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36 minutes ago, forresjags said:

 

A small community club, sorry but to my mind that is doing ourselves a massive injustice. We are an established top tier club and should think of ourselves as one.

If we accept second best that's what we will get. The balls up with JD Sports and Carbrini was amateurish and I wonder if it was either Motherwell or St Johnstone in our position the outcome would have been the same.  

 

Well said. There are enough Central Belt 'pundits' talking us down without us resorting to doing it ourselves. We are indeed now a significant part of the Scottish football scene and, without ever getting over confident and taking things for granted, should regard ourselves as such and act accordingly.

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1 hour ago, ictfcsince94 said:

were the 'smaller' clubs worse afftected. ie were ourselves and st mirren say, treated worse than the likes of Bournemouth?

Insofar as kit being late and then ongoing supply problems, all clubs seem to have been equally screwed....based on information to hand.

Without knowing the details of each club's agreement with them, then it's impossible to say or rank impact beyond that.

e.g. We have ditched them and need to find a new supplier for next season...but they were supplier AND shirt sponsor for St Mirren, so in ditching them they have a new sponsor and supplier to find.

If a club were on a licensing deal where JD were paying for the rights to make and sell kit, then there's no financial loss.

If a club were on a manufacturing deal where JD were making and suppling the kit for a club to sell, then financial losses could be quite substantial.

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8 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

Yogi with a team that reached Europe and won the Scottish Cup, as a result of the quality of the players he recruited 

Spot on Charles your absolutely correct.√

Err sorry but that's incorrect, X.

Who did Yogi find and recruit to win the cup?

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28 minutes ago, 12th Man said:

Spot on Charles your absolutely correct.√

Err sorry but that's incorrect, X.

Who did Yogi find and recruit to win the cup?

Tansey & Ofere - both players who scored important goals on our run, but he picked the team and tactics regardless of the players to get us to a final and win it - however its still evident from some on here he will never be given any credit for anything achieved.

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15 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

Tansey & Ofere - both players who scored important goals on our run, but he picked the team and tactics regardless of the players to get us to a final and win it - however its still evident from some on here he will never be given any credit for anything achieved.

I think that he does get credit and he deserves to.  There is no denying his success. However, there is equally no denying that his place in club history was tarnished by the self serving manner in which he engineered his lucrative self serving exit.

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11 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

Having the ground as collateral, even if that were the case, would not open up any additional avenues for funding. Long gone are the days when Scottish football clubs could borrow commercially, whether they are offer security or not. No bad thing in my view, forcing clubs to live within their means which is something our board has proved adept at all our history with the exception of the grossly overspending regime under Doug McGillivray which brought us within days of administration or worse.

Yes, it's imperative we do what we can to turn things around and remain in the Premiership but not at the expense of prejudicing the long term future of the club.

No one is talking for putting the long term aims of the club in jeopardy.

I don't agree with overspending either but if it cost the club £1,000,000 when it was relegated then if its possible to invest an additional something to keep it afloat then surely you would rather invest 5-10% of that potential loss in the team knowing full well that an additional two places in the league would recoup the money anyway.

Nothing wrong with taking prudent precautionary measures, which is exactly what the club is doing as the gaffer is talking of bringing a couple of extra players in.

Not directed at you but we often hear of us constantly punching above our weight, well what about Motherwell and their success or their players McFadden or Pearson as an example. We aren't far away from finding our own gems with the quality of football vastly improving at a junior level in the area.  Hamilton v Motherwell Derby only had 3526 attendees. 

We are no longer the wee highland club that has come to visit the top flight for a novelty experience, it's now our home and it's up to everyone to pull together and secure the clubs future.

 

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1 hour ago, Kingsmills said:

I think that he does get credit and he deserves to.  There is no denying his success. However, there is equally no denying that his place in club history was tarnished by the self serving manner in which he engineered his lucrative self serving exit.

Agree and just maybe he saw what was coming .However he is still looking for a job so it is a lose lose situation for him and the club.

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2 hours ago, 12th Man said:

Spot on Charles your absolutely correct.√

Err sorry but that's incorrect, X.

Who did Yogi find and recruit to win the cup?

12th man, you were perhaps being a bit too selective when you chose only to quote the words "Yogi with a team that reached Europe and won the Scottish Cup, was a result of the quality of the players he recruited " whereas if you had instead chosen to extend your quote to the entire sentence "It has become increasingly apparent that much of the success of the Butcher era, which had enough momentum to provide Yogi with a team that reached Europe and won the Scottish Cup, was a result of the quality of the players he recruited" a different interpretation may have emerged.

Now I do agree that there would have been no scope at all for ambiguity at all if I had said "the players which Butcher recruited" or "the players which he (Butcher) recruited" . In hindsight that would have been a better way of putting it since the last named person before the "he" is indeed "Yogi" rather than "Butcher". But, given that "Yogi" is in a separate clause interpolated into the statement linking "Butcher" and "he", and that the full sentence doesn't seem as ambiguous as the part of it you selected.... I maybe just got away with it!:smile:

So to avoid any ambiguity -  in my view, much of the success at ICT of John Hughes, whose own signings were less than impressive, originated from players recruited by Terry Butcher.

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pernickety - placing too much emphasis on trivial or minor details; fussy. 

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53 minutes ago, Charles Bannerman said:

12th man, you were perhaps being a bit too selective when you chose only to quote the words "Yogi with a team that reached Europe and won the Scottish Cup, was a result of the quality of the players he recruited " whereas if you had instead chosen to extend your quote to the entire sentence "It has become increasingly apparent that much of the success of the Butcher era, which had enough momentum to provide Yogi with a team that reached Europe and won the Scottish Cup, was a result of the quality of the players he recruited" a different interpretation may have emerged.

Now I do agree that there would have been no scope at all for ambiguity at all if I had said "the players which Butcher recruited" or "the players which he (Butcher) recruited" . In hindsight that would have been a better way of putting it since the last named person before the "he" is indeed "Yogi" rather than "Butcher". But, given that "Yogi" is in a separate clause interpolated into the statement linking "Butcher" and "he", and that the full sentence doesn't seem as ambiguous as the part of it you selected.... I maybe just got away with it!:smile:

So to avoid any ambiguity -  in my view, much of the success at ICT of John Hughes, whose own signings were less than impressive, originated from players recruited by Terry Butcher.

:fishing:

Looks like were gonna need a bigger boat.

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On 04/01/2017 at 3:10 PM, forresjags said:

 

A small community club, sorry but to my mind that is doing ourselves a massive injustice. We are an established top tier club and should think of ourselves as one.

If we accept second best that's what we will get. The balls up with JD Sports and Carbrini was amateurish and I wonder if it was either Motherwell or St Johnstone in our position the outcome would have been the same.  

 

 

On 04/01/2017 at 3:50 PM, Kingsmills said:

Well said. There are enough Central Belt 'pundits' talking us down without us resorting to doing it ourselves. We are indeed now a significant part of the Scottish football scene and, without ever getting over confident and taking things for granted, should regard ourselves as such and act accordingly.

What I meant by small community club, was more of a positive remark than an attempt to belittle the club. As in a close knit community. 

We are a relatively small, even by Scottish terms, club but a very successful one of which we should be proud. To do what we've done in little over 22 years should be lauded.

I was however remarking on a tendency to become divided and ostracise certain sectors of the club, considering that we would like to consider the club as a close knit family and community club.

Maybe it's wishful thinking and there are no clubs out there that are really like that, but in a time when so many bemoan football being a detached business from its fans it's sometimes surprising how much it can turn when the chips are down. At many other clubs Foran would no longer be in the job but it's kinda nice to imagine that we're not like that.

I get that the board struggle at times with getting everything right, and there are certain elements folk can highlight to criticise them, but on the whole they've, in my own humble opinion, done quite a good job overall given what they have to work with.

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6 hours ago, iamthecaptain1 said:

 

What I meant by small community club, was more of a positive remark than an attempt to belittle the club. As in a close knit community. 

We are a relatively small, even by Scottish terms, club but a very successful one of which we should be proud. To do what we've done in little over 22 years should be lauded.

I was however remarking on a tendency to become divided and ostracise certain sectors of the club, considering that we would like to consider the club as a close knit family and community club.

Maybe it's wishful thinking and there are no clubs out there that are really like that, but in a time when so many bemoan football being a detached business from its fans it's sometimes surprising how much it can turn when the chips are down. At many other clubs Foran would no longer be in the job but it's kinda nice to imagine that we're not like that.

I get that the board struggle at times with getting everything right, and there are certain elements folk can highlight to criticise them, but on the whole they've, in my own humble opinion, done quite a good job overall given what they have to work with.

Mate, I do get what you are saying but football is a business and requires a certain  ruthlessness. My concerns are we may have missed the opportunity to build on our recent success and our crowds continue to hover around 2500. Appreciate you cannot drag folk to games and whoever solves the mystery of the disappearing fans will be a rich man, but do we need changes throughout to try and revitalise the club and bring in fresh ideas.      

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To be fair to the board over the years they got most decisions correct, those they got wrong were major.

1. Employing Brewster when he was no longer a player

2 Failing to sack Brewster when it was obvious he couldn't keep us up and the football was the worst seen in many a year.

and they are about to make the same mistake with Foran.

I liked Foran as a player, wholehearted etc but it is unfair and unrealistic to expect someone to step straight into management in any capacity and expect it to work. Managers in any walk of life have to build up to it and be guided by more experienced heads on how to handle different situations. Once the players start to question Foran's judgement it's all over. Ask yourself honestly, what has changed player wise between JH's last season and RF's season so far?

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8 minutes ago, Sir C the 3rd said:

What is annoying is that we can't want the best for a football team anymore. We're complete idiots if we can't remember the financial implications of keeping a business afloat.

Which is a balance that our club has been adept at achieving for a decade or more.

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Interestingly reading BBC article about the new Uefa report regarding finances in leagues over Europe. 

Scottish top flight clubs rely on gate receipts revenue more than any other league in Europe with it contributing to 37% of revenue. 

So the big challenge for the board is getting bums on seats over anything else. But that comes down to the fans themselves as well. A lot of people would rather spend the day watching games on the TV and such than forking out £100 every weekend to take the family to the football. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

If the board sack RF does that mean they are admitting to making a monumental balls up in awarding a 4 year contract to a former player with no managerial CV. 

Personally I hope Foran can turn it around, relegation would be an absolute disaster that we might struggle to recover from. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Bump. Is there a plan in place? As much as I like Richie it's clear he's (sadly) out of his depth. A new assistant perhaps? New investment?

Something has to give. We need to stay up. Apologies in advance to the happy clappers. 

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Can't call for change the ostriches will get upset and just tell you yesterday didn't matter (although it won't be what they were saying during the week before the game) and its only the league we need to look at. Calls that we will stay up and blind suggestion we are too good, have quality or that Billy will be a saviour are made - while I'd like to agree our long winless run,  lack of confidence, shape and obvious struggle by management to know our best 11 still makes me disagree. We are in full DUTD mode now and some just can't or won't see it. The games sre running out and based on yesterday and the last few months come start of march we will still be without another win and possibly hammered 3 times.

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