Danny Wilson Ineligible?

[+DoofersDad]

Hearts won't get thrown out for this.  A bit of a coincidence too that the ban on signings was suddenly lifted less than a week before the game with a couple of good players all lined up to go immediately to Tynecastle. I'm sure the fact that a final with a team with a small fan base might not be what the powers that be are looking for has nothing to do with any of this.

 

By the way, great to see Liverpool humbled in the FA Cup today!

[Alex MacLeod]

Hearts won't get thrown out for this.  A bit of a coincidence too that the ban on signings was suddenly lifted less than a week before the game with a couple of good players all lined up to go immediately to Tynecastle. I'm sure the fact that a final with a team with a small fan base might not be what the powers that be are looking for has nothing to do with any of this.

 

By the way, great to see Liverpool humbled in the FA Cup today!

Their ban on signings has not been lifted. The punishment was always that they could only sign players 21 and under.

[+DoofersDad]

Hearts won't get thrown out for this.  A bit of a coincidence too that the ban on signings was suddenly lifted less than a week before the game with a couple of good players all lined up to go immediately to Tynecastle. I'm sure the fact that a final with a team with a small fan base might not be what the powers that be are looking for has nothing to do with any of this.

 

By the way, great to see Liverpool humbled in the FA Cup today!

Their ban on signings has not been lifted. The punishment was always that they could only sign players 21 and under.

No it wasn't

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21061338

[Alex MacLeod]

Sorry, my mistake. Its the other mob who were allowed to sign U-21's

[Guest]

So, to summarise:

 

- Danny Wilson had a suspension to serve from when he last played for Rangers in the League Cup.

- He didn't serve it in Scotland before he moved to Liverpool.

- When he moved to Liverpool he was given a Fifa International Transfer Certificate that made reference to the suspension which had still to be served.

- He didn't serve it in England either (wasn't listed on the EPL suspension list for Liverpool's league game v. Arsenal and played in their League Cup game v. Northampton).

- There is therefore no record of him serving the suspension in either Scotland or England.

- When he signed for Hearts, the new Fifa International Transfer Certificate from the FA sent to the SFA made no reference to any outstanding ban.

 

Therefore the English FA or FIFA have quite possibly ****** up. The SFA need to investigate this fully as Wilson shouldn't have been playing yesterday. 

 

Have I missed anything? Can anyone contact the relevant people at the club so this gets investigated fully?

[clacher_holiday2]

Hearts won't get thrown out for this.  A bit of a coincidence too that the ban on signings was suddenly lifted less than a week before the game with a couple of good players all lined up to go immediately to Tynecastle. I'm sure the fact that a final with a team with a small fan base might not be what the powers that be are looking for has nothing to do with any of this.

 

Billy Mckay is the mastermind

[Alex MacLeod]

So, to summarise:

 

- Danny Wilson had a suspension to serve from when he last played for Rangers in the League Cup.

- He didn't serve it in Scotland before he moved to Liverpool.

- When he moved to Liverpool he was given a Fifa International Transfer Certificate that made reference to the suspension which had still to be served.

- He didn't serve it in England either (wasn't listed on the EPL suspension list for Liverpool's league game v. Arsenal and played in their League Cup game v. Northampton).

- There is therefore no record of him serving the suspension in either Scotland or England.

- When he signed for Hearts, the new Fifa International Transfer Certificate from the FA sent to the SFA made no reference to any outstanding ban.

 

Therefore the English FA or FIFA have quite possibly fucked up. The SFA need to investigate this fully as Wilson shouldn't have been playing yesterday. 

 

Have I missed anything? Can anyone contact the relevant people at the club so this gets investigated fully?

I'd say you've covered more than you needed to. He couldn't serve the ban in England because the ban applied only to the competition in which he was suspended. Seems to me that the English FA have made an error and the Scottish FA have not looked fully at their own records. The club has to complain. Not to get reinstated into the competition so much as to get an investigation started that will make sure another mistake like this cannot happen.

[CaleyD]

Have I missed anything? Can anyone contact the relevant people at the club so this gets investigated fully?

 

The club are aware of the situation.

[WYNESS101]

Have I missed anything? Can anyone contact the relevant people at the club so this gets investigated fully?

 

The club are aware of the situation.

good

[ict247]

Simple question:

 

WIll this realistically see the game replayed? 

[+DoofersDad]

Simple question:

 

WIll this realistically see the game replayed? 

...and if so, who will pay for the expense of 2000 ICT supporters travelling to the game?  Why should we be out of pocket if it is adjudged that Hearts broke the rules?  If they broke the rules they should be disqualified.  End of.

[12th Man]

You guys have made my night,  a big well done,  Its impossible for him to serve his suspension in England  it  can only apply to  the cup in question,  as far as Im concerned  he shouldnt have played,  its now a case of  getting the legal eagles involved.

 

W

[12th Man]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/scottish-premier/7046535/Dunfermline-handed-Scottish-Cup-reprieve-by-SFA-appeals-panel.html#

 

I believe they were getting stricter after the amount of errors the Pars had made, if you made a balls up you were out,  If Danny Wilson hasn't  served his suspension for the said cup,  then it must apply to the first game that he is eligible to play for. Even if he left Scottish football for 20 years came back and joined a part time lower league club the ban will still apply, the time span is irrelevant,  he cant  serve the ban in a competition of his choice, in what ever country of his choice, the ban must be served.

[+DoofersDad]

In the event that the ruling is that Hearts be disqualified, I wonder if that would mean that the match is deemed not to have taken place and therefore the bookings which would otherwise rule 3 of our key players out of the final would also be deemed not to apply?

Probably an academic question because the cynic in me says that whatever should happen here, Hearts will not be thrown out of the competition.  They will say Hearts were not aware of the situation and acted in good faith.  They will simply apply the ban to Wilson in the final and deem that as appropriate action.  

 

But the issue here is not whether Hearts have acted in good faith or not.  If the rules have been broken then it is ICT who are the victims.  It was a very tight match and had Hearts not played a first choice defender who appears to have been ineligible then there must be doubt as to whether the result would have been different.  We should not suffer from their failure to abide by the rules of the competition whether they were aware of the situation or not.  It's the same principle as being done for speeding in a 30mph limit - claiming you were not aware of the speed limit is no defence.

 

 

[PaderbornCaley]

I had to read that STV article a couple of times just to be clear.  But what i'm getting from it is:

 

An un-named spokesman for the SFL confirmed that he was sent off in his last League Cup game.  He then confirmed that the penalty for this is suspension of the next League Cup game.  The SFL know this.  Hearts know this.  But someone didn't write it on a piece of paper so they thought feck it he can play!

[lukemackay]

I had to read that STV article a couple of times just to be clear.  But what i'm getting from it is:

 

An un-named spokesman for the SFL confirmed that he was sent off in his last League Cup game.  He then confirmed that the penalty for this is suspension of the next League Cup game.  The SFL know this.  Hearts know this.  But someone didn't write it on a piece of paper so they thought feck it he can play!

exactly what i got from it too. seems someone somewhere has swept it under the carpet.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I would rather read the match thread than this crap. We should have won but we got beat.

[ilpadrino]

I had to read that STV article a couple of times just to be clear.  But what i'm getting from it is:

 

An un-named spokesman for the SFL confirmed that he was sent off in his last League Cup game.  He then confirmed that the penalty for this is suspension of the next League Cup game.  The SFL know this.  Hearts know this.  But someone didn't write it on a piece of paper so they thought feck it he can play!

exactly what i got from it too. seems someone somewhere has swept it under the carpet.

 

I have to agree with these comments, as there's nobody giving official comments on this on a Sunday night.

 

Hearts clearly thought there was a problem, or they wouldn't have asked.  Regardless of the answers given to them, they never tried too hard to find out, as the joint detective work carried out yesterday show he was ineligible.  Hearts obviously have the advantage of having Wilson to hand, and he knows this without having to search the archives.

 

In the rules regarding eligibility (thanks to CaleyD on Twitter):

 

8.2 It shall be the responsibility of each Club participating in the Competition to ensure that its players are eligible to play in any League Cup match.  If a player participates in a League Cup match, such player being ineligible to play in the Cup match as a result of his suspension by The Scottish Football Association or for any other reason, the Club for which the player participates in the League Cup match shall be liable to such penalty as the Board may decide.

 

It's "the responsibility of each Club" - not the SFA, SPL, SFL or the English FA.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Hearts know the rules. 'Marius Zaliukas knows he will not participate in the final...'  If they had done their homework on Wilson, they would have known he was ineligible and he would have been absolutely transparent. If there was some Mickey Mouse rule that you could nip over the border, miss a game , then loan deals would be rife. If a suspension applies to just one competition, no international clearance is necessary to allow a player to wipe the slate clean....until they come back to face the punishment and serve it.  

[maccapacca]

Newby struggling with posting a link - think my 2nd post works at least!!

Edited January 28, 2013 by maccapacca

[maccapacca]

 

Taken from:

 

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/Disciplinary/CurrentSuspensions/Season2009/10/March2010/PlayerSuspensions/LOS36(25Mar).pdf

 

Someone needs to prove he didn't serve the ban in the "Scottish League Cup" per above?!

Edited January 28, 2013 by maccapacca

[HumbersideDude]

It took fans here only a short while to dig up Wilsons playing record to see if a ban had been served. Hearts, with the player, who should have known, say they asked SFA if everything was ok.  Would anyone here rely on the SFA, without checking other sources. Like a phone call to Liverpool.

 There needs to be someone from any of the SFL/SFA/FA/Liverpool to clarify, with proof, that a ban has been served.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Dewsburydude

[Govan Jaggie]

Give it up chaps. Nothing will happen and we don't deserve it to. ICT should have won but didn't. Move on to the next challenge.

[HumbersideDude]

There is previous of the FA making mistakes in paperwork, and the SFA letting the player play with no sanction.    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-472843/Ban-glee-McCulloch.html  

 Hay ho, Scottish cup it is then!!

[+bughtmaster]

Simple question:

 

WIll this realistically see the game replayed? 

...and if so, who will pay for the expense of 2000 ICT supporters travelling to the game?  Why should we be out of pocket if it is adjudged that Hearts broke the rules?  If they broke the rules they should be disqualified.  End of.

 

 

And will the two people who bet on Hearts winning have to pay the bookies back their millions of pounds £££££££££££££££££££'s