Dundee or Dunfermline?

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

According to what I have seen so far, there is no precedent for who will take on the shares formerly used by GRFC.

The logic is that both Dundee and Dunfermline need to make a case to the 11 members remaining. It would make sense to score their bids based on their respective financial positions in terms of balance sheets; player behaviour in the last three years;funding guarantee for this season.

Other thoughts or recommendations?

[Big G]

First of all I would like to express my joy at SPL chairmen having balls and doing the right thing.

I would like Dunfermline for two reasons. Firstly RFC offer 9pence in the pound for debt and if it had been accepted they would still be in the SPL and replaced by Dundee who paid 3 pence in the pound and survived and this being the second time in admin in 5 years.

Secondly. It was Dunfermline chairman John Yorkson that stood up for us in our vote for SPL entry and forced a re-vote. So what comes around...................

Edited June 25, 2012 by Big G

[old caley girl]

Dunfermline for Bridies and the fact that John Yorkson stood up for what was right early on. Think it may be Dundee tho as I think they bring more to the table crowd wise especially with the reintroduction of Dundee derbies and they wer punished for their admin.

[WYNESS101]

Bring up the DEE!!!!

[Govan Jaggie]

Dunfermline to save us from the drop or Dundee to **** off Kenny Shiels?

[CaleyD]

Having poured over and over the rules countless times in the last few weeks and months I think the strongest cases can be made in the following order....

Dundee

Falkirk

Dunfermline

The reason for that conclusion is that the rules pretty much say that the bottom team goes down and that can only be set aside if another team fails to finish the season or the "candidate" team coming up from the SFL cannot meet the membership criteria.

In effect, I think that the SPL would have to reject both Dundee & Falkirk applications received back in March before they could consider Dunfermline.

The only case I could see being argued for Dunfermline outwith the above is that the current situation does not fit any existing rules and on the basis that they lost out (as did we all) to cheats then they should be resubmitted.

Given the heavy focus on "Sporting Integrity", I think it more likely that the argument for "if you finish bottom you go down" will win over.

[lukemackay]

I'd like to see Dundee myself. But whoever who It is at least county won't be on their own down at the bottom now

[PaderbornCaley]

The only case I could see being argued for Dunfermline outwith the above is that the current situation does not fit any existing rules and on the basis that they lost out (as did we all) to cheats then they should be resubmitted.

Given the heavy focus on "Sporting Integrity", I think it more likely that the argument for "if you finish bottom you go down" will win over.

But out of 'sporting integrity' they could have a case that they were playing in a league where a team cheated. It's an interesting one.

However, Dunfermline is a rubbish away day, Dundee is ok. Not the greatest away day, but better than Dunfermline so from purely the 'away day' experience, it would have to be extra trips to Dundee for me.

[CaleyD]

Yeah...I wouldn't want to be the one to argue that case either way, but playing devils advocate...do two wrongs make a right?

[CaleyD]

BTW, I like both Dunfermline and Dundee....if it was up to me then I'd relegate St Mirren just for the hell of it and let both of them in

[12th Man]

Looking back to the past, league winning Falkirk decided to stay in the 1st div so no relegations from the SPL and a big club who 'isnt famous any more' finished bottom when the league changed from 10 to 12, no SPL relegations in either occasion so I would say the Pars have a stronger case to stay up.

[CaleyD]

Yup, but the rules were changed since then to prevent the "No Relegation" scenario....again, just playing Devils Advocate.

[BornCaley]

Hmm tough one now i think about it! Dunfermline did vote for us when we gained entry to the league and its a closer trip for away days for me. Dundee would probably offer the better football and they add another Derby to the Highland & Edinburgh Derby's

However they did try and buy the 1st division recently so i'll go for Dunfermline and hope they are still as crap as they were last season!

[Alex MacLeod]

Looking back to the past, league winning Falkirk decided to stay in the 1st div so no relegations from the SPL and a big club who 'isnt famous any more' finished bottom when the league changed from 10 to 12, no SPL relegations in either occasion so I would say the Pars have a stronger case to stay up.

First of Falkirk never 'decided' to stay in Div 1. The SPL voted not to allow them in.........on two occassions. Personally I'd be happy with any of the three dut I feel that Dunfermline should remain on the grounds that another team in the league has chosen not to remain. Besides wouldn't it really stick in the throats of those west central belters to know that Ross County replaced Rangers in the SPL. Pub quiz question of the future.

[ForzaCaley]

Falkirk. Because it'll cheese c*unty off. :D

[bauhaus]

maybe they should look at who finished consistantly highest over the period which OldCo were at it. But where do you start 90s?

[Council Juice]

If Dundee got in it would appease Thompson of DUTD who has moaned about it being rubbish that Ross County got promoted as it would hit gate money. Generally speaking the more league derbies the better. However I dont like Thompson and Yorkson DID actually vote to get us up.

There are more direct buses to Dunfermline for the Sneck though, I believe and it's closer to Edinburgh (and cheaper by public transport) however I probably wont be home from Oz for all of next season so doesn't really matter.

Who have more fans as a whole?

I do think though, looking at it objectively Dunfermline were relegated therefore should go down. I presume Dunfermline wouldn't need to apply for membership till next year as they were still SPL members as of the deadline anyway.

My vote, for sportin purposes - Dundee FC

[AJS]

Dundee - 3 derbies in the SPL next season.

[Yngwie]

Of the teams in contention, which one is most likely to finish below ICT? They get my vote.

[mainstander]

It has to be Dunfermline who are in the SPL next season. Basicaly Rangers have been relegated for being down wright irregular and out of order so there HAS been a relegation. As a result there is no need to put down the team ghich finished bottom of the league. Dundee going up would also stick in my throat after all there admin nonsense which we all thought was terrible until Rangers set totally new standards here.

[monthecaley]

i think if we're all voting rangers out on sporting integrity grounds then dunfermline have to go down as well, it can't come down to who we like more. and dundee have served their punishment for entering administration a second time - a hefty 25 point deduction, which if they hadn't received, they would've been close to winning the first division and potentially could've followed us into the spl..

has to be dundee coming up as i see it.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Bring back Queen Of The South.

[PaderbornCaley]

Can we invite Aldershot or Bristol Rovers to apply?

Lets look at the pros and cons of Dundee and Dunfermline in the SPL.

Dundee stewards are one of the worst in the country. Dunfermline have very good stewards.

Dundee 0-1 Dunfermline

We already have trips to Dundee to watch Utd so it may get boring going to the same place more often.

Dundee 0-2 Dunfermline

The catering (particulary the bridies) are better at Dunfermline

Dundee 0-3 Dunfermline

Dundee are stronger that Dunfermline imho, so Dunfermline would be more likely to finish 12th

Dundee 0-4 Dunfermline

Dundee voted against our inclusion and Dunfermline voted for our inclusion in the SPL in 2004.

Dundee 0-5 Dunfermline

Half Time.

Second half

It's a kerfuffle getting to Dunfermline on the train

Dundee 1-5 Dunfermline

In general, Dundee is a better day out that Dunfermline

Dundee 2-5 Dunfermline

Dundee got relegated in 2005, so it would be nice to have them back for a change.

Dundee 3-5 Dunfermline

Dundee will bring another SPL derby.

Dundee 4-5 Dunfermline

Dunfermline finished bottom of SPL with little reistance and Dundee had a very good season finishing 2nd in SFL1.

Dundee 5-5 Dunfermline

Full time

Dundee 5-5 Dunfermline

Extra time.

Dundee in the league will pi55 off this man.....

Dundee 6-5 Dunfermline

Welcome to the SPL Dundee

[Alex MacLeod]

Can we invite Aldershot or Bristol Rovers to apply?

Lets look at the pros and cons of Dundee and Dunfermline in the SPL.

Dundee stewards are one of the worst in the country. Dunfermline have very good stewards.

Dundee 0-1 Dunfermline

We already have trips to Dundee to watch Utd so it may get boring going to the same place more often.

Dundee 0-2 Dunfermline

The catering (particulary the bridies) are better at Dunfermline

Dundee 0-3 Dunfermline

Dundee are stronger that Dunfermline imho, so Dunfermline would be more likely to finish 12th

Dundee 0-4 Dunfermline

Dundee voted against our inclusion and Dunfermline voted for our inclusion in the SPL in 2004.

Dundee 0-5 Dunfermline

Half Time.

Second half

It's a kerfuffle getting to Dunfermline on the train

Dundee 1-5 Dunfermline

In general, Dundee is a better day out that Dunfermline

Dundee 2-5 Dunfermline

Dundee got relegated in 2005, so it would be nice to have them back for a change.

Dundee 3-5 Dunfermline

Dundee will bring another SPL derby.

Dundee 4-5 Dunfermline

Dunfermline finished bottom of SPL with little reistance and Dundee had a very good season finishing 2nd in SFL1.

Dundee 5-5 Dunfermline

Full time

Dundee 5-5 Dunfermline

Extra time.

Dundee in the league will pi55 off this man.....

Dundee 6-5 Dunfermline

Welcome to the SPL Dundee

The Elizabethan is an all right pud

Dundee 6 - 6 Dunfermline

End of extra time. We're now into penalties.

Dunfermline prevented us from a Scottish Cup final.

Dundee 7 - 6 Dunfermline

[Oddquine]

i think if we're all voting rangers out on sporting integrity grounds then dunfermline have to go down as well, it can't come down to who we like more. and dundee have served their punishment for entering administration a second time - a hefty 25 point deduction, which if they hadn't received, they would've been close to winning the first division and potentially could've followed us into the spl..

has to be dundee coming up as i see it.

But if Dundee could have done what Rangers did....they would have...twice.....let's make no bones about it. I don't remember the reactions of Dundee fans on their second administration being one whit better than those we are currently seeing from Rangers fans....."nothing to do with us, gov...we just place frankly ridiculous expectations on our club.....and don't give a toss how our heid-bummers achieve it..as long as we can be better than our rivals..but more than happy to kick the arses of every other club in the league if they have the temerity to think that we are less important in the great scheme of Scottish football than we think we are"

The very fact that they did as well as they did with a 25 point deduction simply illustrates that points deductions mean bugger all as a punishment. After all...if they could do that with a transfer embargo and a deduction....who is to say they couldn't have done the same, all along, with committed players, a decent manager and some effort, without spending money they didn't have?

If we are talking about football integrity, and are being all po-faced to ensure Rangers don't benefit from the fact that they (and the Scottish football heid-bummers) think they are too important to fail...where is the integrity in Dundee getting a place they didn't earn as opposed to Dunfermline retaining the place because they were shafted as much as every other team in the SPL? Can't see a lot of difference, myself, between Dunfermline being relegated because the team just above them cheated than because Rangers had been cheating everybody for a decade.

I do have to ask....why subsume fairness and sporting integrity for Dundee/Dundee United derbies, when you could just as easily subsume fairness and sporting integrity for Rangers/Celtic Derbies.

Hypocrisy much?