INS AND OUTS ?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

For once I am finding some of the criticism a bit baffling. Have I got this right ? Please feel free to correct me or challenge me please as I try to get our squad situation in to perspective.

OUT - Grant Munro (Baffling) - Golly (no surprise, over the hill for SPL now and not even a squad player) - Royster (potentially a squad player but has to make way) - Duncan (again a squad player but wants regular football) - Johnson (no loss) - Innes (never rated him, another over the hill - Hogg (slightly baffled by that one but heard that he also wanted to go) - Obdhiambo (nuff said !!) - Bloominghitte (far too injury prone and woosy) - Sanchez (SFL player in my book and never really fitted in)

IN / NEW CONTRACT - Sutherland (much better prospect than Rory IMHO - could really improve over next 2 seasons) - Rosscoe (in for the centre half position, the experience - would have kept hogg otherwise, needs pace alongside him) - Morrison (improving and a good squad player) - Tansey (could prove to be best buy since Rooney) - Tade (never wholly impressed me but pace and scores goals) - Aldred (yet to see but appears to have won some over already) - Meekings (sounds like a good squad player) - Shinnie (certainly showed potential but never got a breakthrough - could be another very good buy) - Stevenson ( squad player who needs building up.

Plus we could still get Alex Cooper and Gilbert would be an asset. Coxy and wee Shinnie still to come back from injury - Hayes hopefully back to his best and the prospect of Doran on loan again.

After all that I feel that - if / when we add another central defender then whats the feckin problem ? And lets finish off with a wee bit of controversy - looks to me that we have swapped a lot of older, nearing the twilights of their career journeymen for a bunch of younger, hungry to impress potential SPL players but many with "experience" at clubs arguably at a higher level than us !!

When ya play wee team in pre season ya are on a hiding to nothing - this week will be interesting but I doubt that we will see the real ICT until Muversmell.

[Libero]

Jamie Stevenson is only on trial, not signed

Alex Cooper has left the club after what appears to have been a very short trial

Gilbert looks highly unlikely to sign given that he was supposedly injured and couldnt play on trial for us but can manage to play for MK Dons on trial

We have no right backs at the club which is very worrying (Proctor should only be used there in emergencies IMO), we only have Tokely as an experienced centre half and at the moment our defence is a really weak

Tade for me is not a natural goal scorer, he will manage a few but i really dont see him as being a regular goal threat, i hope he proves me wrong but 35 goals in 154 appeareances in Scotlands lower leagues does not fill me with confidence

We currently have 17 signed first team players which IMO is grossly understrength

Just been announced on the official site that Tade and Cox will both miss our game against Motherwell so at the moment our striking options are Foran and Sutherland and our defensive midfield options are Gavin Morrison

Its not quite hit the panic button yet but i feel there is still a lot to of work be done

[kencar]

I'm with Libero. We really need a right back, striker & another centre back

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

:rotflmao: Feel free to correct me or challenge me - did I say !!

Thank you.

From another angle - which of the released players, apart from Munro, would YOU have retained ?

I certainly feel that the squad needs strengthening but I feel that the Ins and Outs - successful conclusions or not - have made sense - and that there is still a lot of business to be done.

[Georgeios]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Rossco a RB... and seen as we still havnt seen all the names TB has we dont know whats still to come in, IHE I hear what your saying, Green dot.,

[Libero]

With the business completed so far i can honestly say that there are only two of the ten released that i feel we should have retained, Munro and Duncan. The rest are replaceable IMO but i think we will miss Grant and Russell considerably

I think the way Butcher is looking to youth in our team is brave and exciting and i certainly hope its a move that pays off. Will certainly give the youngsters their chance to shine

[Libero]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Rossco a RB... and seen as we still havnt seen all the names TB has we dont know whats still to come in, IHE I hear what your saying, Green dot.,

TB used him as a centre half for all of last season so i cant see him reverting back to RB any time soon. Can see Tokely becoming a Davie Weir like player, centre half stalwart for a good few years to come

[Bombabim]

caught in two places with this.

some of the signings look promising (a.shinnie and tansey have potential, less sure of tade) and the young guns who came through last year should be even better this year. morrison will kick on too. and the likes of polworth and greig look like they could come into the young guns category this year or next. so that is all positive. plus roscoe is still here. and hayes. and esson. and terry. and mo.

BUT

We have lost a lot in defence, if Munro was still here we'd be feeling a little better (only a little mind) but the centre halfs brought in to replace him are unproven (anywhere, not just in the SPL) and this causes a certain amount of discomfort. left back is sorted although both g.shinnie and gillet have injury problems hanging around i fear. right back, roscoe as a last resort, proctor was a bombscare there last year and his injury actually saved us for a bit i think, he can do a job elsewhere. and duff is showing no signs of coming back.

and i'd be happier with another striker with goals

so on balance i'm about an even. some goods and some worries. the season is still 10 days away and the transfer window doesn't shut for 18 days so there is time. the early start to the SPL i doubt is helping as english players try to get clubs nearer home but thats life.

don't feel the need to get on terry's back he is the manager and there will be a team out to face motherwell next week. i'll reserve judgement too (much) later in the season.

bring it on

[Kirishima]

Basically, if a young squad can do reasonably well this year, and prove themselves, then maybe the 2/3 year contracts will come out, the team will be kept the same, it will improve, top six, and one of the young players might be snaffled by a Prem team for sizeable cash.

Terry has probably had this in mind for a couple of years now, and he did it at Motherwell with kids.

[Proctor]

I have to say I am starting to get a little uneasy about this season. Its 11 days until we start again and I feel that with injuries we could be looking at a very weak squad. Heres hoping theres a few trialists on the English tour.

[AJS]

A right back, a center back, a left winger and another striker - these are must haves. Wouldnt mind a 3rd choice keeper but not a necessity.

And i wouldnt mind Duff making his mind up at some point before next pre season.

[Alex MacLeod]

so on balance i'm about an even. some goods and some worries. the season is still 10 days away and the transfer window doesn't shut for 18 days so there is time. the early start to the SPL i doubt is helping as english players try to get clubs nearer home but thats life.

Plus 30........i'm sure its open till end august.

[bdu98196]

Squad is moving in the right direction, the age and quality of some of the players meant that it would need surgery sooner or later and TB is a man with the guts to take that on. Apart from GM there is no real loss and hopefully the younger and hungrier players can play a part. We do look under strength though and need a few more numbers, certainly a good experience CB & RB plus what everyone wants - a goalscorer. Sadly with Rooney away I dont feel Tade is adequate to lead the line - although who and where we can find one is the issue.

[buckett]

Don't have a problem with the quality of the ins (and generally the outs).

My problem is the lack of time the majority of the squad will have trained together by the start of the season. At the start of last season we had a stable, balanced team - they enjoyed working together and the crack among the squad was great. This time around there'll be a lot of strangers trying to get to know each other.

I expect a slow start this season.

[ICTPaisley]

Players OUT: Johnson, - Duff, Innes, Hogg, Munro, Golabek - Odhiambo, Mcbain, Duncan, Blumenstein, Doran, Sanchez, - Rooney

Players IN: Tom Aldred, Josh Meekings, - Andrew Shinnie, Greg Tansey - Gregory Tade

So thats 13 players out and only 5 in. Surely we have a serious amount of space left to will in terms of wages.

In defence i would say i was more comfortable with Hogg and Munro than i am with Adred and Meekings, We have also lost Innes, Duff and Golabek, Will we be bringing in another 2 defenders? So far i think the defence has been weakened.

Midfield we have brought in Shinnie and Tansey, Are they better than Doran and Duncan? Again i am not so confident on that. We have also lost another 4 midfielders, will another 2 or 3 be brought in? So far i think the midfield is weak.

Attack - We have lost Rooney and brought in Tade, That isn't a good sign at all unless we can bring in someone else.

So far i put us up as one of the favourites for relegation UNLESS we can bring in a few quality faces. I really do fear for the season ahead and i'm still sure Butcher will regret releasing Munro and Duncan.

[AJS]

Wouldnt make the comparison of Shinnie and Doran. Doran was only on loan and he was a winger, Shinnie is a center mid. And Tade wont be the only signing up front, Tel says they are looking hard for a quality signing.

I'am concerned but i think Tel is as well and knows we are still a long way from having a full squad.

[PaderbornCaley]

At right back we have Tokely "Don't you wish yer right back was Ross Tokely...Dont Cha!" For centre back we have Aldred who I really rate and although we only have The Tank for 6 months, from what I have seen of him so far, he looks really good and solid. Left back, we have Gillet, who I think had some decent performance towards the end of last season. Some very good players in there, but that's only 3! We need more bodies. Not too sure about Meekings yet. Of course we have Proctor, who I think does an excellent job at left back in the changing room!

Edited July 12, 2011 by CapitalCaley

[ICTPaisley]

Wouldnt make the comparison of Shinnie and Doran. Doran was only on loan and he was a winger, Shinnie is a center mid. And Tade wont be the only signing up front, Tel says they are looking hard for a quality signing.

I'am concerned but i think Tel is as well and knows we are still a long way from having a full squad.

Doran was very much apart of our team last season so he has to be included, same way Aldred is even though he'll be away in January. I'm not comparing both players for positions, i just mean I'd rather have Doran in my team than Shinnie. This IMO shows our team was better last season. There is still alot of time left to bring in other players but surely all the good ones are already being snapped up.

[Georgeios]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Rossco a RB... and seen as we still havnt seen all the names TB has we dont know whats still to come in, IHE I hear what your saying, Green dot.,

TB used him as a centre half for all of last season so i cant see him reverting back to RB any time soon. Can see Tokely becoming a Davie Weir like player, centre half stalwart for a good few years to come

I am just pointing out your, we have no RB at the club...

[PaderbornCaley]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Rossco a RB... and seen as we still havnt seen all the names TB has we dont know whats still to come in, IHE I hear what your saying, Green dot.,

TB used him as a centre half for all of last season so i cant see him reverting back to RB any time soon. Can see Tokely becoming a Davie Weir like player, centre half stalwart for a good few years to come

I am just pointing out your, we have no RB at the club...

Your right, Tokely isn't a right back, but he can play there and has played many times there and done a good job. He played right back a few times last season.

[Alex MacLeod]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Rossco a RB... and seen as we still havnt seen all the names TB has we dont know whats still to come in, IHE I hear what your saying, Green dot.,

TB used him as a centre half for all of last season so i cant see him reverting back to RB any time soon. Can see Tokely becoming a Davie Weir like player, centre half stalwart for a good few years to come

I am just pointing out your, we have no RB at the club...

Your right, Tokely isn't a right back, but he can play there and has played many times there and done a good job. He played right back a few times last season.

Tokely done a damn good job at right back when we had the original 'machine'. That said, looking at the current defence we're struggling. Left is covered with Gillet and Graeme Shinnie. There's Tokely and Aldred for centre and Proctor at right. Cox has covered RB but never impressed me in that position. We have to find some big defenders soon.

[dougal]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Rossco a RB... and seen as we still havnt seen all the names TB has we dont know whats still to come in, IHE I hear what your saying, Green dot.,

IMO I doubt Ross will play right back this season as he doesn't have the legs anymore

With Grants departure the pressure on Ross in the middle of defence is going to be a huge and I have an awful feeling about the whole situation

You only have to look at the Falkirk game when we got relegated three years ago to see how off the pace the big man was even back then

Every one of us know we desperately need a new centre half so the question I ask is why doesn't Butcher???

dougal

[AJS]

Wouldnt make the comparison of Shinnie and Doran. Doran was only on loan and he was a winger, Shinnie is a center mid. And Tade wont be the only signing up front, Tel says they are looking hard for a quality signing.

I'am concerned but i think Tel is as well and knows we are still a long way from having a full squad.

Doran was very much apart of our team last season so he has to be included, same way Aldred is even though he'll be away in January. I'm not comparing both players for positions, i just mean I'd rather have Doran in my team than Shinnie. This IMO shows our team was better last season. There is still alot of time left to bring in other players but surely all the good ones are already being snapped up.

Im sure if it was possible Tel would have Doran back.

[RossP]

As I sit in the Dumbarton FC social club before their match v St Mirren*, I can't help be a tad jealous of the strengthening process the buddies have gone through: Steven Thompson and Gary Teale starting, Nigel Hasselbank on the bench. I'd have been happy to see any of them in an ICT shirt.

*my girlfriend has been promoted to Radio Clyde, so our Cardross flat is near enough to Dumbarton fc (6min train) for me to call them my 2nd team...

[Council Juice]

Correct me if im wrong but isnt Rossco a RB... and seen as we still havnt seen all the names TB has we dont know whats still to come in, IHE I hear what your saying, Green dot.,

IMO I doubt Ross will play right back this season as he doesn't have the legs anymore

With Grants departure the pressure on Ross in the middle of defence is going to be a huge and I have an awful feeling about the whole situation

You only have to look at the Falkirk game when we got relegated three years ago to see how off the pace the big man was even back then

Every one of us know we desperately need a new centre half so the question I ask is why doesn't Butcher???

dougal

What?! Has he been injured and lost his legs? Ross Tokely could fit in at RB quite easily. He was never comfortable against the wee nippy winger and he never had exceptional pace. However his physicality and reading of the gamemore than make up for his flaws.

However we do need another fairly experienced defender. Whether that just being 1 who can fit in at both centre half and right back or one of each.

A striker or another winger (ie Doran) would be top of my list too. Getting in Doran would allow Foran to play up with Tade/Sutherland with Hayes wide right. That would cause many team a nightmare. I believe that Sutherland is reaching the point where he can take over from Rooney. He has the ability.

Maybe about time to sign another County player. Did they not have a fairly decent defence last year (despite their lowly league position, I believe it was their lack of goals that was the issue- correct me if Im wrong)