Is the G-word racist?

[Joonya]

One thing that was shocking - which I think someone pointed out earlier - was the lady steward in question refused anyone a seat at the back of section G if they didnt have a ticket there. She said they'd be escorted out if they did, or if they used the dreaded 'G' word...

I dont attend many games these days, mostly due to work commitments, but when I do I like to get involved in the chants, the banter and the general matchday experience. Unfortunately I had to take an alternate seat next to an older lady, who didnt seem too impressed I was up chanting with the rest at every opertunity.

Undertand their point of view had the game been a sell out, but surely all those who usually chant could sit together and get the crowd going (a crowd with I think were indeed the 12th man yesterday - all except one bloke who critisised every touch of the ball and was getting right on my teets!!!)

[Glen Mhor]

Oh dear, the world (and the club for that matter) has gone mad. Mad, mad, mad !

:022:

[+DoofersDad]

Undertand their point of view had the game been a sell out, but surely all those who usually chant could sit together and get the crowd going (a crowd with I think were indeed the 12th man yesterday)

Well said. These chants are just part and parcel of the game and nobody should take offence. Whilst the youngsters were trying to sing and generate some atmosphere, there were many others hurling abuse at the team but apparently that's OK.

But there is a real lack of consistency. If sanctions are taken against the fans then are they also going to take action against the players? When Duncan's error led to the 2nd goal I don't think Ryan Esson said "Bad luck Russell, old chap. I'm sure the gaffer will have a jolly good laugh in the dressing room about that at half time"

3 or 4 years ago there was a youth international or B international at the stadium - I can't remember which - and it was a freezing winter night. I sat away in the corner right at the back to shelter from the wind. Nobody was within 10 yards of me. During the game I stood up to get the circulation going and to stop my *rse freezing to the seat. A female steward saw me and walked up all the steps in the stand and told me to sit down.

Lets have some common sense here and actually encourage the young lads to support the team by making as much noise as possible and to have some good natured fun.

[L_G]

On a side note, was there anyone in the Main stand who hear McCall's comments. Something like never mind they are only a bunch of Sheep Sh****rs. If so I would encourage you to report this as it is just as bad (worse as it apparently came from an oposing manager)

[caleykid1994]

One thing that was shocking - which I think someone pointed out earlier - was the lady steward in question refused anyone a seat at the back of section G if they didnt have a ticket there. She said they'd be escorted out if they did, or if they used the dreaded 'G' word...

I dont attend many games these days, mostly due to work commitments, but when I do I like to get involved in the chants, the banter and the general matchday experience. Unfortunately I had to take an alternate seat next to an older lady, who didnt seem too impressed I was up chanting with the rest at every opertunity.

Undertand their point of view had the game been a sell out, but surely all those who usually chant could sit together and get the crowd going (a crowd with I think were indeed the 12th man yesterday - all except one bloke who critisised every touch of the ball and was getting right on my teets!!!)

yeh i dont mind him, hes actually funny to listen to when he goes on about the club and actually every point he brings up is true.

Now for the "abuse" against LDZ. Towards the latter stages of the County game, many people in sections c,d & e in the north stand were booing him when ever he touched the ball simply for the way he had played. No racial discrimination was there, he just played poo. Us in Section G were balling at them for booing but i could understand why.

And as i said before, this game on sunday will become a powderkeg if this isnt straightened before then. I very much doubt ICT will want bigwigs from the central belt watching a game which will be LIVE on TV all over Scotland(and beyond?) and seeing ICT fans clashing with what i can see is being Stewards and Police.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

On a side note, was there anyone in the Main stand who hear McCall's comments. Something like never mind they are only a bunch of Sheep Sh****rs. If so I would encourage you to report this as it is just as bad (worse as it apparently came from an oposing manager)

I would encourage you not to , its called firing your team up for the battle . All this reporting of each other over feck all is whats killing the little atmosphere there is at the game .

[L_G]

That's my point entirely. If our fans are being threatened with ejection, arrest and stadium bans, then the same must apply to the oposition. I'm not saying for 1 minute that I agree with it, but we must have a level playing field.

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

That's my point entirely. If our fans are being threatened with ejection, arrest and stadium bans, then the same must apply to the oposition. I'm not saying for 1 minute that I agree with it, but we must have a level playing field.

Its our own club thats threatening the bans etc. Do you honestly think they'd ban an opposition manager ?

Edited September 27, 2009 by DALNEIGHCALEY

[Proctor]

This topic has made me quite angry. We as a group of fans are often slated and called a number of unpleasent names yet we can't have a bit of banter back? I very much doubt that County fans will get lifetime bns from Victoria Park for singing "their tinky and their smelly......." I think the club would be idiotic to to take any sort of action towards light hearted banter such as this. If they do then they will certainly have to cope without my season ticket money next year amonst other people's I'm sure. They are targeting young, dedicated fans who if they are anything like me want to support their team both home and away and when the time comes take their children to matches. The minority who were offended by what goes on in the stand have to option to sit in any other of the incfeasing empty seasts in the ground. This is an ideal example of the attempted sanitisation of modern day sociaty and something which will not only drive youjng people away from footall, but yojng people from Britian. Like I said earlier, the club will have to do without my season ticket money and exta money on programmes, replica tops etcif they choose to give into te minority and kill another part of the decreasing match day experiance. I am not a two bain celled simpleton or a bigot, if I was I would highly doubt I would be typing this from university halls, I will happily put these words in writing or verbally to the club.

[L_G]

That's my point entirely. If our fans are being threatened with ejection, arrest and stadium bans, then the same must apply to the oposition. I'm not saying for 1 minute that I agree with it, but we must have a level playing field.

Its our own club thats threatening the bans etc. Do you honestly think they'd ban an opposition manager ?

No but th SFA would have to take some action

[Pele_Is_God]

The SFA have bigger fish to fry. Agree with you though L_G, why should he get away with it? Everyone knows Mccall is a idiot you just have to listen to him on the BBC.

[Proctor]

The BBC are terrible for ignorant comments. Chic Young made a howler on Saturday when he was covering the Lossimouth vs Newtan Stewart game claiming that watches hadn't reached Moreyshire yet. I agree that the SFA have bigger fish to try than the aforementioned comment or us having a laugh at the game.

[highlandexile]

I assume you're referring to the word "Gypsy"?

Myself and a couple of other Supporters Trust Board members met with the club regarding this matter earlier in the week and I would be very interested in hearing exactly what happened today.

Could those involved PM me and give me a clearer explanation of who said what to you today?

If the trust already knew there was an issue why was that not communicated to the fans either on this website or the trusts?

What was said by the club at that meeting and what is the trusts take on the subsequest goings on at the Partick game. Is there a follow up meeting arranged prior to the county game and if so will this be communicated to the fans?

[ICTFCkev]

When some of the lads said they wanted a meeting after the game, they were told to stay where they were then, and they would be taken to Smiffy's office post match.

They did so, and when they were taken up someone else turned up and told them they wouldn't be able to talk to him, but to leave contact details and they'd arrange a meeting through the week. Dunno if anything more came of it though..?

Game against the Gypos this Sunday could be very interesting.. :)

[L_G]

Some of the section G boys have requested a meeting with the Football Club and the Supporters Trust will be happy to attend such a meeting to assist wherever possible. The feedback from the meeting will certainly be made available. To be fair we didn't feel that there was any communication necessarry following the recent meeting between the Football Club and the Trust.

I take my hat of to the lads mentioned above who have been pro active in seeking a meeting. I hope that some common ground can be found.

I'm sure for evey complaint emerging from section G, there would be 10 or 100 times support for the lads who try their best to create an atmosphere, which is essential at the games. We cannot and should not be expected to accept racist or sectarian behaviour, but I don't believe we have a problem in these areas.

The Supporters Trust e-mail address is info@ictsupporterstrust.co.uk, you can PM CaleyD or myself or give us a call on the Trust mobile 07879221569 if you have any comments on this.

[L_G]

When some of the lads said they wanted a meeting after the game, they were told to stay where they were then, and they would be taken to Smiffy's office post match.

They did so, and when they were taken up someone else turned up and told them they wouldn't be able to talk to him, but to leave contact details and they'd arrange a meeting through the week. Dunno if anything more came of it though..?

Game against the Gypos this Sunday could be very interesting.. :)

I'm sure the meeting will go ahead. It's really busy around reception post match, so it wouldn't have been a good time to meet. I also feel it's better to go in with cool heads a day or 2 later. I was at reception when the boys came in and I think taking their numbers to arrange a meeting was exactly the right thing to do. Hope it is sorted out soon though

[mainstander]

I realy dont want to make a jugement one way or the other on this but maybe the starting point of any debate should be the acceptibility or otherwise of what was REALLY said. What I heard coming from the north stand and with large numbers of Caley fans taking part were very loud, clear and repeated chants of "Effing Gypsy B*****ds".

As I said, Im not going to judge but lets at least base any debate on what was actually said and not the rather watered down suggestion made by the title of this thread and in some other posts. Then we should decide whether thats acceptible.

[Alex MacLeod]

On the point in topic lets be serious for a moment. The word Gypsy in itself is not racist. Gypsy Travellers have no problem in being called Gypsies or Travellers. That is what they are. The problem arises, and this is a point of law and not a club or SFA thing, when phrases like 'gypsy b******', thieving gypsy so and so, gypo, pikie etc. are used. Gypsies have been recognised, in law, as being a separate race of peoples and, as such, are afforded the same protection under rascist law as any other minority group in this country.

People can, and will, think it's all a bit of fun with no harm meant but ask yourselves this. Would you walk down Academy street shouting 'Paki bas**** or black fu****? No, because you could well find yourself being jailed. Same applies with Gypsy name calling. Do it and get caught doing it and the consequences are the same.

That is the way of the law and the club must be seen to be upholding the law, or face sanctions so please think on before someone decides to make a test case against us.

If you need further guidlines on this you can get it here

[L_G]

I realy dont want to make a jugement one way or the other on this but maybe the starting point of any debate should be the acceptibility or otherwise of what was REALLY said. What I heard coming from the north stand and with large numbers of Caley fans taking part were very loud, clear and repeated chants of "Effing Gypsy B*****ds".

As I said, Im not going to judge but lets at least base any debate on what was actually said and not the rather watered down suggestion made by the title of this thread and in some other posts. Then we should decide whether thats acceptible.

Like yourself mainstander, I'm not judging. What must happen though is that we must treat unacceptable behaviour in the away stands in the same way. I'm not even being specific but on this occasion do you honestly believe that there won't be bad words ringing out from the away support. I acknowledge that there is a fine line between banter and abuse, but we need to clarify where the line is drawn.

[Joonya]

All references to "effing gypsy bar stewards" are surely incorporated into a chant to encourage banter between supporters and create the whole matchday atmosphere?

It's not as though the whole crowd stood up and shouted it as though they were about to start a riot!

[mainstander]

All references to "effing gypsy bar stewards" are surely incorporated into a chant to encourage banter between supporters and create the whole matchday atmosphere?

What planet are you on? You seem to have raided the Rangers Book of Excuses for Antiesocial Beavoiur - Number 1690.

[old caley girl]

If this is true it is absolutely ridiculous.

If these people are so offended they have no place at a football match I'm afraid. I'm all for family sections and what not, anything to encourage kids and extra folk along, but if this nanny state culture is what the by-product is then the very essence of football supporting is changing too much for my liking. Political correctness really is the greatest scourge of modern society, Mary Whitehouse has a lot to answer for!

Who complained? Is this a personal opinion of Mike Smith or has the SFA/SFL told ICT to clamp down? We're not exactly the loudest or most passionate set of supporters in the country anyway so can't imagine the crowd behaviour at TCS is an issue at Hampden for anyone.

I take my kids to the matches and dont have any problem with this. I dont want them to grow up in a pc culture in which they are afraid to speak. I would never condone racism and in fact habve heard racial abuse being hurled at Lionel at the end of the last season. The "gentleman" involved was sitting in front of me and was challenged re what he said. I did consider reporting this to the club but he was not a season ticket holder so there did not seem to be much point. However, people should not be afraid to criticise someone just because of their colour. Lionel was awful at the last county match and I dont think the booing had anything to do with his colour.

However, i think the club have to tow the line here now if not a big fine may follow. On the other issue of the seats surely we should be encouraging the singers to sit together. We sat with friends in empty seats 2nd half on Sat what harm is being done?

Dreading Sunday now may not be very pleasant atmosphere now. Also re Iain McColl well if we must have this pc culture well rules should apply to all but personally couldnt care less what he calls us.

[Guest birdog]

The strange thing here is that when the team are doing badly during a season the fans seem to be singled out for attack from the club, is this deflection tactics? Give us something else to moan about and it takes away some pressure from the team? Just something for you all to think about.

[davie]

Hold on a minute. Of course the G word is racist. Of course it's said with venom. Of course it's shouted loudly. It's because it's a FOOTBALL MATCH. It's a tribe thing. it's a gladatorial contest where your champions face up to theirs, but instead of killing each other, they kick a ball and we, the supporters, will them on. Get that kind of emotional involvement and people will say and do things that they ordinarily wouldn't. I don't think many (if any) of the section G people would shout "g word abuse" at anyone outside of the ground, regardless of where they were from. Generally speaking, these boys are treated very badly by the stewards (Caley 100, remember your brewster out banner)

As for mainstander, I take exception to your flippant 1690 quote. There are never an average of 2 murders after any of our games, A&E is never overwhelmed, people do not spout the kind of genuinely held belief bile that they do. Maintain perspective please, and Section G, more power to you.

Edited September 28, 2009 by davie

[Joonya]

All references to "effing gypsy bar stewards" are surely incorporated into a chant to encourage banter between supporters and create the whole matchday atmosphere?

What planet are you on? You seem to have raided the Rangers Book of Excuses for Antiesocial Beavoiur - Number 1690.

and your argument to this topic is what? that chants between ourselves and those over the bridge should stop because one or two people (out of the thousands who have attended these games over the decades) have complained?

unless of course you're read the IHE Book of Fishing