cases of an "in group" oppressing an "out group".

In the case of the Apprentice Boys we have the majority Protestant group in Northern Ireland reverting to the celebration of some kind of perceived "triumph" of the (distant) past to attempt to marginalise and to assert their superiority over the minority Catholic population. However, in the case of the Inverness march they seem to want to export their nonsensical bigoted tribalism from Northern Ireland to a place where it has no meaning whatsoever (outwith the Portland Club.)

Turning to the way the Romanians have been treated, this is exactly the same kind of psychology being manifested by the same people on a different minority group, and indeed this was referred to frequently in a number of news reports on the issue. The tragic thing is that this kind of intolerant "thinking" appears to have become deeply engraved on Northern Irish Protestant psychology as a whole and almost become second nature. As a result I would contend that there was no need to split this thread since both sections are essential parts of the same thing.

Responding to another post on this (split) thread, I have only ever met three Romanians - Mr and Mrs Niculae and Mrs Stevico. They were all absolutely charming. Indeed some of the Irish bigots who have got themseles into trouble with the police over this might even be tempted to seek the services of Mrs Niculae, who happens to be a highly trained lawyer.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Charles Bannerman

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

I've read numerous reports on this and have yet to see the religion of the attackers mentioned , how do you know they are Protestant Charles ?

[Johnboy]

I've read numerous reports on this and have yet to see the religion of the attackers mentioned , how do you know they are Protestant Charles ?

He's got a point there, Charles....

Belfast Press Report

A man was charged today with intimidating Romanian people in Belfast, as it emerged that 100 migrants from the country had decided to leave Northern Ireland for good.

Twenty-five Romanians have left and 75 are to return to their home country after racist attacks, Margaret Ritchie, Northern Ireland's development minister, said.

Police are also investigating an attack on a church that gave 114 Romanians shelter last week after they were driven out of their homes.

Shane Murphy, 21, of Belfast, appeared at the city's magistrates court to face charges of intimidation and threatening behaviour. He denied the charges.

Murphy also denied acting provocatively by shouting racist comments at a rally held in the city last week. The magistrate refused a bail application, saying there was a danger Murphy could interfere with witnesses.

[Charles Bannerman]

I've read numerous reports on this and have yet to see the religion of the attackers mentioned , how do you know they are Protestant Charles ?

You must have been reading very different accounts of this series of incidents from the ones I have, such as the one I've cut and pasted this from...

Three Protestant teens and men have been charged with intimidating Romanians from their homes, and police are questioning two more youths aged 15 and 16 on suspicion of involvement.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Charles Bannerman

[stevico1]

This topic has been split off from the LOYALIST MARCH topic as it is a separate thing. The loyalist march topic was about a march in Inverness, these posts are about attacks in Ireland

Responding to another post on this (split) thread, I have only ever met three Romanians - Mr and Mrs Niculae and Mrs Stevico. They were all absolutely charming. Indeed some of the Irish bigots who have got themseles into trouble with the police over this might even be tempted to seek the services of Mrs Niculae, who happens to be a highly trained lawyer.

Thank you Charles, thats a pint I owe you

Edited July 1, 2009 by stevico1