Celtic "b" Wanting To Join 3rd Division

[FortressICT]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/s...v_1/7905786.stm

Seeing as the SPL have decided to get rid off the reserve league.

Is this a good idea? or not?

Do you think ICT could enter a "reserve" team into the Highland League maybe?

Edited February 23, 2009 by roscoe23

[TtotheOtotheM]

Nah its not fair, this is a similar thing to the spanish league. If celtic can have a lower league team then so should everyone else. Do celtic have a reserve team? if they dont then ignore what i just said.

[Guest Muir-Jaggie]

say celtic did get a "b" team everytime they have a player out hurt for a few months then celtic first team would just put him in to the celtic "b" team to get back to full fitness and that would def be unfair on all the other clubs (since they would be playing against 3rd division teams).

or would celtic "b" team have there own squad off players, which means they can buy whoever but they cant feature in the celtic first team??

[ict123]

say celtic did get a "b" team everytime they have a player out hurt for a few months then celtic first team would just put him in to the celtic "b" team to get back to full fitness and that would def be unfair on all the other clubs (since they would be playing against 3rd division teams).

or would celtic "b" team have there own squad off players, which means they can buy whoever but they cant feature in the celtic first team??

Think they would have to designate a separate squad before the start of the season for their B team to avoid this happening.

My initial thoughts on this when i heard it on the news tonight was that it was a very bad idea and unfair on teams such as Cove Rangers or any other non league teams with SFL ambitions. The more i think about it however, the more it sounds like a good idea. I this happening think would inject a sudden and well needed boost in interest of the 3rd Division and also would generate a lot of extra revenue for the other teams in the league with highly inflated crowds whenever the old firm B team come to visit.

Where would it all end though. Could we end up with a scenario where a Celtic B team ended up being promoted to the SPL or would the B team be restricted to the bottom league. Also, how many clubs would be allowed a B team. If the old firm are allowed this opportunity then surely it's only fair that other teams be given the same opportunity which could all end up with a very messy league system in Scotland where the 3rd Division could resemble todays SPL Reserve League.

[starchief]

Bigger clubs need a reserve team. If the other teams have decided that it's too much of a drain on their finances, then I think it's only reasonable that teams that are losing out be accommodated elsewhere. That may mean Div.3 or a local league but I support the idea in principle.

[Johnboy]

I think it's a great idea....

If ICT got to enter a team in Div 3, Xander and Rory might come back into the picture...

[Guest Muir-Jaggie]

I think it's a great idea....

If ICT got to enter a team in Div 3, Xander and Rory might come back into the picture...

say ICT did put a team in and zander had a great season. Terry wants him to play for the first team would we have to buy him?? or can we still swap players around only when transfer window is open???

[Alex MacLeod]

I think it's a great idea....

If ICT got to enter a team in Div 3, Xander and Rory might come back into the picture...

Rory dont play for ICT no more.

Its a stupid idea. Why they want to abandon the reserve league I dont know but why should they muscle into the SFL?

Teams need a squad of around 24. Some of those dont get too much opportunity to play outside the reserve league. Its also where managers get players back to match sharpness so is a necessary part of team building. To have a B team would defeat that purpose because the players would need to be registered for that team and so couldn't move between.

Typical OF domination kicking in here methinks.

[Tug]

I think it's a great idea....

If ICT got to enter a team in Div 3, Xander and Rory might come back into the picture...

Rory dont play for ICT no more.

Its a stupid idea. Why they want to abandon the reserve league I dont know but why should they muscle into the SFL?

Teams need a squad of around 24. Some of those dont get too much opportunity to play outside the reserve league. Its also where managers get players back to match sharpness so is a necessary part of team building. To have a B team would defeat that purpose because the players would need to be registered for that team and so couldn't move between.

Typical OF domination kicking in here methinks.

not wanting to shoot anyone down but did we not try to suggest a system where our "reserves" played the team in the highland league that werent playing before we got into the spl. ?

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

I think it is a good idea.

In Germany all the bigger clubs have a reserve team in the lower leagues and if I remember right cannot get into the top two leagues so can only go as high as the top regional league or liga III as it is now as I think the German league pyramid system has recently been revamped with 3 top leagues and then the regional structure below that.

A lot of the lower regional teams in Germany are semi-professional as in Scotland and their system works well. It works both ways as it allows the large clubs to field young players or squad fringe players and allows the smaller clubs to get extra revenue from the visits of bigger clubs.

For example in Germany Weder Bremen's 2nd team is just called Weder Bremen II and they have a squad which is announced at the start of the season just like any other club. Some clubs like Bremen also have a 3rd team that plays in the regional leagues. As I remember there are quite specific rules for those involved with those teams.

In addition these teams do not play in the Pokal Cup (Scottish Cup equivalent).

If we were to have a fixed number of top level teams wishing to enter reserve teams (i.e Celtic II) then the lower leagues could be restructured accordingly possibly on a regional basis that may also help the finances of the lower league clubs with lower travelling costs when they are in the lower leagues. It is definitely an avenue that should be explored further.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Tichy_Blacks_Back

[CaleyD]

Maybe they could enter a B Team into the English league setup, build it up through the leagues and when they make the premiership the could disband here and feck off south for good.

Seriously though, I'm not for allowing B Teams to enter the league setup as it creates far too many issues. Not least the fact that an SPL reserves squad would/should be comparable to a 1st Division team, so having a team with players of that kind of calibre playing in 3rd division is going to give them a walkover most seasons. That just makes a mockery of the league setup IMO.

If some clubs want to persist with regular "reserve" games then they can facilitate that need with closed door friendlies with other clubs as it is, there's no need for them to have separate teams participating in the league setup.

[Alex MacLeod]

Tichy, the point I'm trying to make is: the average club needs a squad of at least 24 players. To operate two teams would need twice as much. Most clubs couldn't sustain that.

Tug, I believe our suggestion was not to enter a team in the HL but to provide a team made up from our reserves and U19's to play friendly matches each week against the HL team that didn't have a match that week. HL having an odd number of teams.

[tm4tj]

It works in Spain as well.

Sandaza of United was playing for Valencia Mestalla (reserves) in the Tercera Division.

There is a restriction where they can not be promoted to the top league though.

[starchief]

Most clubs are in favour apparently.

[Renegade]

Let's turn the tables here for a a moment. Lets say that a couple of months ago that when the reserve league was to be scrapped, ICT or Dundee United or Killie or someone similar went to the SFA with wanting to put a "B" team in Division 3. Without a doubt the SFA would of told them where to stick it.

It really is a stupid idea and it just goes to show dominant the OF are and how the SFA will never say no the their two favourite teams, the ugly teams of Scottish football. The Old Firm.

[Kingsmills]

Aberdeen have expressed an interest in doing the same thing.

[Guest]

Aberdeen have expressed an interest in doing the same thing.

The SFL should just take over what was the SPL reserve league and call it division 4.

[stevico1]

I really don't see the problem with it a match involving a Celtic b side would probably attract more fans to it than most 1st Division matches and considering the way crowds are dwindling throughout Scottish football I think it would be a good thing.

[dannydoo]

Why's this thread been replied to after so long? Has this idea developed?

[The Mantis]

I suppose it's a parallel to the situation in the SPL where everybody hates the OF but takes their money.

Imagine turning up to watch Cowdenbeath in div 3 and seeing a couple of thousand tims/huns, all kitted out in their replica strips, filling your ground because it's nearer than where their big team is playing.

[togo]

In Germany all the bigger clubs have a reserve team in the lower leagues and if I remember right cannot get into the top two leagues so can only go as high as the top regional league or liga III as it is now as I think the German league pyramid system has recently been revamped with 3 top leagues and then the regional structure below that.

A lot of the lower regional teams in Germany are semi-professional as in Scotland and their system works well. It works both ways as it allows the large clubs to field young players or squad fringe players and allows the smaller clubs to get extra revenue from the visits of bigger clubs.

For example in Germany Weder Bremen's 2nd team is just called Weder Bremen II and they have a squad which is announced at the start of the season just like any other club. Some clubs like Bremen also have a 3rd team that plays in the regional leagues. As I remember there are quite specific rules for those involved with those teams.

In addition these teams do not play in the Pokal Cup (Scottish Cup equivalent).

If we were to have a fixed number of top level teams wishing to enter reserve teams (i.e Celtic II) then the lower leagues could be restructured accordingly possibly on a regional basis that may also help the finances of the lower league clubs with lower travelling costs when they are in the lower leagues. It is definitely an avenue that should be explored further.

Those reserve teams are a real problem to the most german clubs having to play against them. They don't bring fans (less incomings and atmosphere), their line up is way too often unpredictable, which leads to competitive distortion, when one game is played with their original squad, but another with convalescent Bundesliga players. I remember a match of Eintracht Braunschweig visiting Werder Bremen II mounting up with a number of six Bundesliga Players - two of them having played for national squads before. Werder won 4-2. One week later Werder II had to face VfB Luebeck away, and without any Bundesliga players they lost 0-3. Braunschweig and Luebeck were rivals for promotion to 2. Bundesliga... Those issues are no exception. It happens almost every match day.

[DornochJAGGIE]

I dont think its fair, why should celtic have a reserve team in the 3rd division and no body else.

If this happened then how would it work out anyway... Where would they play there games?

[caleykid1994]

I dont think its fair, why should celtic have a reserve team in the 3rd division and no body else.

If this happened then how would it work out anyway... Where would they play there games?

i'd assume it would be Lennoxtown Academy. Same with ICT if they put in a "b" team they probably would either play in the Bught or Charleston

[Council Juice]

I think a fairer and more realistic solution would be for Rangers, Celtic et al to have an affiliate club that is already in the 3rd division say for example Queens Park and send their reserves there. Paying the wages of the players and investing a yearly fee towards the running of the club (something like an extra 50k would easily keep a club in the 3rd running for a season.)

Certain rules would have to be in place. In Spain you have to register a playing squad at the end of both windows. You cant just take in players from outwith this group for league games. So Celtic could just stick an injured player in the 3rd to get fitness then take him back after a month to play as he wouldnt be registered until the next window.

The lower league club could only remain affiliated until (if they) they reached the 1st division after which they would be limited to loan signings and the yearly payments would end.

I dont get it. I have all these great ideas and yet Gordon Smith has not yet been in touch. Maybe if I aired them elsewhere than the CTO board....