Whats this crap?

[chris123]

West Stand

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[SMEE]

I get a feeling it is so they can gauge how many people are going to be using the "stand" so they can adjust their stewarding etc appropriatley

[Yngwie]

The key phrase is "This follows issues that arose at the game v Arbroath"

[caley100]

That will be the end of the west stand methinks!

I will for sure not be changing my season ticket for the open side, i can see an exodus of fans running for cover when the cold winter storms show up.

Part of the enjoyment of that area was being able just to transfer over at half time or when it suited, not having the thing covered is a serious drawback.

[beachcomber]

The West stand singing section was a cracking idea, which, with hindsight, and set against the regulatory framework and litigous environment, was probably always doomed to failure. Probably not helped by a bit of belligerent over enthusiasm on the part of both the occupants and stewards.:009:

[maimie]

That will be the end of the west stand methinks!

I will for sure not be changing my season ticket for the open side, i can see an exodus of fans running for cover when the cold winter storms show up.

Part of the enjoyment of that area was being able just to transfer over at half time or when it suited, not having the thing covered is a serious drawback.

i think you can still change it on a game by game basis but if it rains during the game..... 

[Scotty]

The West stand singing section was a cracking idea, which, with hindsight, and set against the regulatory framework and litigous environment, was probably always doomed to failure. Probably not helped by a bit of belligerent over enthusiasm on the part of both the occupants and stewards.:009:

yup, think that about covers it.

[Guest TinCanFan]

Well Done Stewards!!! You've mucked up again.  :clapping03:

[Scotty]

Well Done Stewards!!! You've mucked up again.  :clapping03:

no. the stewards didnt muck it up, there was significant fan involvement in this as discussed (and admitted) in a previous thread.

[Guest TinCanFan]

If the stewards hadn't been so heavy handed and been adult enough to be a bit more lenient instead of acting like riot police then this would not be happening.  I'm now beginning to swing to the view that the crowd would be safer if there were no stewards at all.

[Scotty]

If the stewards hadn't been so heavy handed and been adult enough to be a bit more lenient instead of acting like riot police then this would not be happening.  I'm now beginning to swing to the view that the crowd would be safer if there were no stewards at all.

As was posted in the other thread (in the days following that game).........

The singin Section was roughly half full of fans, most of whom stood for most of the game. A stewerd appeared approximatly 65 minutes into the game and stood at the front of the sand, I thought he was telling people to sit down. I may have been wrong, A section of the stand did chant derogatory chants at the stewerd, the police came and ejected somsone, a group of the fans left in protest.  I may be wrong here but the same stewerd was exchanging banter with some people in the satnd, encouraging us to sing just before the end of the game.

This is my account of last nights events, I may be wrong and please correct me if I am.

Sounds pretty similar to what I have been told by someone else who is well aware of the events. Basically, fans were spotted on the wall and a steward was sent to ask them to get off because it was a safety hazard. At the same time, the steward was told to ask fans who were standing to sit down as that is the rules. (as you say, it was not enforced with a rod of iron throughout the rest of the game so it wasnt really confrontational).

As you posted, the steward was then subjected to chanting that included loads of swearing and a senior police officer then came over. It was the policeman who decided that it had gone far enough and had the person arrested for "persistent and sustained foul and abusive language" which is covered as breach of the peace. The club have no control over the police who make their own decisions to arrest (or not).

There's a couple of posts in the thread that suggest fans should be able to do whatever the **** they like in the singing section and that simply isnt true. There is an acceptable level of behaviour and once that is crossed there is a price to pay. With the publication of that article, the price has now been confirmed !!!

According to the rules, standing is not allowed. end of story. If the club choose to let that slide on occasion then so be it, but if a steward comes along and asks or even tells you to sit down and you do not, then you are inviting trouble. If you add taunting and verbal abuse to the mix then there is only ever going to be one outcome and the outcome is not always the fault of the steward.

[CaleyD]

I think the situation highlights (yet again) the poor communication between the club and the fans.

The club seem to be doing a lot of their communicating via the Supporters Trust these days.  That makes it easier for them to distance themselves from the responsibility of getting information out there properly, but if this is to be the way forward then the Supporters Trust need to work on their methods of communication to ensure information is passed on to all fans in a full and proper manner.

When the new West Stand was put in place, some people seemed to believe it was with the intention of giving fans the freedom to stand and sit as they saw fit and I don't think it was made clear enough that the same rules would applied there as they do in other parts of the stadium.

Perhaps certain people will realise now how important it was to have cleared the air properly following events at the Deunfermline game last season.  If the club had not been allowed to sweep it all under the carpet and bulldoze it all with promises of this new west stand then perhaps we wouldn't be faced with the current situation.  NOTHING has been done to rectify that situation and improve the relationship between fans and stewards and until it's sorted properly then these situations will continue to crop up in all parts of the ground.

I'm not defending the actions of the fans at the Arbroath game who stepped over the line and if only half of what I have been told is true then they deserve whatever punishment the club hands out to them when they meet with them this week.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

This is, in lay terms, utter crap - it is another total feck up by the Board and it is their pathetic way of getting out of it - The tone will be - we gave you an opportunity and you didnt take it.  :008:

The one thing that had to be exercised was increasing tolerance from the stewards. If it had just been left to run then people would have adjusted. More feckin tokenism - This running of this club is going to the feckin dogs.

[Proctor]

In all honesty that statement made by the club seemed to be talking down to the fans, a complete no no! this club would be nothing without its fans. The events of the Arbroath game have also been blown way out of proportion. There was NOT major crowd trouble, although thre was a misunderstanding nbetween stewerds and a small group of fans I fail to see how it should result in the regulations of the singing section being tightened. It is a bad move by a club who I feel right now are in no position to treat their fans like that.

[Guest cozmo]

Will the Hearts fans who stand up on Saturday be treated the same way ?  Or are the double standards going to apply.

I'm not condoning any abuse of the stewards but the youngsters see opposition fans standing and singing getting behind their team,they just want to do the same in an area of the park that was created for them.

[+Gringo]

[quote author=Yngwie link=topic=4829.msg75223#msg75223 date=1190045903]

The key phrase is "This follows issues that arose at the game v Arbroath"

Arbroath??? Pig me, there were hardly any fans at the game....1000+ wasn't it?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

It is just another well known "management" tactic used widely in autocratic businesses. In lay terms it is called deliberately setting up to fail.

Very clever  :008:

[Guest eliza]

As I see it, the problem arises because of our small support.

At our away games, many of their home support stand (ie the Hibs crowd opposite the dugout - mostly all of them standing)(likewise umpteen other clubs) but, because of their actual numbers (thousands) the stewards can do nothing about it, or it seems that way.    Likewise, with our home games, when the away support number a couple of thousand, the same criteria seems to be the norm.  I did notice the Dundee United fans being told to sit down at our 0-3 loss this season, and they did so (after a bit of arguing).

Because our numbers of supporters are so much less, it seems easier for stewards to tell fans to sit down and to pick out certain folk - so the answer is GET YOUR PALS TO COME TO THE GAMES TOO, make big numbers and then, who knows, you might be able to stand for a couple of minutes and not just for one minute, especially after we start rattling in the goals.

[RiG]

If the stewards hadn't been so heavy handed and been adult enough to be a bit more lenient instead of acting like riot police then this would not be happening.  I'm now beginning to swing to the view that the crowd would be safer if there were no stewards at all.

Chanting abuse at the steward really helped matters then didn't it?

The steward came over to tell a boy who was sitting on the back wall to get off as it was a health and safety hazard.  However, before he did this he stood at the front of the section while the majority were doing what you do to a keeper before he takes a goal kick (really can't think of a way to describe it!).  This obviously made an issue out of something that would not have happened had he just came over to tell the boy to get off the wall.  The stand then burst into a chorus of "If you hate the f***ing stewards clap your hands". 

  I was standing next to the boy who was first to be thrown out while singing this and the only reason i can imagine he was ejected was because he was looking and possibly pointing at the steward while singing this.  Either way surely the majority of the stand should have been ejected for this or the police could have just talked to the boy and gave him a warning. 

    The main thing is though, this would all have been avoided if the steward had immediately told a young lad to stop sitting on the back wall instead of standing at the front and aggravating a situation which should not have happened in the first place.

This seemed to be the best description of what happened that night.

[Guest WynessLegend]

Whilst it would be nice to have a traditional 4-sided stadium with a decent West Stand I'm afraid the "singing stand" does not work.

In the absence of a roof the singing gets lost in the wind and can scarcely be heard.

A group of youngsters singing in the North Stand can and has, at times, encouraged most of the stand to join in - creating a good atmosphere.

I fear that this impact could be lost.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Very good point and where was the original request for the Singing Section to be housed ?  :024:

And Eliza - the same could be said about sections of the home support at Fir Park and Love Street. The stewards tolerated it. At ICT the stewards appear to go out of their way to provoke a response. There should be a half way compromise.

[Guest ictdave]

My mate who asked a steward 5 mins from end of the arbroth game why everyone got thrown out has just been given a 4 game ban from all home games and it would have been a year if he had not sold programmes because his boss put in a good word for him thats a joke.  I dont know wot he said to the stewards but he swears all he said was "why is everyone getting thrown out"  not alot of harm in that is there?  Mike Smith is a to55er who shouldnt be at ICT wot has he done for this club?

Mike Smith and Stewards :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33:

[Kingsmills]

Shame, a good idea spoiled by the behaviour of a few. I suspect that the temporar stand will soon only be used to provede a bit of extra capacity for matches against the Old Firm.

[Joonya]

I remember before the start of HM5 there was a steward doing sod all, swinging his legs from side to side for at least 5 minutes and didnt once look up at the stand OR at the game... I belive someone has a video of this also, and just goes to show how compitent some of the stewards are at ICT.

I confess, i stood throughout the ENTIRE match V Arbroath, along with 2 of my friends. We did no harm, carried on singing and even when the play was dull we sang to the seagulls!!! thats what football is about. Creating and enjoying an atmosphere with fellow fans to get behind your team win, loose or draw... WE ARE NOT HOOLIGANS!!!!

[skifreak]

Just to show how absurd football stadium rules and stewarding have become. I was watching the Tennis at Wimbledon this lunchtime and to be quite honest not many of the 11,500 people in the All England Clubs Number 1 Court would have got to see much tennis with SPL stadium rules and ICT stewarding. They'd all have been kicked out!!

Flags, horns, standing, chanting, singing, various drums and snare drums, loud hailers, air horns, ratchets, .... pints in hand...  and people thing the All England Club is stuck up! 

SPL and the Police across Scotland need to get a grip. Why did the club agree to this behaviour rules, why not stand up against the fun police?