ICTFC

CLUB STATEMENT : AGM & Annual Report : 23/11/17

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Satan said:

Where's yer screenshot of note 1.2?

This is the Directors note refered to by the auditors.

20190226_111351.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, The Long Man said:

That's standard accountancy speak in annual reports. They have to weigh up all the potential contingencies, however remote or unlikely and report it in dispassionate terms. Nearly every company trading at a loss will have something like it in their annual accounts.

I may be wrong, but I don't recall having ever seen a comment such as that in our annual accounts, certainly not in recent years and not last year when we also reported a sizeable loss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, old caley girl said:

Thats not the kind of spending I am meaning WH. Im not meaning the football or youth kind of spending.

Ok, but what other spending given the low revenues the club generate? If we lost a back room salary or 2, would this make a difference do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

So if your local shop stops trading because they cant compete - would you start giving them donations? No, you'd let them either restructure and trade accordingly or go to the wall.

This whole idea that the club trades on loyalty of hard working individuals who often already contribute to offer even more in return for nothing seems naive. Its time for the board members (afterall they have each chosen to be there) to make the hard choices of how to restructure the club and move it forwards in a long term and sustainable way. Begging for money is not the solution - however if there are affluent fans who want to throw their money into this pit then go ahead, maybe they will even create a plaque with your names so you can all get the plaudits from the rest of us.

For clarity you’d rather see the club go down without a fight? And a plaque, on that basis, will be of use to no one as the club will be consigned to history.  I’m far from affluent but I’m certainly not wishing to see my team disappear.  Nor am I naive; I’d certainly look for transparency and a plan as to where the money will go and what it will be used for but in principle I support the idea to crowd fund.

A lot of what we shouldn’t do in your post but I’d like to see what suggestions you have to drive the club on.  I’m sure you must have some as your posts are clearly well constructed and thought out.  NOT sarcastic for clarity.

We need input from everyone as to how we go forward?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, bdu98196 said:

So if your local shop stops trading because they cant compete - would you start giving them donations? No, you'd let them either restructure and trade accordingly or go to the wall.

This whole idea that the club trades on loyalty of hard working individuals who often already contribute to offer even more in return for nothing seems naive. Its time for the board members (afterall they have each chosen to be there) to make the hard choices of how to restructure the club and move it forwards in a long term and sustainable way. Begging for money is not the solution - however if there are affluent fans who want to throw their money into this pit then go ahead, maybe they will even create a plaque with your names so you can all get the plaudits from the rest of us.

I get where you are coming from, but the simple fact is that football clubs cannot be compared to any other traditional businesses. Where else would you have people throwing money into a loss making business year after year other than football clubs or some other comparable venture where loyalty, support and tribalism is more important than profit. Whether you have 250 shares or 250,000 shares in ICT you did not buy them for any expected return. However, you can only go to the well so many times before it dries up so yes there does need to be a plan and it does need to be communicated to the supporters openly (and quickly by the sound of it).

 

24 minutes ago, Weekend Hacker said:

Ok, but what other spending given the low revenues the club generate? If we lost a back room salary or 2, would this make a difference do you think?

Depends on how much those individuals are being paid, how much revenue they generate, and how crucial the tasks they perform are. For those whose main task is to bring in revenue then its easy to measure if targets were reached, but for those who may provide support services or perform duties that enhance the matchday experience then its harder. We know that after our first relegation the staff was pared to the bone, perhaps too close to the bone, and many staff were let go with those remaining taking on multiple roles. I am not sure how things stack up now but given my dealings with a few folk then some of those same people are still doing multiple roles ....    

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Weekend Hacker said:

For clarity you’d rather see the club go down without a fight? And a plaque, on that basis, will be of use to no one as the club will be consigned to history.  I’m far from affluent but I’m certainly not wishing to see my team disappear.  Nor am I naive; I’d certainly look for transparency and a plan as to where the money will go and what it will be used for but in principle I support the idea to crowd fund.

A lot of what we shouldn’t do in your post but I’d like to see what suggestions you have to drive the club on.  I’m sure you must have some as your posts are clearly well constructed and thought out.  NOT sarcastic for clarity.

We need input from everyone as to how we go forward?

What I am suggesting is that a hard look and difficult choices are made, in business in its very basic terms, money in must exceed money out. Therefore cutting the outgoings needs to be looked at further, this is the only way for the club to survive. No point having a begging bowl asking fans for yet more without outlining what the club are doing - for all the challenging of my posts on this nobody seems to think that the questions regarding where the monies have gone should be addressed - who has had payoffs, how much in wages, whats spent on maintenance & running costs and finally while directors dont take a salary we all know expenses can be manipulated - without full honest and transparent disclosure then why would any fan give away their money?

For me, I'd be happy with a long term goal - cutting the playing staff costs by removing some of the still higher earners and those who seems to make little impact or contribution, use some of that to increase the youth budgets & investment and pack the team with young guys who are on lesser financial contracts, include incentives based on club income & success and overall develop a product that may get us to stability & maybe even players to sell on (imagine that!!!!) - its longterm vision which may mean dropping down or even PT to come back stronger, other teams have done this so why cant we. It may not be popular with all fans especially those focused on the Premiership as a holy grail but better to be here for a long time than just one good time.

Unfortunately for those on the board they went into the positions they have with greater transparency of the clubs position than us fans (I hope so anyway) - they have to be prepared for hard questions and tough decisions otherwise why are they there - cant just have good times. While it may not be the fault of the current regime they have a duty to fix this and thats what comes for the roles they have taken. I've posted before where I feel the club fails and primarily its engaging with fans - we have communication, marketing and image issues yet have people dedicated to these roles. Directors coming on here saying 'we dont know what to do'. 'we need money' - theres pages of threads & topics the mods can direct them to with numerous great fan suggestions on improvements without any real cub outlay.

Phase 1 of any improvement plan is to perform a Lessons Learned on whats gone wrong before then strategise how in small and manageable steps we can work towards an end goal. Have the club done this and understand what to do or just blaming the old regime stating the mess isnt their fault but give us money to fix it?

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Weekend Hacker said:

Ok, but what other spending given the low revenues the club generate? If we lost a back room salary or 2, would this make a difference do you think?

I think you will find a club has lots of other expenses. Running hospitality, corporate stuff, outside advisors etc. Some of which generate money and some of which don't.

Edited by old caley girl
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, CaleyD said:

I may be wrong, but I don't recall having ever seen a comment such as that in our annual accounts, certainly not in recent years and not last year when we also reported a sizeable loss.

The Auditor's comment relates to a point I made in an earlier post regarding the strengthening of the balance sheet through the addition of new assets (stands) and the basic solvency test.

Without the addition of the asset then the short term liabilities and cah flow difficulties over the past year would have made it difficult to demonstrate that, in lieu of a credible increase in income, the club was solvent. The comment specifically shows (understandably) that the Auditors have concerns that the value of the asset cannot be realised in the short term to act as a liquid asset (to offset liabilities coming due).

The current month on month P&L (and resulting run rate) is needed to understand whether this is an improving situation which through further reduction in expenditure and increase in income can be controlled.

The lack of external debt is a positive in relation to all this however I view it telling in terms of cash flow that we decided to move Oakley on in the last window.

I would add that the current board are in many ways dealing with the hand they have been dealt with. Removing the remaining large wages off the books (and I would ask whether we are still paying Foran?) will assist however I'm not convinced that this will balance things out. In simple terms further injection of cash is likley to be needed over the current finacial year

Winning the Scottish Cup again or at least getting to the Semis where the attendance monies are pooled would be a major help......

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BDU, thanks for your response.  Your points are valid and clear.  My fear is that if we got PT (or the youth gets chopped) there may not be a way back from that as we seem to be fundamentally unable to get bums on seats.  Either of these options may make that even more difficult to achieve and whilst I don't live in 2015, I think that we do have a club to save.  As I'm sure we all do.  I think between us - board included - with full transparency and engagement we will find a solution.  Or I certainly hope so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/25/2019 at 7:47 PM, Alan Simpson said:

That's harsh OFWs a top keeper rarely had a bad game for us and played thro injury the season we went down can't expect him to walk away from a half decent wage he's like the rest of us got rent to pay I'd take a bumper pay packet if it was offered tho tbh doubt he's taking home that much

I suspect rent/mortgage ain't too much of a problem on £1800 a week or whatever it is.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, CaleyD said:

Just in case I get accused of only posting the bad bit, here are the entire accounts for people to pick through for the good bits too...

ictfc_accounts_2018.pdf 12.94 MB · 11 downloads

Thanks for sharing. Fair to say that in the absence of the stadium transfer in and related revaluation and rent adjustments, ICT would be very significantly "balance sheet insolvent" (i.e. net liabilities instead of net assets). The club have (a little unusually) taken credit for the stadium etc. in these accounts to 31 May 2018 even though the related legal stuff didn't seem to be concluded until after (January 2019!) ... not necessarily technically wrong but seems a bit of a stretch (hence the careful wording of note 4 on page 16). More detailed disclosures tend to be part and parcel with audited accounts. Of course, smaller companies don't require audits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

So since we are in sharing mood. What exactly are the situations with OFW and Mr Foran ?

OFW is I believe still at the club 'injured' probably until the end of the season when his contract ends. 

Foran is finished with the gardening and is punting football shirts down the market. 

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Fraz said:

OFW is I believe still at the club 'injured' probably until the end of the season when his contract ends. 

Foran is finished with the gardening and is punting football shirts down the market. 

Wev all milked a full paying sick scheme in fact I was sacked for it once upon a time lol! Foran be punting moody PSG tops in magaluf this summer flights and accomadation curtesy of ICT FC!

  • Thanks 1
  • Facepalm 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Alan Simpson said:

Wev all milked a full paying sick scheme in fact I was sacked for it once upon a time lol! Foran be punting moody PSG tops in magaluf this summer flights and accomadation curtesy of ICT FC!

Speak for yourself. I doubt that many people on this site have behaved in such a dishonest way.

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That’s the date Companies House put them online, they would have received them a few days before.

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Yngwie said:

That’s the date Companies House put them online, they would have received them a few days before.

That seems to be the case. I phoned Companies House for interest and, yes, they said that the accounts were received by them on 28th Feb (within time) but processed on the 1st ... so no penalty.

However, they added that the Confirmation Statement was apparently overdue. No penalty with that if late ... but not ideal.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC149117

I am sure the accountants do a good job but it just got me thinking that they are national and one of the most expensive in town. Plenty other CA audit firms that are more reasonably priced and can also do a perfectly good job. Probably worth a thought especially given the club's finances and if costs (especially non-football, indirect overheads) are being sensibly trimmed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, cif73 said:

That seems to be the case. I phoned Companies House for interest and, yes, they said that the accounts were received by them on 28th Feb (within time) but processed on the 1st ... so no penalty.

However, they added that the Confirmation Statement was apparently overdue. No penalty with that if late ... but not ideal.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC149117

I am sure the accountants do a good job but it just got me thinking that they are national and one of the most expensive in town. Plenty other CA audit firms that are more reasonably priced and can also do a perfectly good job. Probably worth a thought especially given the club's finances and if costs (especially non-football, indirect overheads) are being sensibly trimmed. 

Do you know what they were charged?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, roarer said:

Do you know what they were charged?

No I don't ... and the published accounts don't give a detailed breakdown of overheads ... but I know the marketplace and, like any sector, there are suppliers that will typically cost more than others. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • FB_caley_thisle_online_970x90.jpg

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.