U20s win again!

[old caley girl]

So good to hear that the under 20s have won 2-0 today away to Falkirk. That's 4 wins in a row now so surely something to celebrate. Scorers were Oswell and Calum Ferguson. Well done to them all.

[Yngwie]

[CaleyD]

Whilst C*unty lost 1-6 to Dunfermline at the Global Energy Stadium yesterday.

[Yngwie]

After 4 matches we must be close to matching last season's final U19 points total.

[Kingsmills]

Bodes well for the future.

[CaleyD]

After 4 matches we must be close to matching last season's final U19 points total.

Think you might be right....vague recollection of us finishing bottom of the league on 13 points last season.

[+Fraz]

Well done to the lads! Who's the gaffer for the U20s?

[caleyboy]

Well done to the lads! Who's the gaffer for the U20s?

Big Dunk Shearer

[Oddquine]

Bodes well for the future.

How? Unless you can guarantee that all the short-term contracts (and overage players) playing for the u-20s stay with ICT for a future in the first team....and on current retainment of players signed on short term contracts, that isn't a given..

[CaleyD]

Oddquine, the "dealing" in younger players is quite different to that of older players insofar as if another club wanted to sign them then we would be guaranteed money when they moved based on how long they had been at the club. This money is paid regardless of whether the player is out of contract or not when he moves (unless the club have not offered them a new contract, and that would not be the case with anyone worth keeping) and is viewed as compensation for the development work done by clubs with the younger players.

In reality, only a small proportion of players at U19/20 level are ever good enough to make it to the first team. This is pretty much the case at any club, although every now and again a club can go through a bit of a purple patch and produce a good crop of youngsters which benefit the first team and the finances from selling them on.....Hibs immediately springs to mind from a few years back, but that hasn't lasted and they are now doing no better than most.

We've done reasonably well from bringing through youngsters over the years, although the setup did suffer a bit of a setback when we were relegated and finances dictated cut backs in that area. We are now seeing some positive signs that we have quickly overcome that with young players already featuring within the first team squad and good few on the fringes.

So, to echo what Kingsmills has said....it bodes well for the future.

[old caley girl]

Bodes well for the future.

How? Unless you can guarantee that all the short-term contracts (and overage players) playing for the u-20s stay with ICT for a future in the first team....and on current retainment of players signed on short term contracts, that isn't a given..

This was meant to be a good news story. Of course it could bode well for the future. Even if a couple of these lads go on to the first team that's got to be good.

Edited September 12, 2012 by old caley girl

[bauhaus]

We sit equal top of the league on 9 points, with 3 teams above us on goal difference. When did Falkirk, Hamilton and Dunfermline joim the spl league. And no Rangers, surely the under 20s at the new club shouldnt be dealt with the same way as the first team. They had nowt to do with EBTs as they should have been in school. Seems the SFA are hindering the talent tap which is no good for any Scotland fans and their yoof development.

[Yngwie]

That league table is out of date seeing as we have played 4 won 4. It seems to get updated quite erratically.

Having previously been just for the SPL teams, this season the league got expanded from 12 to 15 teams to increase the number of games, creating places for the relegated team Dunfermline, and the top 2 non-promoted First Division teams Falkirk and Hamilton.

The rules don't allow 3rd division teams a place in the league.

[12th Man]

Top of the league !

[ictchris]

I'm going to start supporting our Under 20s.

[CaleyD]

Glory Hunter

[old caley girl]

Glory Hunter

I'm with ICTchris we deserve a wee bit glory lol

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

_{Beat me to the quip Chris !!}

_{Fer fecks sake - if this was the first feckin team - how would be feeling.}

_{Lets just enjoy the moment whilst we can !!}

[+bughtmaster]

_{Beat me to the quip Chris !!}

_{Fer fecks sake - if this was the first feckin team - how would be feeling.}

_{Lets just enjoy the moment whilst we can !!}

like a seer fu o vodka

[Yngwie]

Updated table here.

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s60

[CaleyD]

Our next home U20's match is Tuesday 18th versus Dundee....just awaiting confirmation of the kick-off time (usually 2:00pm).

[Oddquine]

Oddquine, the "dealing" in younger players is quite different to that of older players insofar as if another club wanted to sign them then we would be guaranteed money when they moved based on how long they had been at the club. This money is paid regardless of whether the player is out of contract or not when he moves (unless the club have not offered them a new contract, and that would not be the case with anyone worth keeping) and is viewed as compensation for the development work done by clubs with the younger players.

In reality, only a small proportion of players at U19/20 level are ever good enough to make it to the first team. This is pretty much the case at any club, although every now and again a club can go through a bit of a purple patch and produce a good crop of youngsters which benefit the first team and the finances from selling them on.....Hibs immediately springs to mind from a few years back, but that hasn't lasted and they are now doing no better than most.

We've done reasonably well from bringing through youngsters over the years, although the setup did suffer a bit of a setback when we were relegated and finances dictated cut backs in that area. We are now seeing some positive signs that we have quickly overcome that with young players already featuring within the first team squad and good few on the fringes.

So, to echo what Kingsmills has said....it bodes well for the future.

How much do we make from selling players on, CaleyD? Is it still a minimum of £3000 a season compensation for youth players moving on? How much have we made from that over the years of our youth system, though? Did it apply to the likes of the laddies dunted last season, some with up to 10 years in the youth set up, and playing Highland League now, for example?

Does the same compensation thing apply in the rest of the UK and Ireland? If so, how much have we spent over the last few years in compensation for development when bringing in young players from other clubs to our youth squad? When does a youth player stop being a youth player attracting compensation anyway?

Tbh, I wasn't really thinking of the income side of it. Mine was more a response to the assumption that this "u-20" side is going necessarily to be any more of a future for ICT, in playing terms, than any other squad of annual contractees and loanees,....and I was a bit irritated at the digs at last years under 19s.

[CaleyD]

I couldn't tell you the exact calculations used these days....but they are/can be quite complicated. They only really come in to play in situations where a club losing a young player doesn't feel the compensation being offered is fair.

As I said, if we release a player then we get nothing for them.

Cross border/association rules are different...I may be wrong, but I don't believe compensation can be claimed for a player moving to a different association. This might suggest why we are taking in younger guys from outside Scotland (we don't have to pay compensation) and add weight to the claims that Scottish players are beyond our budget....of course we also lose if our young guys sign outwith Scotland!!!

On your final point, it's purely a numbers game. The more young lads you have showing potential, the more likely you are to find players that will make the step up. These are lads already on our books, being watched by our coaches every day and so we get first bite at the cherry in terms of offering them pro contracts and the opportunity to step up. Does that guarantee we'll be any more successful next season? Absolutely not....but the more players we bring through ourselves, the fewer we have to go looking for from elsewhere and the more unity you can build into a squad.

[caleyboy]

I couldn't tell you the exact calculations used these days....but they are/can be quite complicated. They only really come in to play in situations where a club losing a young player doesn't feel the compensation being offered is fair.

As I said, if we release a player then we get nothing for them.

Cross border/association rules are different...I may be wrong, but I don't believe compensation can be claimed for a player moving to a different association. This might suggest why we are taking in younger guys from outside Scotland (we don't have to pay compensation) and add weight to the claims that Scottish players are beyond our budget....of course we also lose if our young guys sign outwith Scotland!!!

On your final point, it's purely a numbers game. The more young lads you have showing potential, the more likely you are to find players that will make the step up. These are lads already on our books, being watched by our coaches every day and so we get first bite at the cherry in terms of offering them pro contracts and the opportunity to step up. Does that guarantee we'll be any more successful next season? Absolutely not....but the more players we bring through ourselves, the fewer we have to go looking for from elsewhere and the more unity you can build into a squad.

I hear what you say Caley D but you miss out the vital part of those with "potential" and that is "quality".

Edited September 20, 2012 by caleyboy

[Yngwie]

We're top o' the league and they're no.......

http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s60