Is Butcher the Man for the Job?

[Proctor]

As I have said before I disagree with many things Butcher does/has done but as long as he is in the job I want to see him do well. I will however not give him my blind support just because he is in the job. The coming weeks will shape mine and many people's opinions on Butchers future, as is the nature of football.

In terms of other posters asking people to stop being negetive, this is a forum; a place meant for discussion. Posters are meant to share their opinions even if others disagree with them. I'm glad that not everyone on here is reading from the same hymm sheet because if we were it would be a pretty boring place. As long as discussion doesnt descend into petty arguments and name calling.

If TB or anyone from the club does read this board. I'm sure they realise that in their nature of work not everyone is going to agree with what they do and people will voice their opinion. Again as long as this doesnt cross a line into personal insults aimed at these people then I don't see an issue.

[starchief]

As I have said before I disagree with many things Butcher does/has done but as long as he is in the job I want to see him do well. I will however not give him my blind support just because he is in the job. The coming weeks will shape mine and many people's opinions on Butchers future, as is the nature of football.

Absolutely fine. It's my opinion too. It's calling for his head after a single defeat in the SPL to the current and future champions that's the problem. If he doesn't perform, then it will perhaps be time for a change. Perhaps not, depending.

Despite attempts to make a number of people 'happy clappers' - it's not. Butcher has been reasonably successful so far I'd say. If that stops, then is the time to ask the question. Motherwell was a poor scoreline. Celtic? Well, you just have to know that sometimes your team will get thrashed. And I include Aberdeen, Dundee United and Hearts - they often lose heavily to the OF too.

Judging Terry on a reasonable set of results against our main rivals is neither happy clapping or being a neggy. It's realism. And it's how Butcher would like to be judged too. It's still too early to judge if we'll have a successful season or not. So, yeah, let's see.

[caleyboy]

As I have said before I disagree with many things Butcher does/has done but as long as he is in the job I want to see him do well. I will however not give him my blind support just because he is in the job. The coming weeks will shape mine and many people's opinions on Butchers future, as is the nature of football.

Absolutely fine. It's my opinion too. It's calling for his head after a single defeat in the SPL to the current and future champions that's the problem. If he doesn't perform, then it will perhaps be time for a change. Perhaps not, depending.

Despite attempts to make a number of people 'happy clappers' - it's not. Butcher has been reasonably successful so far I'd say. If that stops, then is the time to ask the question. Motherwell was a poor scoreline. Celtic? Well, you just have to know that sometimes your team will get thrashed. And I include Aberdeen, Dundee United and Hearts - they often lose heavily to the OF too.

Judging Terry on a reasonable set of results against our main rivals is neither happy clapping or being a neggy. It's realism. And it's how Butcher would like to be judged too. It's still too early to judge if we'll have a successful season or not. So, yeah, let's see.

Spot on. If we split the SPL in 3, I feel we will be fighting the battle in the bottom section all season so we need wins against the 3 teams around us home and away, not an easy task but one which should see us survive. Against the top 8 teams, I still see us getting some good home wins, good away draws and the odd away win. This will obviously all depend on TB and MM immediately sorting out what is the WORST defence seen at this club.

Edited September 5, 2012 by caleyboy

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

As I have said before I disagree with many things Butcher does/has done but as long as he is in the job I want to see him do well. I will however not give him my blind support just because he is in the job. The coming weeks will shape mine and many people's opinions on Butchers future, as is the nature of football.

Absolutely fine. It's my opinion too. It's calling for his head after a single defeat in the SPL to the current and future champions that's the problem. If he doesn't perform, then it will perhaps be time for a change. Perhaps not, depending.

Despite attempts to make a number of people 'happy clappers' - it's not. Butcher has been reasonably successful so far I'd say. If that stops, then is the time to ask the question. Motherwell was a poor scoreline. Celtic? Well, you just have to know that sometimes your team will get thrashed. And I include Aberdeen, Dundee United and Hearts - they often lose heavily to the OF too.

Judging Terry on a reasonable set of results against our main rivals is neither happy clapping or being a neggy. It's realism. And it's how Butcher would like to be judged too. It's still too early to judge if we'll have a successful season or not. So, yeah, let's see.

Spot on. If we split the SPL in 3, I feel we will be fighting the battle in the bottom section all season so we need wins against the 3 teams around us home and away, not an easy task but one which should see us survive. Against the top 8 teams, I still see us getting some good home wins, good away draws and the odd away win. This will obviously all depend on TB and MM immediately sorting out what is the WORST defence seen at this club.

A defence bought by Terry Butcher . 5 league games played without a win , not good enough .

[absent friend]

My understanding is that Butcher rules with an iron fist.

I assume this understanding comes from ex-players?

I believe in this day and age that man management is the key to getting the most from players. Butcher believes that he is exempt from any kind of critisism - hence the regular verbals with ict supporters.

I again assume that the vocal criticism is delivered in a reasonable manner - "Terry, your left back appears to be leaving a bit of a space when he is upfield attacking?" or maybe it is delivered by a 'match of the day', knowledgeable, loud mouth - "Get him off the effing park, Butcher" to which our manager, protecting his player, replies -"**** off"

Oh the shame .. a manager answering back to a poor defenceless punter and making the punters ice cold lager boil inside!

Bear in mind that Ict will only ever consist of players who are very young and come through our youth system, or those who have already tried and failed at this level before.

If this be the calibre of the makeup of his team that he puts on the park, he must be a good man manager to bring their heads up after all the defeats he has had this year .. Oh wait, he only has had two defeats and that was against the two teams that qualified for Europe.

Running a team the way he does does nothing to instill confidence and runs the risk of destroying the confidence of some players.

His team appeared to be confident for a long time after we got him, in fact they performed so well that his away days are still discussed as 'simply the best'!

I would like to see him gone, regardless of who comes in, because i believe that he does more harm than good with his approach and mentality.

I feel sure many mothers of Fergie's Aberdeen team felt the same way but in hindsight not many of his players from that era will admit to it being a bad experience. Man management of the young can be somewhat tricky .. ask Big T!

[+DoofersDad]

According to http://www.footballd...lubs.php?Id=194 ICT are ranked 935 in the World. Terry will have to go if we drop out of the top 1000 but he can have the freedom of the city if we break into the top 500.

[+DoofersDad]

According to http://www.footballd...lubs.php?Id=194 ICT are ranked 935 in the World. Terry will have to go if we drop out of the top 1000 but he can have the freedom of the city if we break into the top 500.

Ross County are ranked 730!

Obviously an unreliable sh*te site.

[+DoofersDad]

It is an unreliable sh*te site. It has Port Talbot Town ranked above Wolves. Nearly as absurd as ranking County above us.

Terry, forget about top 500 for freedom of the city - just stick to winning the Scottish Cup - that should do the trick.

[Bronson]

Absent friend - are your thoughts backed up by facts or just your opinion? :wink:

[Scarlet Pimple]

Didn't Alex Ferguson rule with an iron fist also? He even went so far as to kick a boot at so-called top players on occasion. Didn't seem to stop his run of successes, did it?

Since when was a fair bit of discipline and control a bad thing for the younger players--and maybe for a few of the older ones too.

Terry is probably from the old school when there was a fair bit of respect for those older than thou. It just came with the territory. Nowadays many of the younger element think they are the equal of their elders despite having the life experience of a gnat.

I repeat, let's give the Manager a fair break, and time to consolidate his team and his plans before jumping down his throat .

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Agree that he needs a bit more time but that should not shelter him from constructive criticism - which appears to have become a by-law on this forum !!

[lukemackay]

The way I see it butcher has been here three FULL seasons and in one of them he got us promoted brilliantly and gave us our best ever league finish. So that's 2/3 very good seasons and lets be honest at the start of last season most on here said staying up would be our no 1 goal and we did so he's done his job last season whether people on here liked how he did it or not.

Why sack a man for giving what fans ask for?

[AJS]

People will never be totally happy with Butcher now after he broke the team out of their comfort zone. He got rid of the old guard and has tried to put his own stamp on the team which has backfired on him amongst financial difficulty and a failure to retain our better players.

He has done what he can to put the team back together over the summer and has also been willing to give the younger lads a chance with places up for grab and i will always respect him for that. His new style is drawing debate after the weekend and i agree with some comments that maybe sometimes we should focus more on getting results rather than playing well and losing. While its a honorable approach it is more likely to see us on the end of a defeat, especially against better teams.

Give the man some time. Still dosent know what his best team is and has had a difficult set of fixtures to contend with at the start of the season.

[Renegade]

I'm no believer in this view that just because a manager has had success in the past means that they should be untouchable or is the man for the job for life. John Beck managed two consecutive promotions at Cambridge United and in his third season was sixteen minutes from guiding them to the inaugural Premiership season in 1992. They just missed out and no more. The following season, he had them hurtling towards relegation with both fading away into obscurity ever since. Paul Le Guen is another one. His record pre-Rangers was very strong, but it didn't save him from the sack.

There's an old saying that a manager's second season is always his best and where Butcher is concerned it could be argued that he has two at ICT. The season after relegation was his second season here and his first full one in charge. As we all know, it was very successful. The season after as well (his second full season here), was also fairly successful and on another day could well have obtained a top six finish. It should also be noted, that both these seasons contained players that could be described as "vintage ICT" who had been at the club for a number of years, with Stuart Golabek's return being the only one instated by Butcher himself. Many though seem to forget, that ICT should have stayed up in 2009, but Butcher blew it with weeks remaining, opting to play the weaker and already leaving Michael Fraser over Esson and playing Pavels Mihadjuks out of position in the final game. While it's true that most of the damage was done under Brewster, Butcher certainly played his part.

Just because someone has been the "man for the job" in the past, does not mean he always will be or should be in the job for life. Very few managers ever go to a club without it eventually turning sour, or becoming progressively stale and Butcher's time may now be upon us. Not long before he left Motherwell, I remember reading that while many fans did not want to see him fired, they did feel that he had run his course. I believe this may be scenario more and more of us will find ourselves in, in the very near future.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Renegade

[lukemackay]

It doesn't make him invincible but it should at least buy him some time.

This season is we are hurtling towards relegation or underachieving then fair enough sack him but as it stands we are in the last 16 of a cup possibly two games away from hampden, and have had a decent start to the season Motherwell and Celtic games aside. So the question shouldn't even be asked at this moment.

[Renegade]

Now that I agree with. I am by no means advocating to sack him this minute and the next couple of months will be the most telling of how the season will pan out, and he should have the time to do that. What I would say though, is that the Highland Derby in October could well be the most important match in the history of his managerial career and should ICT be on the end of a drubbing with Munro, Tokely and Duncan running the show, then in many people's eyes his position may well become untenable.

[lukemackay]

Il wait and see and see in that front. Dnot know how il react if that happens but hopefully by that stage we will have gelled and will be playing very nice football.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

Il wait and see and see in that front. Dnot know how il react if that happens but hopefully by that stage we will have gelled and will be playing very nice football.

I hope you're right Luke. Keep the rose tinted spectacles nice and clean!

[lukemackay]

the signs are there just not the finished article right now. In a months time we can be.

[ferben1994]

Il wait and see and see in that front. Dnot know how il react if that happens but hopefully by that stage we will have gelled and will be playing very

nice football.

i know how i'll react.

it wont be pretty

that is all!!

[AJS]

Il wait and see and see in that front. Dnot know how il react if that happens but hopefully by that stage we will have gelled and will be playing very

nice football.

i know how i'll react.

it wont be pretty

that is all!!

[+bughtmaster]

Agree that he needs a bit more time but that should not shelter him from constructive criticism - which appears to have become a by-law on this forum !!

Should that not be DESTRUCTIVE criticism ? that is the by-law?

Sounds all a bit threatening to me in places, perhaps one of your counselling sessions would be in order here to take the anger out of some of the punters before they become too disturbed.

[ferben1994]

my comment was more meant in the way of self harmin than a threat.

i hate them!!! so feckin much!!!"

[AJS]

my comment was more meant in the way of self harmin than a threat.

i hate them!!! so feckin much!!!"

Not sure whats worse. Your overuse of exclamation marks or the fact you feel the need to self harm over football

[+bughtmaster]

Dont do it ferben94 ...............every cloud has a silver lining.............