Gary Warren ?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Well I look at this as being an "encouraging" sign plus a potentially good player. Of course there are going to be early door "jitters" but he is joining us at the start of the pre-season. Also it goes to show what a "pull" Butcher still has down South. Lets hope that he supports this guy and finds the correct "match" for him and gives him a feckin run even if he does feck up initially.

Morrison's return plus this guy can only be positive.

[SMEE]

Lets give Gary a chance (assuming he signs for us). Let us not forget, many, many of ICT's all time legends hail from The Highland League and managed to more than compete at a much higher level!!

[Oddquine]

If he reads this forum, he'll be off down the road running as if all the banshees from hell were at his heels.

If what I have read from so many has been produced when he hasn't yet pulled on a football boot and placed it on the hallowed turf of the Tulloch Caledonian stadium, what the hell is he going to be subjected to if he misplaces a pass, as many legends have, or punts a high ball to nobody, as many legends have, or skimmed a ball over the crossbar, as many legends have, or been red carded early in a match as many legends have?

If you all want to do pessimism and misery, take it to P&B.....that is the place nobody with an ounce of intelligence takes seriously.

This place represents Inverness Caledonian Thistle on the internet...and it does not give anybody reading it a good impression of the fans of the club.

[ICTPaisley]

I think you'll find most of us have welcomed Gary and look forward to what he can bring to the club.

Pre season is always a roller coaster ride. Everyone panicing whether we can keep our current players, and if we can replace them with anyone near as good. This happens EVERY season, it's just us fans venting our frustrations at not knowing who's playing for us next season and if we'll be any good.

Out of interest oddquine...how long have you supported ict and what was your influences for following the team.

[Oddquine]

I think you'll find most of us have welcomed Gary and look forward to what he can bring to the club.

Pre season is always a roller coaster ride. Everyone panicing whether we can keep our current players, and if we can replace them with anyone near as good. This happens EVERY season, it's just us fans venting our frustrations at not knowing who's playing for us next season and if we'll be any good.

Out of interest oddquine...how long have you supported ict and what was your influences for following the team.

I can understand the panicking...but what I don't understand is the way so many do it with negativity rather than hope.

Frustration is one thing, pessimistic projection is another. The first does not necessarily produce the second unless that is the mindset.

What does how long or why I support ICT have to do with anything? If you read my posts, I am pretty upfront with everything and you would already know. And there is a difference between how long anyone has supported ICT and how long people have been members of this forum. (just in case you are foolish enough to think that one equates to the other) ,

ICT is going to have a job getting supporters if they have to have been supporters before they become supporters, don't you think?

[CallieAnne]

I for one can fully understand the common despair throughout this topic and several others. The reason being:- I was unlucky enough to miss only one home game last season. There were times where I was in dire need of the number supplied by Kingbeastie. We managed to survive to the end of the season but enough is enough. Either several of the posts on here are from people who don't attend games or their pain threshold is extremely high. I too despair if for one minute someone had ANYTHING positive to say about last season - other than it is over. We truly had all optimism well and truly beaten out of us throughout a very painful season. The games against the old firm were dreadful - the team didn't turn up. The games against Aberdeen were so poor, mirrored by the dismal attendance at the last one. This will continue as long as the entertainment value is so low and dropping.

I have posted before that to my mind if we were to source local talent this would encourage more loyalty both from the players and the fans, and rebuild the team spirit and performances that we enjoyed in previous years. This was mainly due to the good work of Pele (now with Rosscoe leaving that era is gone). It doesn't have to be lost forever though. I would use St Mirren as an example, lauded for playing attractive football with a manager prepared to shop around the lower leagues of Scottish football and take in experienced journeymen. This will continue to pay off in the future as they will attract more crowds and retain their squad. I don't see shopping in the lower reaches of English leagues as being the foundation on which to build a steady ship. There is no doubt that some of the players brought in have been good, but where are they? They are not here for the long term and neither are we. But unlike them we hope to return.

[bigman]

At least we almost have enough players to make up a team.!!!!!!!!!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

The tale of two wummin !! CallieAnne is presenting the "middle ground", realsitic post with a rationale for expressing for her concern and apprehension (not pessimism in my book). It quite clearly comes from the heart.

Oddquine - some more advice from a professional and personal perspective. I am finding that your posts are as negative as others. You are the perfect "target" for the fishermen but you tend to provoke argument and more heated responses by practically highlighting the negativity and feeding the anger and frustration. You are also answering questions with questions in an avoidant manner. If anyone is projecting pessimism it is in your innocently "inflammatory" responses.

If I was Warren and read through this then I would be thinking that I would be doing my uptmost to prove everybody wrong. If I was Terry Butcher reading this forum I would be reflecting on some of the "middle ground" posts and taking on board the actual level of frustration that is held by ICT fans - and then using my undoubted charisma to "change" and attempt to bring the "togetherness" back".

I also don't think that it matters how long that you have been a supporter or how many times that you watch the club to have an opinion. BUT if you are not witnessing the ineptness of some of the performances and the didtinct feeling that the "togetherness" is dissapating then you dont get the same feeling. I wholly admire season ticket holders as they are paying good money to watch dross. I am sure that many are forking out mainly in hope that things will be changed around. The "events" that have been happening recently have not exactly strengthened the "hope" factor. Their opportunity to voice their fears to an "audience" are CTO and I suspect that when they are challenged back by a "happy clapper" that it only fuels their frustrations and ups the anger value of the probably reactive response. There is no way on god's earth that any fan could profess to feeling comfortable at the moment and having whole faith that it will be turned round, taking in to account finances as well.

I concede, with a degree of embarrassment and guilt, that I deliberately avoided travelling to several away games at the close of the season because I was beginning to find it difficult in holding back my anger and frustration of, in my opinion, seeing the same "mistakes" being made over and over again. The increased viewing on Sky and Alba only added to the feckin pain.

In conclusion - Tokely is a fine example - He got lauded last season because he always showed 100% committment and was one of very few who looked like he was playing for the shirt, appeared at times to show anger and frustration and always found time to pay "homage" to the travelling support when others trooped off the park, albeit being sometimes reminded to go back by Butcher. Tokely was extolled becos he was "one of us". The other example would be Esson and does he get pilloried other than for making mistakes. If Foran was more personable then he too could acheive such status.

[Alex MacLeod]

I for one can fully understand the common despair throughout this topic and several others. The reason being:- I was unlucky enough to miss only one home game last season. There were times where I was in dire need of the number supplied by Kingbeastie. We managed to survive to the end of the season but enough is enough. Either several of the posts on here are from people who don't attend games or their pain threshold is extremely high. I too despair if for one minute someone had ANYTHING positive to say about last season - other than it is over. We truly had all optimism well and truly beaten out of us throughout a very painful season. The games against the old firm were dreadful - the team didn't turn up. The games against Aberdeen were so poor, mirrored by the dismal attendance at the last one. This will continue as long as the entertainment value is so low and dropping.

I have posted before that to my mind if we were to source local talent this would encourage more loyalty both from the players and the fans, and rebuild the team spirit and performances that we enjoyed in previous years. This was mainly due to the good work of Pele (now with Rosscoe leaving that era is gone). It doesn't have to be lost forever though. I would use St Mirren as an example, lauded for playing attractive football with a manager prepared to shop around the lower leagues of Scottish football and take in experienced journeymen. This will continue to pay off in the future as they will attract more crowds and retain their squad. I don't see shopping in the lower reaches of English leagues as being the foundation on which to build a steady ship. There is no doubt that some of the players brought in have been good, but where are they? They are not here for the long term and neither are we. But unlike them we hope to return.

Anne, I can understand some of your despair but dont you think ICT fans have expectations greater than the club can provide. We are a small team in a big league. We will always be fighting off relegation. We dont have the fanbase or the funds to be anything other.

As to the continuing gripes about local talent. Look at the squad. Look at how many players we have that came through our system. I think, considering the size of the population, we are doing very well in bringing through the ones we have. And I'm sure there will be more in years to come. A footballing talent is something thats in the genes. It is then nurtured and coached to perfection. Those talents are few and far between within our country far less our wee city. That is reflected in both our national team and last seasons U-19 performances.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

As Willie Shakespeare once said to me over a pint in the Avon Arms - "Johndo, expectation is the root of all heartache" but then Studs Terkel added " But my British muckers, I think that it is realistic to have hope. One can be a perverse idealist and say the easiest thing like "I despair. Butcher is no good". Thats a perverse idealist. It is practical to hope for us to survive in the SPL. That is more realistic." But then Private Fraser put it plainly in to perspection.

[The Mantis]

I think you'll find most of us have welcomed Gary and look forward to what he can bring to the club.

Pre season is always a roller coaster ride. Everyone panicing whether we can keep our current players, and if we can replace them with anyone near as good. This happens EVERY season, it's just us fans venting our frustrations at not knowing who's playing for us next season and if we'll be any good.

Out of interest oddquine...how long have you supported ict and what was your influences for following the team.

What does how long or why I support ICT have to do with anything? If you read my posts, I am pretty upfront with everything and you would already know. And there is a difference between how long anyone has supported ICT and how long people have been members of this forum. (just in case you are foolish enough to think that one equates to the other) ,

It's a fair point he makes. Some of us have seen ICT hundreds of times. We've seen it all before and we can see what's coming.......

If you're not sure, it's got 10 letters and begins with R.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

For Oddquine it is hopefully RETIREMENT :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Alex MacLeod]

Rangersout???

[Oddquine]

I think you'll find most of us have welcomed Gary and look forward to what he can bring to the club.

Pre season is always a roller coaster ride. Everyone panicing whether we can keep our current players, and if we can replace them with anyone near as good. This happens EVERY season, it's just us fans venting our frustrations at not knowing who's playing for us next season and if we'll be any good.

Out of interest oddquine...how long have you supported ict and what was your influences for following the team.

What does how long or why I support ICT have to do with anything? If you read my posts, I am pretty upfront with everything and you would already know. And there is a difference between how long anyone has supported ICT and how long people have been members of this forum. (just in case you are foolish enough to think that one equates to the other) ,

It's a fair point he makes. Some of us have seen ICT hundreds of times. We've seen it all before and we can see what's coming.......

If you're not sure, it's got 10 letters and begins with R.

Nope.....you can see what you think is coming, maybe even hope what is coming perhaps, so you can add "I told you so" to your sig and preen....but you can't see what is coming........particularly at this stage in preseason, any more than I or anyone else can.

I'm an old-fashioned football supporter.......the kind who does support through thick and thin....guess spending all my formative years supporting the Can-Cans will do that to anyone.

I'm the kind who assumes that a football manager isn't deliberately set on making a pigs ear of the next season (even if only because he knows that he is going to be hard pushed to get another decent job when sacked). I'm the kind of person who assumes that ( given the point in brackets above) the manager will do what he thinks is best for the team, given the financial restrictions he has to accommodate, and I'm the kind of person who will wait to see how that works out. I'm the kind of person who expects a minimum of 100% from the players, even if that produces nothing much, and will not accept anything less..why should they be exempted from the level of performance which keeps most of the rest of us in work? But, pre-season with not a game played, I don't assume that any player will not live up to my expectations and I don't form opinions from a level of no knowledge whatsoever.

Given we are not even into the English transfer window yet, I see nothing coming but possibilities......but I am obviously not blessed with the same Crystal Ball gazing prophecy ability some of you seem to possess. I'm just what I call a realistic pessimist.....which is hoping for the best, and preparing myself mentally for the worst...been doing it all my life (but even then I have been bitten on the bum). But that's life!

I don't see any problem with wondering about the make up of the team next season or thoughts on replacing players.....isn't that what the "Possible Transfer Targets" thread is all about....and the earlier "Who should stay and who should go", one.....and there is also the "Trialists" thread, and you could even add "Team for First Preseason Game" and likely more if I could be hacked off looking for them.

Where I have my problems is whatever happens certain elements in this forum can't just accept what they can't change and hope for the best, and don't wait at least until some pre-season matches have been played before getting into carp and whine mode.

ICT have signed a player nobody up here has ever seen play, and notwithstanding the fact that they know sod all about his abilities, we get remarks like Is this the standard of players we should be expecting from now on? Guess we'll have to wait and see what he's like. I won't be holding my breath ; I know he has financial restraints and has to scramble around to get players to come, but how does this guy get to 28 without making it at some point? I think it shows the trouble we are in that Gary is probably good enough to get a game for us at the arse end of the SPL. That's not the same as being good enough to cope in the SPL; OK so that's the squad/back up player signed. Who are we chasing to be the first choice?; I see a player who has been playing part time football until the age of 27 as a signing that might be for squad depth. I certainly won't be expecting him to walk into the team and i'd like a couple more players with a better CV at the club looking for a starting place but i will give him his chance to show what he can do. (that last almost succeeds in being pragmatic....but would have been more appropriate after seeing him play in at least one game.).

There are players who have come to ICT from lower leagues, and with no ICT inherited ethos.....Ross Tokely for one, who did well...to which about seven threads on this forum testify. Is anyone saying that the English Conference level of football is immeasurably worse than Highland League?

[+DoofersDad]

What folk are saying is that we should not get too excited about a player whose only full time football has been with a club that finished 19th in the conference and who, incidentally, has actually not signed for us yet. Terry may have unearthed a real gem and I am sure that if he signs we will all wish him well. But I don't think it is being negative at all to suggest that those who appear to think that this signing will be our ticket to European glory should tone down their expectations.

With regards to Tokely, he was 17 when he signed for us and we were in Division 3. There is no comparison. We are an SPL side and fans would like to think that one year we will have enough success to win a domestic trophy and get a shot at European football. Signing players from the lower reaches of the conference does not fill me with expectation that this success will come next season. That is not being negative, it is being realistic.

The manager will sign who he signs. Hopefully the new signings and those already here will gel into a good unit which will help bring the fans in and we can build from there. I will support the team whatever it is but reserve the right to voice my views on this forum and elsewhere if I feel the manager is not making decisions which are in the best interest of the club. I think that's a positive thing to do.

[Bush]

What folk are saying is that we should not get too excited about a player whose only full time football has been with a club that finished 19th in the conference and who, incidentally, has actually not signed for us yet. Terry may have unearthed a real gem and I am sure that if he signs we will all wish him well. But I don't think it is being negative at all to suggest that those who appear to think that this signing will be our ticket to European glory should tone down their expectations.

With regards to Tokely, he was 17 when he signed for us and we were in Division 3. There is no comparison. We are an SPL side and fans would like to think that one year we will have enough success to win a domestic trophy and get a shot at European football. Signing players from the lower reaches of the conference does not fill me with expectation that this success will come next season. That is not being negative, it is being realistic.

The manager will sign who he signs. Hopefully the new signings and those already here will gel into a good unit which will help bring the fans in and we can build from there. I will support the team whatever it is but reserve the right to voice my views on this forum and elsewhere if I feel the manager is not making decisions which are in the best interest of the club. I think that's a positive thing to do.

Sorry DD but that's not what posters have said. It hasn't been a case of "don't get too excited" but definitely more "he's not good enough".

Oddquine has very eloquently pointed this out and I'm certainly in her camp regarding giving these players a chance. Nobody's seen this guy play, but several posters claim he's not good enough - on what basis? OK he's a late starter, but that might just mean no-one's noticed him as he's not been in the shop window. Isn't that the same as the Hull striker Steve Bull, who hit the headlines with a late starting career - and then went on to play for England!

I'm with Oddquine. Give the new guys a chance, don't write them off before you've seen them play, and don't p*ss them off by writing negative drivel that they might read before they've played (or even signed).

Positivity can breed success, but negativity will certainly breed failure.

[dougal]

I wish Gary well and hope he succeeds but there's a lot of pressure being placed on his shoulders being labeled the direct replacement for Ross Tokely

It doesn't say much for the standard of the SPL though when non league English Players can make the transition from a diddy league in one country to the top flight in another

Welcome to Inverness Gary I suggest the Tarry Isle for a good pint

Dougal

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Oddquine - As a token of my delight that you appear to have altered your style I have awarded you a rare IHE "like" But I have never heard of a realistic pessimist hence:

" The glass is both half-full and half-empty. This is the position of the realist. Why don’t we tend to perceive this apparently obvious answer until it’s pointed out? Ralph Waldo Emerson stated, “People only see what they are prepared to see.”

Psychologically, it is often beneficial to view things from this more balanced and flexible perspective in order to be better able to resolve issues rather than remain stuck. For example, when we are angry with someone we may perceive them as ‘bad’ – e.g., “I have a terrible boss”. However, a person is usually not all good or bad but more accurately exhibits both good and bad behaviours. It may be true that your boss behaves in an overbearing manner; however, it may also be true that he is quite generous with bonuses and time-off. If I over-simplify the way I view my boss it generates stronger negative feelings than are perhaps justified. When I reframe my thinking to include his positive qualities, the strength of the negative feelings usually is reduced. This is the starting point for eventually resolving difficulties with another person.

A technique used to increase empathy or perspective-taking is to imagine ourselves in the other person’s shoes and remind ourselves of times when we may have behaved similarly – e.g., cut someone off when driving. Usually, we appreciate when the other person gives us the benefit of the doubt and views it as only an error in judgement.

Are your friends and colleagues optimists, pessimists or realists? Now you can find out.

[Alex MacLeod]

I just cant believe the mentality of many on here. In one breath the club should be looking to the lower Scottish leagues and Highland league for players. Those leagues full of part time teams and part time players. Then when we sign a player from a league down south we are slated for giving a part time player a chance.

[Doofer]

I wish him well at ICT and hope he can fit in well to the team. I know nothing about him so will have to wait and see what he is like. Hopefully the demanding CB we have been craving. Realistically we have to look at payers in the lower league as that is what we can afford. I would love to see us bringing in playrs from league one and the championship but it is just not going to happen as we cant compete financially. There are some very good players in division 1 IMHO from Falkirk, Dundee so why not look there

[The Mantis]

I would have replied in the same vein as DoofersDad so I'll spare you all that again.

Oddquine, look, I know there's moaners on here but I've also been accused of being a happy clapper at times so I must be getting something right. By all means have a go at the downright negative posters but people like me have sincerely held views and I try to justify my (realistic) views by what I've seen on the park, week in, week out. We pay our money and we have genuine concerns.

Instead of lumping us all together in your lectures which are getting longer each time, and consist mainly of asking us to have faith and everything will be fine, or accusing an entire support of being backward looking - try convincing me using football reasons. Mind you that could be difficult if you say you never saw Ross Tokely play any of his 490 matches? By extension you've hardly if ever seen ICT either then.

There are players who have come to ICT from lower leagues, and with no ICT inherited ethos.....Ross Tokely for one, who did well...to which about seven threads on this forum testify. Is anyone saying that the English Conference level of football is immeasurably worse than Highland League?

Big problem here, I think the point you're missing is so obvious. It's about more than talent. Pro football is a trade, just like plumbing or joinery. Apprentices serve their time and then are kept on or leave to find another club.

Unless the player is an exceptional talent he will not play in the SPL at 17- most players are in their mid 20s.

Ross debuted at 17 in div 3 and worked hard and continued to develop. Each time he has stepped up and continued to learn the game. So even if his legs have gone he has 7 years SPL experience.

Compare him to Richard Hastings who at 17 was tipped for great things but seemed to stop developing about the age of 21 as many folk here will tell you.

So as I said I will be delighted if Gary Warren proves people wrong at the age of 27 or whatever but I gave you plenty of examples where Butcher has got it wrong in the past.

So it's nothing to do with the HL being as good as the BSBP. Although back in 96 when Ross signed for ICT, the HL select WAS capable of giving the English equivalent a game, it was an annual fixture. Nowadays it would be no contest I reckon.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

When, if ever, has a potential signing, with an admittedly humble career to date, caused so much interest on our forum?

I like what I've read about Warren so far. I hope he signs and I'm sure we all want him to do well.

I've not seen him play, although, when I'm not travelling up to see ICT, I watch a fair bit of lower league football down here in south Englandshire. Last season I saw Exeter (my favourite English team), Wycombe, Aldershot, Crawley, Basingstoke, Maidenhead, and probably two or three others I can't remember off the top of my head.

Generally the standard is quite good, and many of these sides would give ICT a decent game. This has been proved in the last couple of pre seasons, where our record against English lower league opposition is not good. I think only Stockport we managed to beat, failing to beat Fleetwood, Yeovil, Bristol Rovers and Aldershot!

So I'm optimistic that Warren will turn out to be ok, as Gillet from Barnet was, and not like some of Butcher's notable failures (Aldred, Stratford, Gnapka etc).

Time will tell, But, I repeat, I have a good feeling about this one.

[Ten4]

I think its big news because he`s an early signing & a bit of positive news but I reckon we`ll need a lot of these signings to keep us all happy.

More Rabbits in the Warren maybe ?!

[The Mantis]

Hope so CMIB. Our record against English teams used to be good. I've said many a time that our game is going down the pan at an alarming rate.

[CallieAnne]

Don't want to labour my point, however I don't feel the quality is the issue. TB has signed some good players but where are they? My issue is that by bringing in loanees and signings from English lower leagues is NOT providing the continuity and stability that the club so badly needs. Almost every topic raised has someone mention that the team ethic has gone. It will never return staffing the club with guys up here for a year's holiday or at best putting themselves in a shop window, albeit only a slightly bigger shop.

I couldn't agree more - don't judge the man before he has kicked a ball. However I am no Mystic Meg, but if he turns out to be any good he'll be off after a year. If not so good he will follow Aldred and probably as quickly. I just see no building for the future just a stopgap for a season, also when I mentioned local I meant more Scotland rather than the Highlands alone.

I would finish by asking one question to back up my point. Apart from Foran who is the longest serving of TB's signings left?