Sign in to follow this  
tm4tj

Matchday - Alloa v Inverness CT LC

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

  1.  John Hughes wasnt sacked. He engineered his own way out after his working relationship with the chairman broke down. Not sure anyone but the chairman and JH and maybe a few others know the exact ins and outs of this but Craig Brewster remains the only manager we have sacked.  

 

Not quite right, Baltacha was also sacked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are surely not comparing losing to teams in the same league as us as being worse?

The Queens Park defeat came when we were on our way to winning the first division and Queens Park were in the bottom division, two leagues below us, that is almost as bad, at least we scored in that one and missed a penalty.

County scored five breakaway goals but we were both in the same league. Hard to take, but not as bad as Alloa defeat.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, tm4tj said:

You are surely not comparing losing to teams in the same league as us as being worse?

The Queens Park defeat came when we were on our way to winning the first division and Queens Park were in the bottom division, two leagues below us, that is almost as bad, at least we scored in that one and missed a penalty.

County scored five breakaway goals but we were both in the same league. Hard to take, but not as bad as Alloa defeat.

We lost to Ayr away when Butcher was manager in this cup. Cant remember score but we were awful that night. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, old caley girl said:

We lost to Ayr away when Butcher was manager in this cup. Cant remember score but we were awful that night. 

I've just Googled that one. 1-0 Ayr August 2011. It's the last time Caley Thistle played Ayr. The time before that was in April 2010 when nothing at all was going wrong and it was 7-0 ICT.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure why drapes was left out last Saturday but I seem to recall that plastic pitches are not to Drapes liking so that might have influenced the selection v Alloa. However if Drapes is left out on Saturday and Mulrahney starts I will question Richie's judgement . Learn by your mistakes and I am sure he will.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, tm4tj said:

You are surely not comparing losing to teams in the same league as us as being worse?

The Queens Park defeat came when we were on our way to winning the first division and Queens Park were in the bottom division, two leagues below us, that is almost as bad, at least we scored in that one and missed a penalty.

County scored five breakaway goals but we were both in the same league. Hard to take, but not as bad as Alloa defeat.

Apart from possibly Queen's at home, or Partick in the Cup, last night was the worst ever. Ask anyone who was there last night amongst the noisy away support and who weren't even acknowledged at the end by the players. A competition in which we had hopes of doing well, and a game against a part-time, relegated team in one of the scruffiest wee stadiums in the SPFL. As tm4tj says you can't compare league games to that. Especially meaningless end of season games v Forfar. Or a 6-0 thumping at Airdrie or a 5-1 on a Friday night at Morton. As I'm a good bit younger and more compos mentis than Bannerman I can point out from memory that the game after we beat Celtic in 2000 was a fairly routine 2-0 defeat away at St Mirren.

  • Agree 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Ballistic link I was thinking about was actually the 5-1 defeats that season by Morton and Airdrie. I also don't think you can exclude games because of allegedly extenuating circumstances like breakaway goals or end of season. Bad is bad and same division encounters aren't exempt either.

If players consciously failed to acknowledge fans who had travelled to a central belt modweek game, and had not ben hostile towards them at full time, then I would be concerned at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we are all entitled to our opinion, there's no right or wrong formula and we need to respect that. Would I pay over 40 pounds for a ticket to generate more collateral to bring better players, sure would! At the crux of it, was the lack of communication amongst the Caley players I saw at firhill. Patrick doubled up on our wingers brilliantly, can hardly recall Tremarco making a surging run at all, he was a lost shadow. Warren always impresses me, solid and a natural motivator. I'm going with my gut feeling and as a collective assembly of players (as a cohesive team against stronger opposition), we lack width, creativity and fire power in the final third. Long ball after wasted long ball after wasted long ball after wasted long ball. 

Edited by Elgin1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

No it's not. It's living in cloud cuckoo land. How often does it need to be explained that the money simply isn't there - and if it was, it would indeed be prudently spent on the playing squad? You can't spend money you don't have and if you try to do so, you will soon go the way of Dundee, Motherwell, Rangers, Livingston etc. For the last 16 years the directors of Caley Thistle have - mercifully - been very aware of The Micawber Principle (as stated in Dickens' David Copperfield) and have at least ALMOST been able to put it into practice.

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds nought and six, result misery."

But for the board's long term efforts to live by that principle, Caley Thistle would have long since gone the way it very nearly did in 1999-2000. I just don't understand how some fail to grasp the concept that you just can't go into the player market with closed eyes and open cheque book. You need to live within your means and if you don't you will soon head for the lower leagues or worse. It's a minor miracle that, with the income streams that have been available, Caley Thistle has been able to field a team which has done what it has. To have maintained an almost unbroken SPL/Premiership presence since 2004 on the kind of resources we are talking about is an incredible feat and you just have to laugh at these suggestions that they should just go and spend their way out of any problem.

Look at it an alternative way - if you want to be entertained by better players than the club's finances can currently afford, how much more would you be prepared to pay for tickets in order to obtain the improved product? I've already said elsewhere that the cost of running the club under its present, prudent regime is around £44 per bum on seat.

Tuesday night the worst result ever? I don't think so. Off the top of my head I could think of a League Cup defeat - at home - by Queens Park, a 5-1 defeat - at home - by Ross County, a 4-0 humiliation - at home - by Forfar at the end of D3 championship season and a complete stinker off the back of the Ballistic night, the details of which I forget. There are doubtless more.

Finally... those who have swung from the "Foran is Messiah" euphoria of the Dundee United and Arbroath outcomes and performances to the "Foran is the Devil Incarnate" doom and despair of Partick Thistle and Alloa should either acquire a sense of balance and proportion or a source of lithium!

Charles your opinion is so biased it is beyond belief.. if the board had been proactive with longer contracts rather than reactive then we would have received the greater investment from the sale of players like Shinnie, Christie, Watkins, Mckay, Ross.. and so on.  Instead they negotiated minimum contracts and tried to negotiate extensions when there was already interest elsewhere and we couldn't compete .. running a business isn't the same as running a household.  You have to speculate to accumulate and by deciding what risks are worth taking and by using the judgement of their coaches to identify which players could produce a fee in the future and then back them.  We have lost money by them being so financially prudent.  

In fact the only time we decided to offer a reasonable length contract to a player when for some ridiculous reason they offered a 32 year old Foran a 4 year playing contract, which he was injured for the majority of ... and then they promote him to manager and again offer another 4 year contract for his first job as manager.  It is complete madness.... who would have predicted a 33 year old player might be more susceptible to injury... maybe they thought he was going to demand a high transfer fee!?   

That is not the point though.. the club have actually somehow managed to bring in additional finance over the last 4 years due to cup runs, and high league finishes, the sale of Christie and Mckay (although for less that we could have received for both) .... all the contracts for higher earning players in the Scottish cup winning team when they left and were never replaced .... NONE OF THIS MONEY HAS BEEN REINVESTED! If that money has only balanced the books then they are doing a pi55 poor job of running the club because we were operating at our peak and will be lucky to see those days again. 

No one expects us to be offering thousands of pounds for players but we have shown absolutely no progression since winning the Scottish Cup, the players we have signed since then have not been of the same or better standard. Would any of them get in that first team? We are going backwards and Foran will have to work miracles in his first job to see us safe from relegation ... how can that be what the fans should expect given where we were only 2 years ago?

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Scotty said:

HarryChibber makes some very good points, and I would agree that our start has been less than acceptable, and that none of us want to see RF fail, but I would take issue with a few things

  1. Dont think this is our worst result ever. Bad? absolutely, but worst? no.  only a handful of others I can think come close 
  2. There's a couple of references to the club being unable to afford sports specialists or refusing to put money into the team. I have a simple question. Where is the money coming from ? As a club we make a six figure loss every single season unless we have a cup run or windfall of some description. This is not bad management of our finances, it is simple math based on our incomings and outgoings and low crowds. There are certain levels and standards we have to meet to play in the top league and the club have also been careful when it comes to other things that we might like (eg a streaming audio/video service) where costs may take away from the playing budget. The board run a very tight financial ship. I just made the point we don't have any specialists but I would say there are ways of being creative with this. Fans can be used as tools to produce statistics etc. just look at what you and Caley D have done with websites etc.  I worked for Falkirk for a bit doing a bit of scouting in the central belt and wasn't even that bothered about the money was just looked after with corporate days and sports equipment. Offer work experience posts etc. etc. 
  3. It constantly winds me up that people only see one side of the story ... be that the so-called happy clappers, or indeed the doom and gloom merchants. There's a fine line between top and bottom six every season and although it is true to say we were in the bottom six last year we were not really in any danger of relegation. Also, when we lose players every year sometimes its because we just cant keep them either because they want more money than our finances can afford, because they themselves (or their agents) want to move, or yes, in some cases because the manager deems them surplus to requirements. its not always one-sided. I want us to do well and was optimistic after watching us destroy Arbroath but we were rotten against Alloa.  We looked as though we really lacked quality and work ethic. As for losing players, it is inevitable at times but the board should be proactive to make sure it is not a massive turnover every year by offering contracts earlier to players we think might demand a fee or are worth the investment for more than just 2 years.  
  4.  John Hughes wasnt sacked. He engineered his own way out after his working relationship with the chairman broke down. Not sure anyone but the chairman and JH and maybe a few others know the exact ins and outs of this but Craig Brewster remains the only manager we have sacked.  John Hughes was trying to use the media to get investment from the board to progress the club.  The way he went about it was wrong but I agree with his intentions... if you are not moving forward your are moving backwards.  It's the board's job to secure investment and they need to work harder to do it. Sounds ungrateful but it's the harsh reality  

 

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

If players consciously failed to acknowledge fans who had travelled to a central belt modweek game, and had not ben hostile towards them at full time, then I would be concerned at that.

I didn't see an issue with it. Our players worked hard. Alloa were well organised and kept a good shape. They stifled our play and I thought Goodwin did an excellent job keeping them organised. If we're going to play wide, we'll need to sign players who can cross the ball into the box. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, if we are going to play with more width I would like to see us use wingers who play on the same flank as their stronger foot. Both Mulraney and King have been constantly cutting inside and on Tuesday there was already a lot of congestion in the centre of the pitch where Alloa were stifling the game. Boden also played with his back to goal when this happened and didn't often look to run off the last defender like a Mckay or Storey. 

We seemed to have a wee bit more luck when King switched to the right flank and Doran was on the left and we started to get in behind the Alloa full backs a bit more and play crosses into the box for Fisher to attack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Elgin1 said:

I think we are all entitled to our opinion, there's no right or wrong formula and we need to respect that. Would I pay over 40 pounds for a ticket to generate more collateral to bring better players, sure would! At the crux of it, was the lack of communication amongst the Caley players I saw at firhill. Patrick doubled up on our wingers brilliantly, can hardly recall Tremarco making a surging run at all, he was a lost shadow. Warren always impresses me, solid and a natural motivator. I'm going with my gut feeling and as a collective assembly of players (as a cohesive team against stronger opposition), we lack width, creativity and fire power in the final third. Long ball after wasted long ball after wasted long ball after wasted long ball. 

It is very commendable of you to offer to pay over £40 a ticket to fund additional or better players but the fact is that the vast majority of fans are simply not in a position to make that sort of commitment much as they care for and support the club.

That sort of pricing would result in crowds in the hundreds rather than thousands. If you personally feel like it you could always by a second ticket and donate it to someone who could not otherwise afford to attend. That way you would be spending the forty odd pounds you are prepared to pay, the club would get some extra cash and some deserving person would benefit.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Charles Bannerman said:

I think the Ballistic link I was thinking about was actually the 5-1 defeats that season by Morton and Airdrie. I also don't think you can exclude games because of allegedly extenuating circumstances like breakaway goals or end of season. Bad is bad and same division encounters aren't exempt either.

The very fact that you dredged up, as evidence, games that were quickly forgotten by everybody else kind of kills your argument though. Yet another case of everybody being oot o step except oor Tearlach :whistle:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Elgin1 is obviously on the wind up, my guess is he could be a member of the resurfacing N.E.S.C 

Anyway I'm not totally outraged by the result, you have to remember the playing surface Alloa are great at home as they have a huge advantage over their opponents despite having far inferior players

Wait and see Celtic take 6 or 7 off them in the next round when they are back to playing on grass

Artificial surfaces should be banned in Scotland, leave them for Iceland,Norway etc and the MLS

What is concerning though is the players not acknowledging the travelling fans at the end and the managers reluctance to start Draper

There has already been speculation about Drapers future and a possible switch across the Kessock Bridge, by not playing him will only fan the fire of these rumours

 

Dougal

 

  • Disagree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, dougal said:

There has already been speculation about Drapers future and a possible switch across the Kessock Bridge, by not playing him will only fan the fire of these rumours

Erm, Draper did play on Tuesday.

EDIT: Can't believe I'm responding to an obvious WUM :laugh:

Edited by RiG
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, dougal said:

Elgin1 is obviously on the wind up, my guess is he could be a member of the resurfacing N.E.S.C 

Anyway I'm not totally outraged by the result, you have to remember the playing surface Alloa are great at home as they have a huge advantage over their opponents despite having far inferior players

Wait and see Celtic take 6 or 7 off them in the next round when they are back to playing on grass

Artificial surfaces should be banned in Scotland, leave them for Iceland,Norway etc and the MLS

What is concerning though is the players not acknowledging the travelling fans at the end and the managers reluctance to start Draper

There has already been speculation about Drapers future and a possible switch across the Kessock Bridge, by not playing him will only fan the fire of these rumours

 

Dougal

 

If there is such a rumour then it's confined to Planet Dougal and it's hoards of native Invernessians still boycotting the TCS over events that took place last millennium.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, RiG said:

Erm, Draper did play on Tuesday.

EDIT: Can't believe I'm responding to an obvious WUM :laugh:

Sorry I meant starting, he should be the first pick every week, the fact he played down the Merkinch on Wednesday night speaks volumes to me

Something not healthy with the whole Draper situation as the guy is 100% fit and has no niggling injuries

Dougal

Edited by dougal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe when someone said Draper might be heading along a main trunk road out of Inverness, he forgot about the A96!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have had a couple of disappointing performances and results but I guess the feeling of disappointment is felt more acutely as a result of the high expectations generated by outstanding performances in the 2 previous games. It's important to keep a bit of perspective here.  Regardless of whether criticism of the Board is justified (some probably is and some probably isn't) the fact remains that given the resources available, our club has been kicking above it's weight for several seasons now.  We have been helped by the problems some of the biggest clubs have created for themselves by their own financial mismanagement but they are now all on their way back (or, in The Rangers case, replaced by a clone club - The Clone Rangers) and this will make the top flight more competitive again.  Top six will be a major achievement in the future and just staying in the top flight represents success for a club of our size.

Our situation is also affected by the managerial position.  Whilst some refer to Hughes as being our most successful manager ever, the reality is that the club has gone backwards considerably under his tenure.  When he took over we had a great squad playing attractive football and who were 2nd in the league.  He left the club with us relieved to have narrowly escaped the relegation dog fight in a weaker league.  He transformed the playing style to one which bored the pants of most fans.  And he oversaw the departure of many of our better players and, despite a bigger budget, was unable to recruit players of the quality of those departing. It is now left to Foran to pick up the pieces.

Would we have beaten Alloa if Hughes was still manager?  No!  Had Hughes still been manager we would not have been playing Alloa as I doubt we would have got out of our qualifying group.  What the Dunfermline and Arbroath games demonstrated is the kind of entertaining attacking football Foran would like to deliver.  What the games against Partick and Alloa demonstrated was how difficult it will to deliver that vision on a regular basis against better and more organised teams,

This is going to be a long hard season.  We will all have our hopes and dreams, but the reality is that not being relegated will be a decent outcome for us.  No doubt as the season progresses I will express exasperation at some of the things Foran does (for instance, like others. I think Draper needs to be starting) but I think we need to trust in the Board's judgement and in their faith in Foran in giving him a long term contract.  He's been left a very difficult task by the previous manager and we need to give him our full support and be realistic about what can be achieved this season. 

 

 

  • Agree 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, dougal said:

Sorry I meant starting, he should be the first pick every week, the fact he played down the Merkinch on Wednesday night speaks volumes to me

Something not healthy with the whole Draper situation as the guy is 100% fit and has no niggling injuries

Dougal

I think he should be starting ever week. I wonder if he has a niggly knock and is trying to get his fitness back. Extra game time will help.

Regardless, he's a must start against County on Saturday if he's fully fit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, RiG said:

I think he should be starting ever week. I wonder if he has a niggly knock and is trying to get his fitness back. Extra game time will help.

Regardless, he's a must start against County on Saturday if he's fully fit.

Could not agree more.  His aggressive style of play and ball winning ability in midfield is just what we need to wind County up. Probably worth a goal start to us at the expense, no doubt, of a yellow card.  I too have been concerned at Draper not starting recent games.  Hope it is just a lingering niggle injury as suggested by others, and nothing more sinister.

A good win on Saturday will reinstate the confidence in the team,  and supporters, which was evident at two or three of the early season games.

Onwards and upwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

It is very commendable of you to offer to pay over £40 a ticket to fund additional or better players but the fact is that the vast majority of fans are simply not in a position to make that sort of commitment much as they care for and support the club.

That sort of pricing would result in crowds in the hundreds rather than thousands. If you personally feel like it you could always by a second ticket and donate it to someone who could not otherwise afford to attend. That way you would be spending the forty odd pounds you are prepared to pay, the club would get some extra cash and some deserving person would benefit.

Aye, take your point cove, but where's my extra 20 pound/ ticket or extra say 350 pounds a year going to go? Are you going to draft in a 6th pupil from Millburn Academy school footy team - might give us more width afterall as would be a smaller player :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • FB_caley_thisle_online_970x90.jpg

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.