Administration impact

[CaleyTennis85]

I am going to post this as a separate discussion but feel free to merge into the Admin by 16 October discussion if that's what would be best, admins/mods .

I have one or 2 questions that I need answered regarding the imminent administration. The first is, how long will we suffer and can we get back to the Championship within 5yrs or so because I seem to recall Hearts and Dundee being able to get out of the mire pretty quickly but I also have a vague recollection of Reading not being able to quite as quickly, in fact I think they may still be suffering a little bit?  

I really don't want administration as I just don't like the idea of minus 15pts but if it's what Savage wants then we just have to trust his judgement etc, I also fear that nearly ALL of our best players will leave and we'll be stuck with the under 18s which may not be a bad thing tbh but I just can't stomach another relegation, last few have been hard without adding another one to the memory!

[STFU]

Without sorting out the off field problems then there is no club going forward at any level. Administration is the only realistic means of achieving that.

We all need to get thoughts of returns to the championship in x number of years out of our heads for now. Whilst we initially climbed through the leagues without reckless spending there was still sizeable financial contributions being made each season by a few different people over the years. None moreso than Sutherland/Tullochs who saved us from a very similar position previously. Although the circumstances causing that were a bit different.

Most of these people are done with providing financial windfalls and we're fortunate to have someone willing to make one laat contribution to dig us out of the whole.

The club must be rebuilt on a self sustaining basis. Even with the potential for investors coming in they cannot be allowed to run up debt to anyone including themselves. Invest in infrastructure and improving income and not on unsustainable player wages etc.

[Starscape]

I would imagine the people there at the beginning, like myself, were just excited by the prospect of a Scottish League team. I thought we'd be more of a Stirling Albion side, rather than matching Hibs and Hearts. I like Charlie's vision of a n 8-8-8 (see video) club. Getting Strachan in at full-back and seeing him progressing is more interest to me than parachuting in 'someone from Luton', even if it does take a few years.

[+Northern_jaggie]

I liked the chat about raiding the Highland League for the best players, there’s surely a good few that could step up to League 2 or maybe a handful to League 1. Feels sustainable in terms of finances and club identity. 
 

What about putting an ICT scout in touch with fans connected to the Highland or North Caledonia league? Surely no harm to come of that. 

[LisleRightPeg]

Getting the best players from the HFL sounds like a good plan but clubs aren’t going to give us there best players for free! Can we afford transfer fees? The top 4 or 5 clubs in the HFL have ambitions to become a League 2 team themselves 

[+snorbens_caleyman]

So much speculation about where we can get players and a new manager from.  That we'll be in League 2.  That the club will continue.

There are no guarantees.  Morrison might reclaim his stadium - though what good to him an empty stadium would be, I don't know.  Redevelopment costs would be enormous and would require a change to the ground lease.  And we couldn't afford to pay rent to him.

More concerning is the question of who would want to take over and invest money into the club.  Others have cited Dundee and Hearts, but they are in much larger, football-orientated cities, even though they have the disadvantage of other Premiership clubs very close by.  We have that problem, too, but don't have the support to mitigate it.

Obviously Savage knows infinitely more about the situation than I do.  But I fear for the future of the club.

[bishbashbosh]

CC mentioned an 8-8-8 squad (8 academy, 8 pro’s, 8 HL) getting highland league players as we were successful doing it before. Players like  Russel Duncan, Roy macbain, tokely etc

back then there was only caley thistle and Ross county and we were full time (1997 on) , now there is Peterhead (2000), cove (2019) , Elgin (2000) dipping into the same pot.

The better players will be in Aberdeen / Dundee area so these new teams will be more attractive to HL players due to less travel if we are part time. If full time can we afford the cost of relocating them to Inverness, definitely not.

We have tried it in recent years but players made more money working a normal day job and playing football part time. (Bavidge, megginson wouldn’t sign making more £££ working and playing part time)
If we do go part time would players want to work 8-5 then travel 2 nights a week to Inverness for training ( if they train where they are does that become the kelty model) then away every Saturday,  every week.?

russel Duncan, Roy macbain Ross tokely were full time living in the area.

Google says we went full time 1997 so from 1994 players must have travelled to training or trained where they lived I can’t remember.

10 highland league teams east of Elgin.

[CaleyTennis85]

I maybe posted this discussion a day earlier than I should have because I finally got round to watching the YouTube coverage of Monday's meeting, I suppose that did really give much info on my question of how long it will take us to recover from administration.  

Points that I agreed with are that we need to get the community back onside, it seems like that is something Alan Savage is trying to achieve but it won't be easy because a certain CEO really pissed them off.  

I also liked the suggestion of having a supporters trust member on the board and the fact that the community trust is hopefully going to continue because I really enjoy seeing the pictures on Facebook of the kids in the camps that Gordon mentioned occurs during the holidays etc.

One thing that I passionately agreed with was something Charlie Christie says, this really needs to be the way forward.  He said it was ludicrous that we finished a match last season with a near FULL TEAM OF LOANEES, he isn't wrong imho and I know many fellow fans will agree with me on that !  He says that it's achievable to run with a squad of 24 which will be a mixture of youth, players under contract and players sourced from the Highland League.  He knows as well as we do that the Highland League market is one we should be targeting rather than the lower leagues of England because there ARE players in the HL that are capable of making the step up!! He did say that it's unrealistic to expect 8 academy players to make the first team but did suggest 4 was achievable. Finally he did say he's got people willing to help out, I presume he means managers that are willing to loan players to us so that we have a good number of squad players.

It seems to me that Scott Young, Charlie Christie and Alan Savage are passionate about getting us back to what we were before clown became CEO and that's a community club that can have success on the park, he did also say that a year in the very bottom league might not be a bad thing as it could allow us to climb back up the leagues again.  

I posted on Facebook last night that I was totally against administration but after watching the coverage of the meeting, I have now performed a U-turn.

[Satan]

6 hours ago, bishbashbosh said:

 

We have tried it in recent years but players made more money working a normal day job and playing football part time. (Bavidge, megginson wouldn’t sign making more £££ working and playing part time)
If we do go part time would players want to work 8-5 then travel 2 nights a week to Inverness for training ( if they train where they are does that become the kelty model) then away every Saturday,  every week.?

We had quite a few Aberdeenshire / Moray based part timers who trained with their local clubs back in our first 4 or 5 years. Possibly some Perth based players too.

Edited October 9 by Satan

[bishbashbosh]

2 hours ago, Satan said:

We had quite a few Aberdeenshire / Moray based part timers who trained with their local clubs back in our first 4 or 5 years. Possibly some Perth based players too.

Yes and at the time good players they were too. Mike Teasdale galloping up the right side.

But why would players from these areas now want the hassle of driving past Cove, Peterhead or Elgin when they can train and play locally for a team in the same league as us. Maybe even on more money.

Just a thought.

[bdu98196]

Best thing to come out of administration if the clearing out of the club from overpaid, under performing individuals. There's board members, management/coaching staff and players that need jettisoned with the appropriate tarnishing to their reputations. Thankfully admin allows us to do this without having to pay off full contract values etc.

Time to rebuild with better process controls and individuals offering value rather than being there for the kudos and personal gains.

[big cherly]

58 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

Best thing to come out of administration if the clearing out of the club from overpaid, under performing individuals. There's board members, management/coaching staff and players that need jettisoned with the appropriate tarnishing to their reputations. Thankfully admin allows us to do this without having to pay off full contract values etc.

Time to rebuild with better process controls and individuals offering value rather than being there for the kudos and personal gains.

This includes looking at the youth coaches.

Edited October 10 by big cherly

[+Tree]

45 minutes ago, big cherly said:

This includes looking at the youth coaches.

I'm assuming that there was a SPA associated with the share transaction and this may outline additional financial considerations that may be granted in favour of the club if key milestones are achieved (e.g. Planning Appeal successful). These may be enforceable and viewed as potential income (though nor secured income)

[Yngwie]

4 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

 Thankfully admin allows us to do this without having to pay off full contract values etc.

My understanding is that a club in administration has to pay off all ‘football creditors’ before it can come out of administration. I think this includes the contractual entitlement of players, coaches and managers, as well as amounts owed to other clubs. I’m sure someone can clarify.

[IBM]

23 minutes ago, Yngwie said:

My understanding is that a club in administration has to pay off all ‘football creditors’ before it can come out of administration. I think this includes the contractual entitlement of players, coaches and managers, as well as amounts owed to other clubs. I’m sure someone can clarify.

Yes I have heard that as well but not sure where it is documented. 

[RiG]

1 hour ago, Yngwie said:

My understanding is that a club in administration has to pay off all ‘football creditors’ before it can come out of administration. I think this includes the contractual entitlement of players, coaches and managers, as well as amounts owed to other clubs. I’m sure someone can clarify.

When Hearts went into administration in 2013 they didn't come out of it until the following summer and, IIRC, had a transfer embargo placed on them as well.

[+The Fly]

On 10/10/2024 at 1:44 PM, Yngwie said:

My understanding is that a club in administration has to pay off all ‘football creditors’ before it can come out of administration.

It's not part of the primary legislation that governs insolvency (Insolvency Act 1986) or the secondary legislation from 2016 (England) or 2018 (Scotland), but something that the football governing bodies insist upon to allow a club to continue after the Insolvency process. As such it's rather controversial and frequently criticised - I don't think there's any other sector with an equivalent provision.

[STFU]

If I'm understanding it right by making satisfying football debts a condition of retaining league membership the administrator then has to prioritise it because a club without league membership is worthless. League membership is treated by the administrator as an asset with conditions attached.

Also as I understand it the remainder of player/manager/coach contracts are not a debt and it's only any outstanding wages that fall into that category. Based on the information we have that is all up to date with the possible exception of Ferguson as we don't know if he's deferring wages. If he is then that's a debt that will need paid.

[dougiedanger]

On 10/10/2024 at 8:56 AM, bdu98196 said:

Best thing to come out of administration if the clearing out of the club from overpaid, under performing individuals. There's board members, management/coaching staff and players that need jettisoned with the appropriate tarnishing to their reputations. Thankfully admin allows us to do this without having to pay off full contract values etc.

Time to rebuild with better process controls and individuals offering value rather than being there for the kudos and personal gains.

Am guessing you wouldn't be seeing administration as such a great thing if your job was on the line.

[+MrCaleyjag]

On 10/11/2024 at 10:53 PM, dougiedanger said:

Am guessing you wouldn't be seeing administration as such a great thing if your job was on the line.

Sadly, the first employees to get let go are the hard workers behind the scenes who run the football club from day to day. The ones that everyone forgets about that need their jobs the most.

Now I'm not saying that players, managers and coaches don't need their jobs, of course they do, but they have agents who can help them find further employment. They are almost always on the higher end of the payscale at the club and are somewhat protected by league rules and the Scottish PFA so are harder to oust.

It must be an administrators nightmare knowing there's obvious outlays to reduce costs but the only way they can be freed is by moving them on or coming to a mutual agreement. Players and managers won't leave unless they have other employment elsewhere.

Not as easy as making the receptionist redundant for instance.

I suppose the biggest issue for a club our size is, where do those obvious cost cuttings come from as I can't imagine we have an abundance of staff behind the scenes.

I hardly see DF as the type of person who'll step up and take strips home to wash or hoover the reception carpet when there's nearly no staff left and jobs to do.

[The Mantis]

5 minutes ago, MrCaleyjag said:

I hardly see DF as the type of person who'll step up and take strips home to wash or hoover the reception carpet when there's nearly no staff left and jobs to do.

Especially if it's a 3G carpet.

[Satan]

2 hours ago, MrCaleyjag said:

 

I suppose the biggest issue for a club our size is, where do those obvious cost cuttings come from as I can't imagine we have an abundance of staff behind the scenes.

We do have quite a lot of staff on the books,  for a league 1 / ex championship club.

[CaleyCiuin]

30 minutes ago, Satan said:

We do have quite a lot of staff on the books,  for a league 1 / ex championship club.

How many are there?