Under Pressure ?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Pressure pushing down on me

Pressing down on you, no man asked for

Under pressure, that burns a building down

Splits a family in two

Puts people on streets

Of course TB is under a degree of pressure - the Midden result just adds to the frustration of not being able to sustain the away form in our back yard. The Longman should be a fortress but we are using it as a Dump.

At home we are 9th in the table, six points in front of Hammies who have two games in hand and only two points better off than Aberdire and St Jones Town who also have two games in hand

Played 9 Won 2 Drawn 2 Lost 5 For 11 Against 13 GD -2 Points 8 Yellows 12 Reds 0

Away from home we are second in the table, six points behind Rangers and a point in front of the Jam Tarts and Cellic with two games in hand:

Played 9 Won 5 Drawn 4 Lost 0 For 18 Against 9 GD +9 Points 19 Yellows 12 Reds 0

Those statistics really are amazing but - take away the Old Firm (good point against Rangers) and Jam Tarts (worst home preformance of the season for me) - and lets face it - dropping points to Midden, Hamilton, Well and St Jones Town should not happen.

And it aint got antyhing to do with our disciplinary record either as it is identical at home or away - and here is another interesting wee stat - Shots at home (146) / Shots away (183) - Corners at home (92) / Corners away (124) - WTF ??

So what are the reasons ?

1. It would appear that the large majority of teams - other than the OF - are geared up to defend in depth and hit on the attack away from home - I dont think that we adapt to tackle this and I would say that our home formation and the selection should be different - as we tend to be static and go with who played well the week before.

2. We dont use the width as well at home - for some reason we dont pass as crisply and as accurately - and our concentration at times is simply wayward - that has simply got to be down to confidence and application. I bet that away from home that we go on to the pitch thinking that we can pinch at least a point and at home we go on with a degree of trepidation rite from the onset.

3. Ever see the heads go down away from home ? Ever see the heads go down at home ?

4. When we are facing adversity away from home there is positivity in the tactics and substitutions but at home it is trepidation as well - at away its a case of - feck it lets go fer it - and at home it is a case of better one point than none at all.

5. But sorry but the SUPPORT really is a major influence - enuff said.

Personally a start for me would be an attacking philosophy and get beat 3-2 or 4-3 against Killie - if it meant a change. It simply has to be done

Butcher is charasmatic but we need a sports psychology angle here: This has got a lot to do with self esteem, self confidence,stress /anxiety control, concentration and motivation.

So lets start getting it rite on and off the pitch. See ya in Section G dudes.

?There can only be one state of mind as you approach any profound test; total concentration, a spirit of togetherness, and strength.?

[+Tree]

Tactics

There is definately an issue in terms of the team looking to play on the counter attack at home. Is this Butcher's tactis or simply the team being very comfortable in playing this way? I would actually suggest to some extent the latter (which is understandable given the success away from home).

After the goal was scored on Sunday the team very much dropped deep in an attempt to close out the space in the final third, however this clearly is not as effective at home for some reason. In fact even this was not even done effectively with Foran in particular often sitting too deep to provide cover for Shinnie and then moving forward too late to see the ball simply popped past him. He has to either sit in at this point or the whol eteam has to compress the game up the park.

The amount of time which the St Mirren back four had to find a pass was almost embarrasing. Under very little pressure (i.e. only Rooney) it was not surprising that eventually they were able to pick out the front two - one a big lug and the other a highly mobile and pacy player. How often did our back four have time on the ball?

Certainly against the weaker teams, we need to engage the opposition further up the park and put pressure on the passer. Most teams at this level do not have players who are technically capable of playing a fast one touch type game (I accept that we may need to be a bit more cautious against Rangers and Celtic otherwise we may run out of gas too quickly by overpressing - see the first game of the season!)

Support

I'm not sure we will ever find an answer to this issue, however having attend many English Premier League games the difference in atmosphere is incredible (even allowing for the difference in crowd size) and I am not simply talking about singing.

The most noticible thing is when there is a goal scoring opportunity or dubious refereeing decision almost the whole ground is on their feet being involved. It actually seems that a lot of the crowd just don't seem to care enough about the rsult. Is this a symptom of a relatively young team or a less 'working class' support?

I do think we have gone backwards since Don "gave up" the role of Announcer. We now just have a few songs and the team quickly read out a few minutes before the game. The match starting is now almost an anti-climax.

[RiG]

What is the obsession in this country about running around like a headless chicken chasing the ball as it is passed across the oppositions backline? If our players go tearing after every pass then they are out of position and leave space in behind them which teams will exploit. We can defend just as well by holding your position and force the other team to work much harder to find the space in behind our players. Do you think players like Hayes can afford to waste energy chasing lost cause after lost cause? I don't want him wasting his time chasing down an opposition left back when he needs to conserve energy for running at him for (hopefully) a full 90 minutes.

Indeed one of your points about pressing the opposition higher up the park would have seen us lose more goals the other day as St. Mirren were punting balls over the top for Dargo to chase. Had we pushed further up as you suggest that would have allowed them even more space to hit these balls into and leave a huge gap between our backline and Esson. Dargo would have loved it if we had done that.

[Alex MacLeod]

Could it not just be that folks were a little bit lethargic the day after christmas.

[Georgeios]

It's an ever lasting thing.... I'm happy we are where we are, let's not forget were we where this time last year.... tired legs, lay off.

[CaleyD]

I think the more we dwell on it as fans, the more it will play in the minds of the players. Bit of a catch 22 really.

[Georgeios]

It seems we "fans" make it worse, as it stands I'd like to think they know they've dropped a ball, ill give it till closer to the end of season to start manager bashing.... top six.... then ill stay quiet. Let's lay off n let terry do the bashing just now.

[+DoofersDad]

I think the more we dwell on it as fans, the more it will play in the minds of the players. Bit of a catch 22 really.

Personally I can't think that any of the players give a toss what I say.

But I disagree with your basic point which I take to be that what might be perceived as negative vibes on this forum will have a negative impact on the players. The whole point of the forum is to give folk the opportunity to voice their opinions and it is inevitable that we get some well informed, inteligent comment and some comment that is simply barking mad. Every one has their view and should be able to voice it. And so we will get some overly critical comments which you are free either to debate or ignore. How the players react to what we say is not really our concern. It's a fans' forum and not a players' one. In my view players should be told to ignore it.

To be fair, I think there is very little negativity at the moment but let's not kid ourselves that things couldn't be better. I think nearly everyone feels that sitting 4th at this stage of the season is way beyond our expectatons but I think it is absolutely fair to express some concern about our home form and to debate that. The vast majority of teams do a lot better at home than away - teams in the SPL and ICT in particular seem to buck that trend. Our away form shows that we are a very good side indeed and if only we could translate that into home form then a top 6 finish would be a dead cert and a European spot would be a very realistic target.

It isn't the rantings of ill informed amateurs like me on this forum that will play on the minds of the players, it is theconstant mood of discontent amongst the crowd and the shouts of frustration when there are misplaced passes etc. That simply must add to the pressure the players feel. This is a very valid thread led off well with a good post from IHE. So let's voice any concerns here and not at the stadium.

[CaleyD]

DoofersDad, how you managed to get all that from my one line is beyond me!!!

In no way, shape or form am I suggesting that anyone is not entitled to their opinion....would be more than a tad hypocritical given how opinionated I can be!!!

I'm not even referring to the forum specifically as I think it is more widespread than that. Just about any/every conversation about ICT starts off with how great things have been on the road and ends with a "we just can't seem to do it at home"...not only on here, but everywhere. Not saying that observation is wrong, or that people should not be making the point, just stating that the more everyone dwells on it, the more it becomes embedded in the psyche, the more fans react negatively from the stands on a match day and/or it becomes the expected norm and everyone finds it tough to get gee'd up for the game.....and that WILL be noticed by the players.

Everything feeds back on itself in some way....positive and negative....that's just the nature of things and I also know it would be foolish to suggest that it was any individual thing that was the cause and/or answer, just adding to the discussion.

The players do read this forum, they do talk to fans in the street and way from the stadium, they do read the press....they will be more than aware of the thoughts, opinions and feelings of the fans and it would be naive to think that they thought nothing of that whatsoever....in fact, I know they do and I know it's a large part of what drives them on when they are out there.

I'm not suggesting we can or should be doing anything different as fans, just making an observation and there's no need for people to be reading any more into it than what I have said.

[Coggiebob]

Of course TB is under a degree of pressure - the Midden result just adds to the frustration of not being able to sustain the away form in our At home we are 9th in the table, six points in front of Hammies who have two games in hand and only two points better off than Aberdire and St Jones Town who also have two games in hand

What's with this St Jones Town? Where are you getting this from?

[CaleyD]

Would take too long to explain the workings of IHE's mind....if it was even possible. Just go with the flow

[Coggiebob]

Would take too long to explain the workings of IHE's mind....if it was even possible. Just go with the flow

It's actually spelled St John's Toun.

[TopSix]

I think it's gong to be a good game tomorrow. Killie are the best footballing side in the SPL. Hopefully we won't give them much space to play. I'd be happy with a point, delighted with a win.

[big man]

Just a small point but I just wish they could do something about throw ins.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

My opening post was not meant to be overly critical of anybody but I feel that our home form has to be corrected and I am sure that it must be a "puzzler" to Terry and Mo as well or else it would have been sorted. Personally I have had the best two seasons of entertainment and enjoyment that I have ever had following ICT - ICT Away has become an enigma - and sorry but it is about a feeling of "togetherness".

I really am looking fer an answer and nobody is coming up with one which is rather worrying. I will let you all know as I once again savour a home game again.

oh and BoggieCog its feckin Perf.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Just a small point but I just wish they could do something about throw ins.

Excellent wee point - what about the Granty option. But then again what about corners as well.

[Coggiebob]

oh and BoggieCog its feckin Perf.

:lol:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

oh and BoggieCog its feckin Perf.

:lol:

[Ronaldo]

In many ways, I've always thought the days work starts for any football team when they go 1 - 0 up. It should motivate any team to really get going and put the pressure on their opponents.

For whatever reason, sadly the opposite happened to us on Sunday.

[Scarlet Pimple]

If we think that the views of the few posters on here, relative to the size of the crowds at Tulloch Stadium on match day, has much of an influence on the players and the total crowd dynamic then we small band of posters have delusions of grandeur.

I feel certain that they all pay much more attention to Terry than to any of us.

However, I feel that attack is the best form of defense --AND leads to a more entertaining brand of football for the paying patron. Honest endeavour going forward will always be a better crowd-pleaser than deliberate,doughty defending. And that's my tuppence worth the noo.

[PullMyFinger]

Those statistics really are amazing but - take away the Old Firm (good point against Rangers) and Jam Tarts (worst home preformance of the season for me) - and lets face it - dropping points to Midden, Hamilton, Well and St Jones Town should not happen.

Are we all Dundee fans all of a sudden?

[caley100]

The mention of poor throws in's reminded me how bad we are at this, Jeez it getting to the stage that we are as well just giving the ball staight to the opposition because thats all that happens most of the time anyway.

Other team seem to handle throw ins fairly well, surely it could be practised during training? i'm getting fed up with mannies moaning about it!

[davie]

Under pressure? No. Underachieving? No. Getting the best out of this group of players? Usually. Tactically awry? Sometimes. That's life people, and carping when we are 4th in the SPL ain't cutting it for me. The only thing a change to a more attacking style in the SPL will achieve is the loss of more goals. we could get away with that in the 1st once we got the measure of it by simply scoring more than the opposition, but not here. Even in the games that we've lost, the displays have been not too bad. Motherwell was close, Hamilton close, Celtic close. The only team that have run over the top of us is Hearts, who have genuine aspirations to be third. The fact that we are right behind them shows us that we have every right to be there, and that's been achieved by our away record and the fact that we are a counter attacking side. It's where our strength lies, and it probably accounts for the reluctance to change tactics that, in the main, serve us very well indeed. By the measures above, if we beat Kilmarnock it will be by a pretty narrow margin. I'd probably take a draw. I'd then be happy.

[Gabby]

Butcher is incapable of managing a team to play attacking footie. In fact, this is the reason he was sacked from his other managerial positions. I know this is why he was sacked from Sydney FC. they had a squad that was accustomed to playing attractive, attacking football and he tried to apply his defensive, play of the break style footy. It lead to Sydney laying well in the bottom half of the table. His managerial philosophy is not suited to "bigger clubs".

Butcher's style is well suited to us and clubs like Motherwell - this is why he would never succees at a club like Rangers or promotion chasing clubs in England.

As fans we need to recognise his strengths and accept his weaknesses and understand that he and ICT are a perfect match.

Rant over

[Coggiebob]

Those statistics really are amazing but - take away the Old Firm (good point against Rangers) and Jam Tarts (worst home preformance of the season for me) - and lets face it - dropping points to Midden, Hamilton, Well and St Jones Town should not happen.

I can't believe the arrogance of this statement. Inverness, Hamilton, St. Johnstone and St. Mirren are all teams of equal size. Why can't any of these teams regularly take points off of each other? What makes a team who have only just been promoted remember, seem to think they have the divine right to turn up and claim points before a ball is kicked? Caley are on an enviable run of form just now. That can't be called into question but in reality are just a small team as are these other sides mentioned. Howden needs to drop the Old Firm attitude and live in the real world.