Whats going on with the under 19s

[bauhaus]

They have taken a bit of a doing in the last couple of games. not scoring and conceding easily with just two draws so far

[caleyboy]

They have taken a bit of a doing in the last couple of games. not scoring and conceding easily with just two draws so far

Lack of quality maybe!

[+DoofersDad]

I've also noticed we are not doing very well. Over the years one of the strengths of this club is how it has developed youngsters and we have had some success in bringing youngsters through into the first team. If the under 19s appear to be not just not doing too well, but to be actually completely outclassed, then that must raise some questions about the current youth set up. I always understood our youth set up to be very good. Perhaps there is just a poor peer group locally in that age group - these things do tend to vary - but I would be interested to hear some comment from someone involved with the juniors. Another point is that it will be pretty disheartening for the youngsters to be getting gubbed week after week.

[jaggy]

Maybe they are just not as good as the teams they are playing.

[lukemackay]

the players i seen in pre season espesially andy greig were very impressive and i thought at the time i saw him he would be a big part of the under 19s team and perhaps picking up a league debut but he picked up a nasty shoulder injury perhaps that played a part that and all the main men from the 19s are now in the first team i.e. nick ross, graeme shinnie, gavin morrison, and shane sutherland all a good bunch of players to come through.

in my experience playing at u17 level a team tends to have a bad season a sort of transitional period where you have lots of younger players playing and after that the next season you see an upturn in the level of performance and sucess. perhaps thats what the u19s are going through

[Oddquine]

I should think you are correct in your second paragraph, lukemackay.

There is not a thing wrong with the under-19s.......they are doing the best they can with what they have. How do you define outclassed anyway? Would outclassed be playing utter p1sh, as the first team has done more than once? Or would it be giving 100% and being unlucky in front of goal, as the first team has on more than one occasion as well.....or maybe having a referee who wouldn't know the rules of the game if they bit him on the bahookey? How would anyone from ICT not at the games know the under-19s had been outclassed anyway........given that the only place you get more than a straight scoreline in a fixture table is on the under-19 pages of just about every other SPL team...but not on the non-existent under-19 (or any other youth squads) pages on this one, I note........and the other team's reports don't even usually give the ICT team line-up, far less acknowledge that there was any other team on the pitch but theirs.

If we are going to do logical and realistic, as opposed to the small nucleus of ICT support who do wishful thinking and fantasy to an embarrassing degree, we will accept that a relatively small team, in SPL terms, has a catchment area for a youth set up much smaller in population of an appropriate age, though a lot larger in area than most, if not all the other SPL Teams. But the number of acres in a catchment area does not negate the fact that if that acre is occupied only by sheep, or windmills, or peat bogs, or forests etc,.....there are no prospective footballers to be pulled into an ICT youth system.

The Highlands, including Inverness and Nairn, at the 2001 census, had 4% of the population of Scotland........which means we have much the same population as Aberdeen City, without the rural periphery, have half the population of the city of Edinburgh and a sixth of the population of Glasgow.....and that does not include all the Central Belt between and around both.

Add to that, the economic restraints under which ICT has to operate, which means that the option to cross the world, as the biggest SPL clubs can, and poach those that they perceive as the best from anywhere in the world at lesser transfer cost than if they were already full time first team professionals does not exist..so the catchment area for youth players for some SPL teams expands exponentially...but not for ICT. The same economic restraints will also limit the intake to the ICT youth system from elsewhere in Scotland, because, if you sign a youngster, there is an obligation to maintain that individual away from home...which could be anywhere from Orkney/Shetland down and, in the current, or even the past economic climate, the cost of digs does/did not come cheap.......so the obvious option is to go for prospects who live fairly locally, and whose parents are prepared to ferry them everywhere they are needed at no cost to ICT.

We had no under-19 squad in the relegation year....so much of what we had then were let go to save money. We held on to what was perceived as the best of the under-19s, as in Ross, G Shinnie, Morrison and Sutherland...so in the first year back in the SPL, nine under-17s were pulled into it...good and fairly successful under-17s when paying at their own level...and augmented (as far as I'm aware, because reporting on, or even mentioning, anything but the first team on any ICT official site, either this one or the old version, appears to be something which is not perceived to interest the punter who doesn't think much beyond the next SPL game, so accurate information is at the level of piles of hobby horses' droppings) by the new signings eligible age-wise to participate. Ergo we played the under-19 games in 2010/1011 with a nucleus of a squad which had never faced a team anything up to four years older and a lot more physically developed.

And this season, six of that squad were let go, rightly or wrongly, and another eight of the then current under 17 squad were brought in.......so this season was always liable to be a repeat of the previous one. (I can't speak for the success of the under-17 squad from which the players were taken, because it is a long time now since the Courier gave reports on ICT youth teams....something they regularly did in the years up to the beginning of 2010.......they seem to be just as disinclined as this website/forum is to consider youth teams as a part of ICT's future.)

So not a lot different, with respect to the under-19s imo, as to what Terry has been doing with the first team....cutting his coat according to his cloth, and doing the best he can with what is available, with the view of benefiting ICT. In the case of the under-19s, that would be in spotting and encouraging players who are capable of becoming first team players in the future. The under-19 league is no less a development one than any from the under 11 ones, up...even if the fact that the Clydesdale Bank sponsors it makes appear as something more important in the scheme of competition and the "my team are better than your team" stakes. At no time have either Terry or Charlie Christie ever even suggested that any more than a few of those moving up to the under-19s are capable of reaching the highest levels, natural ability, attitude and freedom from injury permitting..and I should think the same applies to the 130 or so young people within the whole youth system. A youth system is only as good as the players available for it to train......and a youth system in the Highlands will, with the best will in the world, never have as many players coming through who are capable of playing at the highest levels as the same system in any big city.

Next season might see an improvement......unless the powers that be decide to do the same again and replace half or more of the squad, rather than just moving out those who will be over-age by next season and no longer eligible to play.......in which case, it will be same old, same old.

[+DoofersDad]

I seem to have raised your hackles somewhat Oddquine but don't have a go at those who are asking perfectly reasonable questions and expressing concern at the current position of the under 19 squad. We are on the same side here and want youngsters associated with the club to have the opportunity to develop and do well. What I mean by being outclassed is that as far as I am aware they are 9 points adrift at the bottom of the SPL U-19 league with 2 points from 14 games with a goal difference of minus 37. This is not good. It can't all be attributed to poor refereeing decisions and bad luck and it must be dis-spiriting for the youngsters. It is also significantly worse than in previous seasons.

I agree that it is unfortunate that the club does not give more coverage to the youth teams but there is presumably absolutely nothing to stop anyone associated with the youth set up putting the occasional post on here to keep people informed. Those giving of their time may feel they get no support but it is difficult for people to give support if they don't know what is going on.

As for the reasons for the disappointing league position, Luke and yourself have given a number of explanations, some of which are more compelling than others but which on balance make it reasonable to assume that this year was never going to be a good year but that next year should be better. It is important for the club that the youngsters are given every opportunity to develop so please excuse some of us for actually taking an interest in what's going on.

[tm4tj]

"because it is a long time now since the Courier gave reports on ICT youth teams....something they regularly did in the years up to the beginning of 2010.......they seem to be just as disinclined as this website/forum is to consider youth teams as a part of ICT's future.)"

Oddquine, you seem to have plenty to say about the u19/youths etc. How about you write an article or two on their progress for everyone to see instead of condemning this site (unofficial) for having no information. You can do it via the blogging system on here without making it more formal for the front page if you wish.

That's some chip you are carrying around, get well soon.

[tm4tj]

ps, just to add, if anyone has information they would like published as an article, please inform me/admin about the article and we will publish on main page as we deem appropriate. Or as I said above, please use the blogger forums to release your thoughts to the masses.

[CaleyD]

Cutting the cloth and/or making best use of resources available is not restricted to playing squads, but also needs to be considered and taken account of when it comes to all areas of operating within the club and I would far rather coaches etc were spending time developing the various teams than writing match reports.

A similar situation arose in regards to reporting on first team games and a few people stepped up to the plate as fans/volunteers and we've managed to resurrect the previews/reports and also added to previous offerings by teaming up with MFR to use their audio interviews and have a cameraman who videos every game and provides footage which can be used for both highlights and as a training tool....and let's not forget the photographer who provides photos/galleries which are second to none.

The exact same opportunity exists for anyone who wishes to volunteer to cover U19 matches by way of previews/reports/articles/results/video/photos etc for the official website. If it is something you can help with then please get in touch with me and I will happily assist in making it happen.

For those who think that a setup that relies on fans in the above manner is strange or unusual, it's not. It's been working that way for years and I would confidently say that outside the OF (and even there to some extent) the vast majority of the media work done for official sites is done by fans/volunteers

The official website has come on leaps and bounds this season and there's plans to keep on growing it and increase the amount of content. We've been working with the Community Dept to increase their presence on there so people are aware of all the great work they do and we will do the same with the other areas of the club in due course, but we do need more volunteers to assist with producing the content to go on there.

The opportunity exists, people just have to come forward and help make it happen.

[Oddquine]

I seem to have raised your hackles somewhat Oddquine but don't have a go at those who are asking perfectly reasonable questions and expressing concern at the current position of the under 19 squad. We are on the same side here and want youngsters associated with the club to have the opportunity to develop and do well. What I mean by being outclassed is that as far as I am aware they are 9 points adrift at the bottom of the SPL U-19 league with 2 points from 14 games with a goal difference of minus 37. This is not good. It can't all be attributed to poor refereeing decisions and bad luck and it must be dis-spiriting for the youngsters. It is also significantly worse than in previous seasons.

I agree that it is unfortunate that the club does not give more coverage to the youth teams but there is presumably absolutely nothing to stop anyone associated with the youth set up putting the occasional post on here to keep people informed. Those giving of their time may feel they get no support but it is difficult for people to give support if they don't know what is going on.

As for the reasons for the disappointing league position, Luke and yourself have given a number of explanations, some of which are more compelling than others but which on balance make it reasonable to assume that this year was never going to be a good year but that next year should be better. It is important for the club that the youngsters are given every opportunity to develop so please excuse some of us for actually taking an interest in what's going on.

I take everybody's points.

If I lived in that neck of the woods, and could attend youth games (or first team ones) with any kind of regularity, I'd be happy to do reports etc....but, as it is, I rely on the internet for my football fixes...and one of my fixes are the youth teams I have followed via the Courier reports since the reports started to be published.

The coverage of the first team on this site is superb, no question.....but there is even less regarding the youth sides than there was on the old site.and that wasn't up to much. I kinda liked being able to follow the progress of boys up through the age groups to the under 19s and beyond. I even watch out for those names I recognise, but who are no longer here, if I know where they are playing now.

OK......I know I'm sad......but I am harmless, if opinionated.

Doofer's Dad, it wasn't so much what you said it was more the way you said...what got me was mostly the If the under 19s appear to be not just not doing too well, but to be actually completely outclassed, then that must raise some questions about the current youth set up. I always understood our youth set up to be very good. Perhaps there is just a poor peer group locally in that age group. You could have just said, "Has something gone wrong with the youth set up that we don't know about?"...and I'd not have ranted as much. Sorry!

[+DoofersDad]

Oddquine, people often raise points here which ask for a response which never comes. I guess I phrased it hoping to spark a resonse - and boy did you give one! Good to see Don's positive post on this as well. No offence intended and certainly not to the youngsters who are clearly finding things so tough this year and whose interests we are all concerned for. Great to see your passion - may you never lose it.

[Alex MacLeod]

We do actually have one of the better youth set-ups, run by one of the better groups of youth coaches in the league. It must be very frustrating for our coaches when they have to oversea the release of players because we simply cant afford to keep them all. We cant pay a full U-19 squad so we try and supplement them with younger players who are mere schoolkids.

DD had a valid question and Oddquine answered as she sees things. DD's points were also very valid as he see's them. CD chips in with more very valid points.

We can all put our tuppenceworth in based on what we know and see and none of us are wrong. I do support the point that if there was more information available regarding how things are with the youth and U-19 setups there would be little need to enter into this type of debate.

The bottom line in all this is that if we want to stay in this league in the current economic climate we need to make sacrifices.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Oddquine

It's perhaps a little unusual for a lady to express such passion for the male youth teams but you certainly did it very well indeed.

All power to your elbow and if you tick off a few mighty males slightly in the process then be grateful and be commended for your spirit.

One of the benefits to me of my interest being pricked is that I visited your website. I was most impressed by the variety of your interests and your curiosity and your apparently endless capacity to explore. You must be a very active girl and I think that you will always try to bring out the best feelings that you can relating to whatever you engross yourself i,. No half-measures with you, eh?

Great to have you on this site--a breath of fresh air and no mistake. And keep after these old fogies on here. They are so "in a rut" from time to time. Just give 'em "laldy" I say. :hahaha:

[CaleyD]

I've spoken briefly with the club about this and they are more than willing to accommodate anyone who wishes to assist with compiling articles and reports etc for the U19's.

If anyone is interested then please PM me or drop me an e.mail to donald at caleythistleonline dot com