ICT -V- St Mirren : Matchday Thread

[TSTtiger]

Anyone at the game would probably agree we were not fortunate to win, it was fully deserved. It could though be argued we were fortunate that our misses didn't cost us the win, but it still doesn't make it a lucky win in my book.

[TopSix]

If Tad? can hit the target and score the goal to win games I'll be very happy. I reckon Andrew Shinnie will be a very good player for us and we still have Billy McKay to come in to the side. Just be thankful we're not Dunfermline - relying on barrowman for goals :biggrin:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Like some other posters, I really fail to see why there is so much unrelenting negativity against some of the players. Sure Tade had 3 bad misses yesyerday, and on another day this could have come back to haunt us but id didn't.

a good example of a blinding loyal and displaying the view that we were fortunate - as on another day....

What some people have to remember is that to score goals, you have to be in the correct positions and make the correct runs. Tade is doin this brilliantly but his finishing is letting him down and needs to get worked on pronto.

DOH i would have thought that the art of finishing was the main skill required of a goalscorer - many would say a natural skill

I the score had been 5-1 yesterday, it would not have been an injustice and the same could have been said for the Hearts match.

If is a strange word is it not ? But it wasnt 5-1 and that was because ?

Finally, a word about Andrew Shinnie yesterday. I admit to not being terribly impressed in previous games I have seen him play but yesterday he was tremendous and showed a great deal of skill in both linking play and getting forward.

mmmmmmmmmmmm - better - more pragmatic

All this tells me is that some fans need to take a look at themselves before resorting to shouting abuse at our players and appreciate how difficult it can be to plat football at time. It is a team game and the singling out of individuals at times, by sections of our support, is dreadful ans so counter productive.

a fine example of both the doom merchants and the concentrate only on the negatives factions

Anyone at the game would probably agree we were not fortunate to win, it was fully deserved. It could though be argued we were fortunate that our misses didn't cost us the win, but it still doesn't make it a lucky win in my book.

there is a subtle difference between fortunate and lucky and I am afraid as a forever optimist you have fallen in to the contradicting yourself characteristic - we were not fortunate to win / we were fortunate - suggest that you try and be more relective

If Tad? can hit the target and score the goal to win games I'll be very happy. I reckon Andrew Shinnie will be a very good player for us and we still have Billy McKay to come in to the side. Just be thankful we're not Dunfermline - relying on barrowman for goals

closest thing to a pragmatist yet - with a fine example of jocular sarcasm as well - go to the top of the class

[CaleyD]

I can only think that those who deemed todays win as "lucky" were not there to witness it for themselves.

For all those knocking our conversion rate....take a look around at Attempts v Goal ratios for other teams. ICT today had 9 attempts and scored 2...Rangers had 16 and scored 1...Man U had 17 and score 2 against Norwich who had 13 and scored none.

Thought todays game was thoroughly entertaining and I can certainly see why St Mirren have been doing so well as they play a nice passing game....but we contained that and limited them to 4 attempts at goal. What's more...for the vast majority of the game only one team ever looked like they were going to score, and it wasn't St Mirren.

Make no mistake, todays victory was not some fluke result against poorly performing opponents...it was a hard earned and thoroughly deserved win for the better team.

Not saying it was a perfect performance, but it was a winning performance and it does a dis-service to the players who secured the points to suggest otherwise.

Aye - a very positive perspective but not as "real" as RIG's . I feel that the large majority of punters - irresepective of attendance or not - are proclaiming that we were fortunate at the close to have gained the three points because of a practically inherent failure to score goals and/or to take chances. At the end of the day it is a very valuable three points and I am sure that all of us would have taken that outcome at the start. But to me it is as much about entertainment, performance and ma old adage of the "togetherness" factor. It sounds as if those constituents were more prevalent yesterday and that is the biggest positive from my perspective.

We scored more than they did...that's what won the game. The missed opportunities count for nothing if you have more goals when the final whistle blows.

The performance was there, the entertainment was there and the "togetherness" has never been lacking this season, IMO, so I fail to see what point you are trying to make in that regard.

We must have had lady luck on our side and why not - sounds like we deserved it. All I am in forboding manner is in regard to a fear that a certain state of complacency may prevail - e.g lets not change anything - as I and many others feel that we are still not utilising the depleted squad as we should be and that there is a feel of stubborn persisitence with some players and the overall tactical planning.

Had we only a couple of shots and scored and had St Mirren been peppering our goal and not scoring then I might buy into the "having lady luck on our side" argument...but that wasn't the case.

There's no sense of complacency with me. Like everyone else I have my opinions on team selection and tactics, I just don't see the point in trying to hammer team and/or manager with them off the back of a win. Whether or not I agreed with the selection/tactics yesterday counts for nothing. The team and tactics used won the game, and deservedly so, whether another team selection or set of tactics might have resulted in a higher win margin is neither here nor there.

This forum is to me all about different slants and opinions. There are the blinding loyal, the frustrated loyal, the forever optimists, the concentrate only on the positives or the negatives brigades, the pessimists, the doom merchants and the fishermen. There are some who are so stuck in their category that they fail to appreciate and consider an alternative view. Thank god that I am a reflective and analytical pragmatist.

I did consider your view. However, given the fact that you are hypothesising on matters you didn't witness for yourself and trying to undermine or ridicule the views of those who were there, then your view/opinion on anything other than the result count for little and certainly don't move to make me think twice about my view/opinion on the match.

You can stick that in whatever pigeon hole takes your fancy

[PullMyFinger]

At Raith Rovers Tad? had the same issue when 1 on 1. I believe will come good as the team gels better and first choice players return but possibly later rather than sooner.

[TSTtiger]

[quote name='IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER' timestamp='1317570606' post='318674'

Anyone at the game would probably agree we were not fortunate to win, it was fully deserved. It could though be argued we were fortunate that our misses didn't cost us the win, but it still doesn't make it a lucky win in my book.

there is a subtle difference between fortunate and lucky and I am afraid as a forever optimist you have fallen in to the contradicting yourself characteristic - we were not fortunate to win / we were fortunate - suggest that you try and be more relective

[TopSix]

I hate the boo boys. Wish they would all do one.

[WeAreSPL]

Our biggest problem is Foran wearing number 9.

A nice guy, well motivated, but SO far away from being a goal scoring centre forward it's unbelievable.

And he's no spring chicken so it's ridiculous to think he might suddenly improve.

Sadly he has great belief in himself and in Butcher's eyes he can do no wrong.

Yesterday we WERE lucky because, in the SPL, if you can't take a good proportion of your chances you usually lose.

[lukemackay]

Our biggest problem is Foran wearing number 9.

A nice guy, well motivated, but SO far away from being a goal scoring centre forward it's unbelievable.

And he's no spring chicken so it's ridiculous to think he might suddenly improve.

Sadly he has great belief in himself and in Butcher's eyes he can do no wrong.

Yesterday we WERE lucky because, in the SPL, if you can't take a good proportion of your chances you usually lose.

foran is a great target man though superb in the air and chips in with the assists despite not scoring every other week i reckon hes still a valuable member of the team and a great captain

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I can only think that those who deemed todays win as "lucky" were not there to witness it for themselves.

For all those knocking our conversion rate....take a look around at Attempts v Goal ratios for other teams. ICT today had 9 attempts and scored 2...Rangers had 16 and scored 1...Man U had 17 and score 2 against Norwich who had 13 and scored none.

Thought todays game was thoroughly entertaining and I can certainly see why St Mirren have been doing so well as they play a nice passing game....but we contained that and limited them to 4 attempts at goal. What's more...for the vast majority of the game only one team ever looked like they were going to score, and it wasn't St Mirren.

Make no mistake, todays victory was not some fluke result against poorly performing opponents...it was a hard earned and thoroughly deserved win for the better team.

Not saying it was a perfect performance, but it was a winning performance and it does a dis-service to the players who secured the points to suggest otherwise.

Aye - a very positive perspective but not as "real" as RIG's . I feel that the large majority of punters - irresepective of attendance or not - are proclaiming that we were fortunate at the close to have gained the three points because of a practically inherent failure to score goals and/or to take chances. At the end of the day it is a very valuable three points and I am sure that all of us would have taken that outcome at the start. But to me it is as much about entertainment, performance and ma old adage of the "togetherness" factor. It sounds as if those constituents were more prevalent yesterday and that is the biggest positive from my perspective.

We scored more than they did...that's what won the game. The missed opportunities count for nothing if you have more goals when the final whistle blows.

The performance was there, the entertainment was there and the "togetherness" has never been lacking this season, IMO, so I fail to see what point you are trying to make in that regard.

We must have had lady luck on our side and why not - sounds like we deserved it. All I am in forboding manner is in regard to a fear that a certain state of complacency may prevail - e.g lets not change anything - as I and many others feel that we are still not utilising the depleted squad as we should be and that there is a feel of stubborn persisitence with some players and the overall tactical planning.

Had we only a couple of shots and scored and had St Mirren been peppering our goal and not scoring then I might buy into the "having lady luck on our side" argument...but that wasn't the case.

There's no sense of complacency with me. Like everyone else I have my opinions on team selection and tactics, I just don't see the point in trying to hammer team and/or manager with them off the back of a win. Whether or not I agreed with the selection/tactics yesterday counts for nothing. The team and tactics used won the game, and deservedly so, whether another team selection or set of tactics might have resulted in a higher win margin is neither here nor there.

This forum is to me all about different slants and opinions. There are the blinding loyal, the frustrated loyal, the forever optimists, the concentrate only on the positives or the negatives brigades, the pessimists, the doom merchants and the fishermen. There are some who are so stuck in their category that they fail to appreciate and consider an alternative view. Thank god that I am a reflective and analytical pragmatist.

I did consider your view. However, given the fact that you are hypothesising on matters you didn't witness for yourself and trying to undermine or ridicule the views of those who were there, then your view/opinion on anything other than the result count for little and certainly don't move to make me think twice about my view/opinion on the match.

You can stick that in whatever pigeon hole takes your fancy

Oh dear - the category that is by far the worst to communicate with - the blind loyal who ars tunnel visioned and rarely wrong - from their perspective. I was pointing out that the sense of "togetherness" from my perspective and the games that I have witnessed - and a view shared by many others - but I was heartened that it appears to be returning and I appreciated your knowledgeable assessment of this.

The second response is a brilliant example to any students of the blinded loyal psyche.

The last response is a typically aggressive yet also a very defensive retort - using emotive vocabulary such as undermine and ridicule instead of realising that I am challenging and trying to stimulate healthy debate is another defense mechanism. I apologise if I have come across as being negative and threatening - perhaps the pigeon hole that I should utilise is the one that is closest to the cartoon character that I suspect that you may liken me to - Dick Dastardly.

[tm4tj]

Don't agree about the luck. There was no luck involved, we thrashed them end of story, in fact St Mirren fans believe they were lucky not to be on a hiding.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

At Raith Rovers Tad? had the same issue when 1 on 1. I believe will come good as the team gels better and first choice players return but possibly later rather than sooner.

Refreshing - Pragmatic optimism mixed with realism

Except there's no difference between fortunate and lucky. Maybe you had to be there , but being fortunate missed chances didn't cost us doesn't mean the win was lucky!. Suggest you don't overanalyse things ;)

DOH again - I never said it was lucky - I said that we were fortunate and Lady Luck was with us. But thank you for your concern

I hate the boo boys. Wish they would all do one.

WHOLLY CONCUR but they should be allowed to argue their point after the game

Our biggest problem is Foran wearing number 9.

A nice guy, well motivated, but SO far away from being a goal scoring centre forward it's unbelievable.

And he's no spring chicken so it's ridiculous to think he might suddenly improve.

Sadly he has great belief in himself and in Butcher's eyes he can do no wrong.

Yesterday we WERE lucky because, in the SPL, if you can't take a good proportion of your chances you usually lose.

Wow - an inbetweener - suspect it is the frustrated would be optimist = but too personal in many ways although the content is understandable if not debatable - and ends with a fairly good rationale as well

foran is a great target man though superb in the air and chips in with the assists despite not scoring every other week i reckon hes still a valuable member of the team and a great captain

Well defended young man even if the latter part of the sentence contadicts the opening statement - great to see the yoof being protective of would be "legends"

Don't agree about the luck. There was no luck involved, we thrashed them end of story, in fact St Mirren fans believe they were lucky not to be on a hiding.

Apologies as I was led to believe that the winning goal had a degree of luck attached to it. And I never realised that a 2-1 win could be graded as a thrashing. And if the Midden fans felt that they were lucky not to be on the receiving end of a hiding why didnt it actually happen ?

[Ronaldo]

I agree with this Huisden

IMO Tade is the most improved player we have and when he works on his finishing and can start taking more of his chances with all of these one on ones he keeps getting the fun will begin.

As you say his misses count for nothing yesterday as we got the three points, I don't care. I also noticed he tried to chip the goalie with the last one, nice to see, maybe he's getting more composed.

For me, special mention for Davis, although he did fade a bit this guy is real find.

[starchief]

That boy Shinnie. What a player! He was everywhere. Tackling in defence. Up front with the attackers. Out on the wing. You'd think there was two of him!

(apologies to Denis Law and the de Boer brothers for plagiarism)

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I agree with this Huisden

IMO Tade is the most improved player we have and when he works on his finishing and can start taking more of his chances with all of these one on ones he keeps getting the fun will begin.

As you say his misses count for nothing yesterday as we got the three points, I don't care. I also noticed he tried to chip the goalie with the last one, nice to see, maybe he's getting more composed.

For me, special mention for Davis, although he did fade a bit this guy is real find.

Oh optimistic one - I agree but can you really work on and develop finishing or do you look to using his strengths in other departments - Davis goes at Crimbo.

[TSTtiger]

Except there's no difference between fortunate and lucky. Maybe you had to be there , but being fortunate missed chances didn't cost us doesn't mean the win was lucky!. Suggest you don't overanalyse things ;)

DOH again - I never said it was lucky - I said that we were fortunate and Lady Luck was with us. But thank you for your concern

Lol , welcome. So fortunate, not lucky but in the presence of lady luck, nice!

[tm4tj]

Apology accepted.

It never happened because of luck, bad luck. You have to be in it to win it and we gave them a decent going over.

[12th Man]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/15142500.stm

I see they didnt show all of the attempts our strikers had as its only a 5 min slot.

Was also good for the school pupils attending to get a mention, they'll be going home with lots of stories to tell their pals and parents.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Lol , welcome. So fortunate, not lucky but in the presence of lady luck, nice!

Thank you - I hope that I have assisted in clearing up your contradictions and comprehension of language and meaning - "Throw a lucky man in the sea, and he will come up with a fish in his mouth."

It never happened because of luck, bad luck. You have to be in it to win it and we gave them a decent going over.

DOH - so Tade was unlucky now and so many posters are under the belief that he is a poor finisher !! DOH - of course you have to be in it to win it !! But I understand now - 2-1 isnt a hiding - it is simply a decent going over :rotflmao:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/15142500.stm

I see they didnt show all of the attempts our strikers had as its only a 5 min slot.

Was also good for the school pupils attending to get a mention, they'll be going home with lots of stories to tell their pals and parents.

Jhesus - how feckin lucky were we ?

[tm4tj]

No, he wasn't unlucky, he gave his all and his finishing was poor, but overall we were not lucky to win, but they were lucky to not have been on a drubbing. Their fans know it, their players know it and their manager knows it, so why do some of our own fans question it, doh back at you.

[Georgeios]

We Won!!! I am like some getting sicker with the BOO winging Cnuts however.... Tade, Foran and Ross missed a few sitters so what... our winning goal wasnt the best but i honestly dont care how it goes in, as long as it does.

Over all, we played a great game of football, we could have been 3 up with in the first 10 mins, we were unlucky that the St's first attempt was...... turned in to a courner (Dame you defence for stopping that going in) n was converted in to a goal, but hey lol.

Im glad the A Shinnie haters can now see what he has in his reserve, his goal was a cracking shot from a little out and seeing the look he had when Foran layed the ball of to him I knew it was going in.

WELL DONE LADS!!! 5 points from 3 home games LETS GET IT ON!!

Oh n i am a Rooney Fan, and those that are on his replacements back.... lets not forget Rooneys Dry patches that we went through with him too....

[Scotty]

landed a few big ones this weekend IHE

[tm4tj]

I think he needs the men in white coats to strap him back into his bed for dishing out misleading information regarding the performance of our team and the ease at which we brushed a much improved St Mirren aside. 2-1 certainly flattered them.

[TopSix]

Good work IHE... Didn't realise this was your pastime when you can't get to games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aw7-Tsl_U58&feature=player_embedded#!

Edited October 3, 2011 by Top Six Next Year