Admin by Oct 16th - It's here now!

[Huisdean]

I was told around 6 to 8 weeks ago that Dumbarton would likely go into administration due to, basically, fraud. I was sworn to silence at the time but it looks like it is becoming true. It really hammers home how clubs need good directors to challenge inappropriate behaviours by others.

[STFU]

Interesting also that they have a supporters trust rep on the club board yet many of their fans saying they had no idea that they were in immediate risk of administration.

[big cherly]

4 hours ago, buckett said:

I would agree that Inverness is a large enough town to sustain a top 20 club. Unfortunately the local support is divided between ICTFC and that team based in Dingwall, and the existence of each of these clubs is detrimental to the top-flight aspirations of the other.

Put simply, County's top flight sustainability would be much less precarious If ICTFC did not exist, as was ours before they joined us in the SPL.

Yes, it’s a very valid point buckett. Also a tough one to provide a response that sees a way ahead that doesn’t boil down to a simple survival of the fittest! i.e we on the south side of the kessock bridge have to ‘win’ over the bulk of the area - region’s fans to support us!  Uncle Roy’s been the sole financial backer over the full life of RC in the Scottish League. It’s been to RC’s benefit that one person has provided that stability and funds to develop, (let’s be honest here), a better operation both on and off the field over the last decade. 
 

We can bleat about the unfairness, but the reality is we have no right to expect fans to gravitate towards ICTFC simply because we’re the city and base for most of the population. We have to earn their support back or ‘over’. The quickest way is, in part, with a successful team on the park. This is achievable with the right guidance and the early signs already are encouraging. 
A stable new ICTFC owner that sees the football team an equal and integral part of any business model would be a welcome component of achieving the above. 
Ultimately, for me it’s a fight for the limited fan base. Waiting for uncle Roy to kick-it isn’t enough. We need to sit down with the new owners and develop a detailed strategy for significantly improving the fan base. 
 

tuppence worth

Edited November 19, 2024 by big cherly

[tm4tj]

Yes, nobody likes to see this.....

However, it's the rules.

Pos	Team	Pld	Gd	Pts
1	Kelty Hearts	14	10	22
2	Arbroath	14	1	22
3	Alloa Athletic	14	5	21
4	Stenhousemuir	14	2	21
5	Cove Rangers	14	4	20
6	Queen of Sth	14	-3	18
7	Montrose	14	1	17
8	Annan Athletic	14	-15	14
9	Inverness CT	14	0	4
10	Dumbarton	14	-5	0

gg

[Ronaldo]

A shame indeed, but we need to keep on our toes as Admin might galvanise them as it has us.

[ymip]

I find it incredibly depressing that the SPFL's sole response to clubs falling into insolvency in the aftermath of a global pandemic and cost of living crisis is to penalise them 15 points in an attempt to ensure they're relegated and face even greater financial hardship. It really is a diabolical abdication of any duty of care or solidarity with member clubs. Not a good look for the game in Scotland and highlights the fact that the SPFL is simply not fit for purpose.

Edited November 19, 2024 by ymip

[STFU]

The SPFL has many faults but holding clubs accountable for financial mismanagement is not one of them.

The only ones who should feel any shame are those running up debts and then in the aftermath of a global pandemic and cost of living crisis expect others to pick up the tab.

[CaleyCanary]

1 hour ago, Ronaldo said:

A shame indeed, but we need to keep on our toes as Admin might galvanise them as it has us.

I do feel for the Dumbarton fans, we all know how they must be feeling so lots of empathy from us.

 I also feel, however, that Ronaldo is right about this and they’re quite capable of catching Annan. It’s going to be a long hard slog but I think we’re in better shape to survive.

[+snorbens_caleyman]

27 minutes ago, ymip said:

I find it incredibly depressing that the SPFL's sole response to clubs falling into insolvency in the aftermath of a global pandemic and cost of living crisis is to penalise them 15 points in an attempt to ensure they're relegated and face even greater financial hardship.

Was the rule passed by the clubs voting on it, or was it imposed on them?  I genuinely don't know.

[+Northern_jaggie]

Imagine a relegation playoff final against Elgin, and surviving. That would be great fun against that bunch of mugs 

[Yngwie]

59 minutes ago, Northern_jaggie said:

Imagine a relegation playoff final against Elgin, and surviving. That would be great fun against that bunch of mugs 

Hmm, we’re not good at relegation playoffs!

[Charles Bannerman]

10 hours ago, buckett said:

I would agree that Inverness is a large enough town to sustain a top 20 club. Unfortunately the local support is divided between ICTFC and that team based in Dingwall, and the existence of each of these clubs is detrimental to the top-flight aspirations of the other.

Put simply, County's top flight sustainability would be much less precarious If ICTFC did not exist, as was ours before they joined us in the SPL.

I think we are back to the notion that it seemed great when two small clubs from the inner Moray Firth deservedly got into the SFL in 1994, but after both of them became a lot bigger - and after £30-40M of other people’s money has been jointly given to them - we find that this maybe wasn’t such a good idea after all.

Caley Thistle, who have accounted for around £15M of that £35-40M, are currently going through the resulting reality check and correction, and that is the kind of reality that may also eventually visit Ross County, should the annual seven figure sum that Roy MacGregor is putting in there stop coming.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Charles Bannerman

[Eagle4Caley]

15 hours ago, ymip said:

I find it incredibly depressing that the SPFL's sole response to clubs falling into insolvency in the aftermath of a global pandemic and cost of living crisis is to penalise them 15 points in an attempt to ensure they're relegated and face even greater financial hardship. It really is a diabolical abdication of any duty of care or solidarity with member clubs. Not a good look for the game in Scotland and highlights the fact that the SPFL is simply not fit for purpose.

Being docked points for going into administration in not just a Scotland thing, Palace were docked points in 2010, and what the league did to Luton Town over financial irregularities might have seemed bordering on vengeful [to the fans and players, if not the board], even last year Everton and Nottingham Forest.

When I look at the average attendances over many Scottish Championship and League 1/2 sides and what potential incomes streams are [little TV money, not much league sponsorship or prize money, transfer fees, hospitality earnings limited by attendance levels, fewer big money opportunities for other sponsorship, like shirt sponsors] I am in awe that there are that many actually existing. Obviously being supported by richer individuals putting hands in their pockets, but not really a sustainable approach. I understand Dumbarton lost out on a land deal not coughing up, if true, sounds strangely familiar.

Other than growing the average attendance to at least double we get now, and unless the Scottish authorities leverage in more income from TV/League sponsorship to lower tier clubs, Inverness going forward will need to be much more energetic about growing local talent to move on for decent fees on a yearly basis. I have wondered if a hotel chain on the site paying the club a yearly rental was a way forward to/

 

[buckett]

31 minutes ago, Eagle4Caley said:

When I look at the average attendances over many Scottish Championship and League 1/2 sides and what potential incomes streams are [little TV money, not much league sponsorship or prize money, transfer fees, hospitality earnings limited by attendance levels, fewer big money opportunities for other sponsorship, like shirt sponsors] I am in awe that there are that many actually existing. Obviously being supported by richer individuals putting hands in their pockets, but not really a sustainable approach. I understand Dumbarton lost out on a land deal not coughing up, if true, sounds strangely familiar.

 

On the premise that a "senior" team is one in the Premiership, Championship, League 1 or League 2 in both England and Scotland, we find that there are 92 senior teams in England and just under half that many in Scotland - a country with less than a tenth the population.

You're right. There are far too many senior teams in Scotland and most of them are unsustainable without very generous donations.

Ideally they should merge, but is anyone on here brave enough to suggest we merge with Ross County? 

[big cherly]

3 minutes ago, buckett said:

On the premise that a "senior" team is one in the Premiership, Championship, League 1 or League 2 in both England and Scotland, we find that there are 92 senior teams in England and just under half that many in Scotland - a country with less than a tenth the population.

You're right. There are far too many senior teams in Scotland and most of them are unsustainable without very generous donations.

Ideally they should merge, but is anyone on here brave enough to suggest we merge with Ross County? 

It may well be in 10 years such a decision is made on again purely economical reality! 

[buckett]

10 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

.Caley Thistle, who have accounted for around £15M of that £35-40M, are currently going through the resulting reality check and correction, and that is the kind of reality that may also eventually visit Ross County, should the annual seven figure sum that Roy MacGregor is putting in there stop coming.

The difference being that we've had to work hard to get that sort of sponsorship whereas MacGregor has pretty much guaranteed to keep County solvent.

[Charles Bannerman]

17 hours ago, STFU said:

The SPFL has many faults but holding clubs accountable for financial mismanagement is not one of them.

The only ones who should feel any shame are those running up debts and then in the aftermath of a global pandemic and cost of living crisis expect others to pick up the tab.

I strongly agree, STFU. The main root cause of administration is clubs spending more than they are earning… even when they have subsidies from wealthy people, be these regular or random. And the main root cause of spending too much is paying players too much. The illustration here is from a report by the BBC’s Chris McLaughlin which presumably refers to increases in part time wages in League One. 
Clubs become so preoccupied with keeping wages up in order to keep their status up that they are prepared to take huge financial risks which make administration all that more likely.

Edited November 20, 2024 by Charles Bannerman

[Charles Bannerman]

Spot the link:- “Intelligent” Finance; “Cognitive” Capital; “Intelligent” Land Investments.

[IcyT]

So, Chris McLaughlin of the Beeb refers to whispers at boardroom level surrounding a couple of well-known clubs in particular, as further possibilities for going into administration.  I wonder what counts as "well-known".  

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Chris is quite speculative in saying that. Hamilton have certainly had some problems this season and that is in the public domain. Dunfermline seem to be between a rock and hard place - again in the public domain.

[STFU]

Partick Thistle are another. A couple of weeks ago they were looking for approval to sell another £500k worth of shares and the money was needed for them to remain viable. This is the second year in a row they've had to do that.

[+Northern_jaggie]

I’d like to know, on balance, how much money the streaming service generated or could generate post-Covid. The moratorium extending down the leagues means clubs can’t make cash from this, whilst not receiving much benefit from the TV deal that has the hold.

[+CaleyHedgehog]

I think that we have to be brutally honest and face the fact that football crowds in 2024 will never again be like those from the last century. 

Going to the footie was a really big weekend event when I was younger, the highlight of the weekend, before a more sedate day on a Sunday. The crowds were huge at games. TV coverage was very limited, but even at home, when the results came in silence was demanded while people checked their pools coupons. Nowadays it is just one of the very many weekend opportunities available both in the real world and virtually, and people just don't want to commit so much time and money to one event. 

I have no idea what wages are for the boys at our club, but I don't think clubs at our level can afford to use high pay as a way to lure players to their club. We must accept that players have to really want to play football as a career, whatever the wages are, and that they cannot expect to be paid more than other young people earn in the area where they live. This does make attracting players difficult, but we have to live within our means.

When big money becomes the over riding incentive to any player, then something is lost - the main incentive should always be the possibilities on the pitch.

[Yngwie]

I see Keith Haggart has joined Nairn as head of commercial.

[STFU]

5 hours ago, Yngwie said:

I see Keith Haggart has joined Nairn as head of commercial.

Free advertising boards all round come renewal time.