3G at TCS?

[+Fraz]

http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/Sport/Football/Hughes-backs-astro-turf-for-Caley-Jags-ground-08012015.htm

 

Wee poll.

 

Can't remember if this has been discussed before (probably) but what do folk think about the possibility of a 3/4G pitch? It would suit out passing style of play. Gaffer seems keen enough, but I can understand Drape's concerns. I wonder what the injury stats for players at clubs with synthetic pitches compares to those with grass? There's a project for you Sneckboy 

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

[Kingsmills]

Only if there was a compelling financial benefit to the club. Otherwise, no, football should be played on grass.

[Yngwie]

Nor should football be played on mud or sand!

 

There's nothing better than a good grass pitch.  But how often do you get a good grass pitch in Scotland, half the time?

[Alex MacLeod]

High quality surface required

 

[Renegade]

Nor should football be played on mud or sand!

 

According to Football Manager, there's clubs in the lower leagues in Spain that play on a sand and clay pitches.  Perhaps even more weirdly though, there's a team in Romania that play on gravel!

[CaleyD]

There's actually a fair bit of difference between Killie's pitch and Hamiltons.

 

The "grass" at Killie is slightly longer and if you were to close your eyes and walk across it then you'd swear you were walking on a natural grass surface.

 

The artificial pitch at Killie is also rated for use by other sports (including rugby), which opens up another market to the stadium if we went that route.

 

Personally, I think an artificial pitch could take ICTFC to another level on so many fronts....

 

Aside from not having the same hassles as exist at the moment with making sure the pitch is kept in order over the winter, you end up with a facility that could be used pretty much 24/7.  This provides a new income stream, not just for use of the pitch, but opens up the potential to develop other facilities at the ground as the footfall increases.  You also have the cost saving that comes from not needing a separate training facility or renting pitches for Youth games etc.

 

Holding community kids training programmes etc at the stadium brings people in and increases the sense of ownership.  As that develops then so does the sense of community.....it could actually prove to be the catalyst for bringing the city and football club closer and that could also help put a few more bums on seats for match days.

 

Even with the best grass pitch in the world, you could never achieve the above.

 

To me, installing a (good) artificial surface is a total no-brainer.

[hislopsoffsideagain]

I wrote this piece earlier in the season for The Terrace on the subject.

 

There are certainly pros and cons.

 

http://terracepodcast.net/scottish-premiership/2014/10/8/the-plastic-pitch-fallacy

[Iain]

Does anyone know if the club are open to such an idea in the future?

[CaleyD]

Does anyone know if the club are open to such an idea in the future?

 

Yes they are, I can't find the article, but it's something the Chairman has said is being given serious consideration.

[Ronaldo]

It's a no brainer for me, passing football without the bobbles 

 

I used to be regularly at Murrayfiield and the 3, or 4g outside pitch would be a dream to play football on. I have suggested this too and got funny looks  

[Libero]

From what I have read it really helps with the style of football we are trying to play. If it adds an additional revenue stream then great; we can do with all the additional income we can get.

 

IMO it makes football and business sense so i was glad to hear the club were looking into it. Really hope that the funds can somehow be secured for it

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Is really becomes a no brainer when you see international rugby matches being played at Rugby Park. They have just put down what they call a 4G pitch at my daughters school - cost £300K (including floodlights). I was speaking to the PE teacher who said that the G is not about the surface but stands for Generation and there are different types of synthetic makes. No doubt we will have 5G and 6G soon. School have bought it cos it is durable and cuts out possible cancellations due to water logging and most bad weathers - and it can be hired out. He also said that they got advice from the Sports Council and there is growing evidence that there is little difference in the stats comparing 4G to grass. again that is a fallacy from AstroTurf. I have had a walk on it and it really can only be un-grass like by touch. No more bald patches and no more dodgy areas.

For where our ground is and aquifer threatened it makes total sense. Look how it cuts up. And perhaps more importantly it means that the team playing on it have to adopt a footballing ethos in the sense of the passing game and should turn the TCS into a fortress.

[AlexJones]

I suggest sand, clay and gravel should be added to the list of options.

[caleyblue29]

having been allowed to play at falkirk one saterday i really enjoyed playing on the 3g pich and think it would bring in some extra income to help the club progress over the next few years .  

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

I thought this was going to be a thread about cellular coverage ?!?!

[bigman]

Need to wait until Tommy is put out to grass !!!!!!!!!!!

[+DoofersDad]

I think that there is an inevitability about this.  As Caley D and others have outlined there are so many advantages that when the technology improves a bit more to iron out some of the remaining issues, this may well become a requirement for top level teams.

 

At the moment there probably are issues around the height of bounce and the speed at which the ball comes of the surface but I don't think these should be seen as major obstacles.  Given the propensity for grass football pitches to cut up, the more consistent surface of an artificial pitch should support greater skill.  It is just a question of the players getting used to the feel of the surface - not difficult given the fact that the bounce and roll of the ball on a grass pitch varies from match to match depending on the firmness of the pitch, the length of the grass and how wet the grass is.  Indeed, currently these things often vary in different areas of the same pitch as a result of drainage and shade issues.

 

A further advantage of an artificial pitch is that it opens the way for indoor pitches which would make the prospect of watching an evening game in January rather more appealing than now.  Whilst a roof over the TCS is not a realistic proposition, the ability to use artificial surfaces for a huge range of sports and the fact that they can be easily covered to accommodate concerts etc, means that new build stadia could increasingly be used in a very much wider social context.  These other activities would provide the income stream necessary to pay for such good quality multiactivity complexes.

 

In my view there will come a time before too long that the idea of playing a top level football match on a grass surface will be as unthinkable as holding a major athletics meet on a cinder track.  The question must be one of when rather than if we get an artificial surface.

 

[+bughtmaster]

Will we be allowed to play our Euro matches on a synthetic pitch ?? or will there be REAL complaints ?

[Sneckboy]

Will we be allowed to play our Euro matches on a synthetic pitch ?? or will there be REAL complaints ?

Yeah! UEFA allow artificial pitches - except for the final. That actually happened a few seasons ago when the Champions League final was played in a stadium in Moscow which had an artificial pitch. It had to be replaced, with a grass pitch for the purpose of one game!  

 

Regarding injury statistics, there have been studies done on this and the results seem to be consistent.

Generally, injuries were more prevalent on the old style AstroTurf, 1G and 2G pitches, than on grass.

But, since the advent of the modern 3G and 4G surfaces, there is no evidence that they cause any more injuries than grass. However, it was noted that there is obviously no data for 'long term' effects on players from always playing on these surfaces.

 

Yet, I'm sure some players find it more physically demanding to play on artificial surfaces and often players nursing ankle, back or knee injuries are often reluctant to play on the perceived harder surface.

 

Interesting times ahead, if the club are indeed looking seriously into this option. I'd be fascinated to hear Dougal's opinion as I remember he was quite 'outspoken' about this earlier this season - hoping Hamilton and Kilmarnock would be relegated!

[Scarlet Pimple]

And if the leagues go over to Summer football  how will  removing the grass and replacing it with this type of pitch  be a good thing?

[gordieict]

And if the leagues go over to Summer football  how will  removing the grass and replacing it with this type of pitch  be a good thing?

 

 

Do you forget what our summers are like over here Scarlet 

[davie]

Caley D and DD are right in their approach to 3/4G surfaces. The potential income aside, you have a pitch which instantly runs straight AND true. Unaffected by weather and useable 24/7 it rapidly becomes a no brainer to play on that type of pitch. As for injuries, Sneckboy has pointed out that new artificial turf surfaces don't burn or abrade in the same way as astroturf did, nor do they cause the same amount of ligament injuries that they did. the new 3/4G surfaces are installed over a shock pad ( a giant rubber shock absorber) designed to supply a certain amount of "give" without being spongy. Best of all worlds really.

[hislopsoffsideagain]

According to ex-Hibs player David Farrell, the idea that an artificial pitch runs "straight and true" is a myth.  

 

(taken from the article I linked to above)

“From a player’s point of view, grass is always preferable”, ex-pro David Farrell told me.  “At first team level it hinders passing football due to the speed of the game. The unnaturally high bounce means that many passes are difficult to control, meaning play continually breaks down. Also the speed of the pitch means many passes being misplaced even if they are only a fraction out.

“Ultimately a form of "percentage" football is played by the home team who are more used to the bounce and feel. Long balls into channels clipped to force teams into playing in their own half as they don’t want to risk losing possession in their own half.”

 

I seem to recall Jackie McNamara having similar objections to the pitch at Rugby Park earlier this season, after Dundee United lost there.

[Scotty]

Womens world Cup here in Canada this year will be played on turf ... and is very controversial, to the extent that it has spawned a lawsuit citing the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

 

Funnily enough, not a single game will be played at the "national stadium" (Toronto FC's BMO Field) ... a natural grass pitch that used to be turf, and may eventually go back to being a hybrid (Desso Grassmaster). This is not because of any problems with the organisers wanting it all to be played on plastic, but because Toronto hosts the PanAM games at the same time so they did not submit a bid to the Canadian Soccer Association to be one of the host cities.

 

There are 6 stadiums being used and all have artificial grass. 3 of the stadiums (Edmonton, Winnipeg and Ottawa) are home to CFL teams (Canadian version of the NFL) and use Field Turf which is pretty much a necessity due to weather and the pounding the field takes. The stadium in Moncton is mainly a university athletic stadium and also uses Field Turf, whilst the 2 fields that normally play host to MLS teams in Vancouver and Montreal will use Polytan Liga Turf and Xtreme Turf respectively

 

I have read quite a few articles (some linked below) but think this is the most balanced from a Canadian perspective:  

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/08/22/why-the-worlds-best-female-soccer-players-should-accept-playing-on-fake-grass-at-the-world-cup/

 

Other articles

http://globalnews.ca/news/1603131/fifa-officials-to-inspect-bc-place-turf-in-light-of-controversy/

http://globalnews.ca/news/1593031/players-file-lawsuit-in-canada-over-artificial-womens-world-cup-turf/

http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentary/article/11593863/julie-foudy-talks-turf-fifa

http://www2.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=461567

https://www.coworker.org/petitions/fifa-the-world-cup-should-be-played-on-natural-grass

http://equalizersoccer.com/tag/2015-turf-war/