Something is wrong ?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

It is not doom and gloom - it is just genuine concern. This started off as a personal observation - it would appear that there is a division between those who agree that there is something wrong, those that didnt really notice and those who simply think that time will be the healer.

Its a bit different to the first season.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

Complacency has been a problem at ICT as indeed every club. Time waits for no man and Dunfermline now prop up Division 1.

Historically we are better in adversity. Ask Clyde or Celtic. I insist the Rangers result was reasonable. Our boys are not millionaires. Yesterday's result appears disappointing but the pattern has been seen before. Take the lead towards the end, celebrate and then lose. Blame the ref, blame the manager, blame the opposition, blame the weather, blame Romanov, blame Chick Young, belittle Ross County.

We must not lose next week. This time last year Golly's career with us effectively ended. I have confidence Donald and Charlie will get things spot on next week. But beware, St Mirren are hungry and complacency last season meant we gave away 3 easy points on the first day.

[SMEE]

Painfully bleedin obvious wot's wrong with this team... I'm surprised IHE, with all his professional expertise can't see it....

The morale of a team can sink like a stone when individual members of the team are routinely labelled as "sh!te" or "pi$h" or "cr@p" or even "not fit to wear a Caley shirt"

Airing such comments from the stands is bad enough - that's been part of the game for a long time now - But to actually take the trouble to publish them on a website is reprehensible....

This will be the last post from me on this, or any other matter....  :blah01:

Ps... It upsets their families and friends as well...

 

if players are that sensitive they should go look for an alternative job. Its all part of the territory! Gotta take the ruff with the smooth. I believe people have a right to express their views (within reason) having paid good money only to be left feeling let down.

[The Mantis]

4 bookings- a team in turmoil or a team that competes to win?

I defer to your professional expertise IHE but yesterday I just saw 11 (make that 13) guys scrapping like buggery to get a result to make up for the flat showing last week. I also thought some of the passing and movement was good- apart from the Russell/Granty scrap I thought we showed togetherness as a team.

[Naelifts]

Sitting where I was, admittedly a full 3 metres from IHE, I saw a different game entirely.

It was a reasonably good contest between two lower SPL sides. We dominated in the first half possession wise and simply lacked enough creativity in final 3rd..............its always been the case.

We are shakier at the back and require shoring up or we will get torn apart by quicker opponents with more guile than 'Well. Caff did appear to be a culprit at times but **** and Roscoe also had their moments.

New boy Niculae impressed me with his work-rate (unusual in  an E European import). He should have been replaced after an hour............I'm sure I saw him communicating with the bench after 60 mins but he said he wanted to stay on ( Not his decision to take ). My heart DID sink however when Dean Mac came on. He is SO small and doesn't seem able to run.............I hope he proves me wrong. I also think that fitness was a problem. With 15 to go Roscoe started to look fast and popped up everywhere ( I think this was because everyone else was knackered ( except Roy of course who has one of the most phenomenal engines I have ever seen). We were getting no-one forward to support in the last quarter.

I saw no disharmony........just Granty doing his job............pulling Russell aside and balling at Caff.

It WAS a penalty. A draw would have been fairer but it was an entertaining 90 and no complaints from me on that score.

In all , a marked improvement on last week. positives in Niculae ( I am sure he is a player), Fraser looks safe,some decent football ON THE GROUND  from players still getting used to one another (DC and MN).

No .........of course we could do with a commanding central defender..............but, more importantly, fitness needs to improve. Lets stop these monotonous and pointless pre-season Highland jaunts

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Apolgies as I was evidently blocking yer view Naelifts. I never said that there wasnt a lot of effort put in. I am referring to the "togetherness" factor as I have never witnessed such a level of disagreemnent and derison. But then again I am more professionally astust as Mantis alluded to.

[Johnboy]

Teammates disagreeing is not necessarily a bad thing, IHE...

I remember - back in Aberdeen's hey-day Willie Miller and Alex McLeish punching lumps out of each other after they conceeded a careless goal... When they came off at half-time Fergie patted them both on the back, and told them that was the kind of spirit he wanted to see in his team....

But on more serious note - and this is a subject you know more about than I do - Don't you think that abuse from so-called supporters, whether from the stands or from this website, affects the players?

Is there not a danger that some of these guys could become traumatised and finish up as serial killers?

I just hope and pray our support doesn't turn again Rossco en-masse... The possible outcome just doesn't bear thinking about...

Anyway this will be my final word on this subject....

[Alex MacLeod]

Is there not a danger that some of these guys could become traumatised and finish up as serial killers?

Is there not a danger that some of the contributors on here could become traumatised and finish up as serial killers if they have to read another final word on the subject? :001:

[Scotty]

Is there not a danger that some of these guys could become traumatised and finish up as serial killers?

Is there not a danger that some of the contributors on here could become traumatised and finish up as serial killers if they have to read another final word on the subject? :001:

:rotflmao:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Teammates disagreeing is not necessarily a bad thing, IHE...

I remember - back in Aberdeen's hey-day Willie Miller and Alex McLeish punching lumps out of each other after they conceeded a careless goal... When they came off at half-time Fergie patted them both on the back, and told them that was the kind of spirit he wanted to see in his team....

But on more serious note - and this is a subject you know more about than I do - Don't you think that abuse from so-called supporters, whether from the stands or from this website, affects the players?

Is there not a danger that some of these guys could become traumatised and finish up as serial killers?

I just hope and pray our support doesn't turn again Rossco en-masse... The possible outcome just doesn't bear thinking about...

Anyway this will be my final word on this subject....

Have you not got any consideration fer the families and friends of Alex Miller and Tin Tin.

[alimci]

I thought we played some shockingly entertaining possession football in the first half and was very pleased by Marius, I thought he slotted in very well and I am very optimistic. Deano is just coming back to fitness but ran back well at one point to cover for Tokely who seemed to have taken up a permanent position on the left of midfield. Which I think was part of our defensive problem, and I thought Duncan had to cover for him too often also. Caff, who I used to be pessimistic about as his view of defence seemed to be "knock the ball out", started improving a lot but seems to have returned to this mentality.

It's great to have the line of defence moving forward, but I don't think it's necessarily a good idea if no-one can get back in time.

Don't think we have a team togetherness problem though.

Oh, and I thought the support on Saturday was fantastic. One of the best away supports at Motherwell ever  :003:

[Scarlet Pimple]

The Rangers walked away with a victory at Tulloch and St Mirren held them.....? It would be foolish to take them lightly--or any team in the SPL especially Gretna who must be fortified by the fact that they were 2 up on the Hibs  recently.

But at the start of this season the Scarlet Pimple had a foreboding and apprehension about this season which is unsettling but remains unspecific. I believe that the loss of Dods was greater than that of Dargo because the whole of the thrust of ICT over the past three years has come from a solid defense.And the other concern is the factor of the spirit of the team which, if eroded, can be a very negative factor.

The question of complacency after three successful years, if and when it raises it's head, will be an unexpected ingredient in the mix with unpredictable results.

Finally the introduction of highly-priced players with the possible unsettling effects already referred-to above can and may have changed the dynamic and temperament of the team. Which leads me back to the opening lines--this is a 50/50 situation at ICT right now . I remain apprehensive and would love to be proved wrong. :010:

[tm4tj]

St Mirren held them to a 2-0 defeat :029:

Or am I missing something here.

[Johnboy]

St Mirren held them to a 2-0 defeat :029:

Or am I missing something here.

I think he means St Mirren held Rangers for about 53 minutes....  :014:

He's absolutely right about Dods though - our whole game was built round a solid defence which was extremely well marshalled by our former inspirational captain.

Such a pity a package couldn't have been put together that might have kept both him & Dargo here... along the lines of the one that managed to attract Nicolae....  :024:

This will be my last word on this subject.....

No... I'm sorry - My mind is made up this time.....

[beachcomber]

contagiousness of discord

You've out-Bannermanned Bannerman there

I can't see this phrase finding it's way into the Yogi Hughes football managers lexicon. "Aye, the boy dun maginficent, and wus sick as a parrot, but the contagiousness of discord wiz whit really hurt us today"

I thought they were a Brazilian thrash metal band

:music05:

[Harry Chibber]

Has anyone found out the reason why Granty thew his captains arm band at Fraser?

... or why Rossco had his hand to his ear and finger to mouth when celebrating the goal? Was he telling us to be quiet?

[Alex MacLeod]

My guess, and its only a guess is that the armband was troubling Grant so he took it off and threw it towards Fraser, not at him, possibly for safe keeping.

As for Rossco, one of the things he and Barry do well is overlap, where Rossco makes the run and Barry covers. Unfortunatley it doesn't seem to be working with any of the other mids on the right side. Switching positions can, and does, confuse the opposition but everyone has to be aware of it happening to provide the cover.

One of the plus points for me is that we did play some good football on saturday and didn't sit way deep. Defence was coming out as a unit which is reflected in M'Well being caught offside on sixteen occassions. Caff, in especial, needs to build some confidence and play the ball instead of humping it up the field. Hopefully that will come soon

[A96]

Sitting where I was, admittedly a full 3 metres from IHE, I saw a different game entirely.

It was a reasonably good contest between two lower SPL sides. We dominated in the first half possession wise and simply lacked enough creativity in final 3rd..............its always been the case.

We are shakier at the back and require shoring up or we will get torn apart by quicker opponents with more guile than 'Well. Caff did appear to be a culprit at times but **** and Roscoe also had their moments.

New boy Niculae impressed me with his work-rate (unusual in  an E European import). He should have been replaced after an hour............I'm sure I saw him communicating with the bench after 60 mins but he said he wanted to stay on ( Not his decision to take ). My heart DID sink however when Dean Mac came on. He is SO small and doesn't seem able to run.............I hope he proves me wrong. I also think that fitness was a problem. With 15 to go Roscoe started to look fast and popped up everywhere ( I think this was because everyone else was knackered ( except Roy of course who has one of the most phenomenal engines I have ever seen). We were getting no-one forward to support in the last quarter.

I saw no disharmony........just Granty doing his job............pulling Russell aside and balling at Caff.

It WAS a penalty. A draw would have been fairer but it was an entertaining 90 and no complaints from me on that score.

In all , a marked improvement on last week. positives in Niculae ( I am sure he is a player), Fraser looks safe,some decent football ON THE GROUND  from players still getting used to one another (DC and MN).

Don't know how many metres away from you I was sat at Fir Park on Saturday Naelifts but - yup - we seemed to be watching the same game and I agree with all you say.

I found it an entertaining game of football and - like others - was right scunnered to see us give the game away in the last few minutes. I was unimpressed by the screaming and shouting at the ref by Russel Duncan and Mike Fraser. Did they really think they were going to change the refs mind? They need to grow up - all you get for that is a yellow (or red) card!!

But as I've said elsewhere on this forum - if we play like we did against Motherwell in the first half then we will not be in relegation trouble this season. There are plenty of positives to be taken from Saturday's match. A little bit of squabbling amongst players does not suggest meltdown - it just tells us that these guys care passionately enough about the team, its performance and results!!

[TheresNoEsInBlack]

It may sound a bit perverse but I'm glad we got beat by Motherwell if it means we can lose any complacency because of it.  Getting beat by Rangers was always likely but I think the 'Well game may be the wake-up call we need.  I reckon we'll bounce back very well from this one because all the players have a point to prove now.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

It's great to have the line of defence moving forward, but I don't think it's necessarily a good idea if no-one can get back in time.

That is the worry. We will get caught out playing this too much and it is a case of going out in unison as well.

Oh, and I thought the support on Saturday was fantastic. One of the best away supports at Motherwell ever.

And it will only get better.  :001:

[Ritchie Sacramento]

Oh, and I thought the support on Saturday was fantastic. One of the best away supports at Motherwell ever.

And it will only get better.  :001:

An 1000% improvement on any time we've been there bar the game game, I think.  :021:

The support this Saturday should be good too :001:

[Johnboy]

Oh, and I thought the support on Saturday was fantastic. One of the best away supports at Motherwell ever.

And it will only get better.  :001:

An 1000% improvement on any time we've been there bar the game game, I think.  :021:

The support this Saturday should be good too :001:

Just as long as they don't turn on them if things don't go too well......  :018:

[Guest eliza]

I just LOVE the away games as ICT supporters try to sound as if there are more there than actually is!    We sing, clap, chant and generally cause a noise and the atmosphere is catching.  One sings, nearly everyone sings!  At times I was nearly deafened by the bloke behind me and no bad thing either.  Bring it on........

Also the Stewards seem to be a lot more sensible than those at home?!  :021:

[Ritchie Sacramento]

I just LOVE the away games as ICT supporters try to sound as if there are more there than actually is!    We sing, clap, chant and generally cause a noise and the atmosphere is catching.   One sings, nearly everyone sings!   At times I was nearly deafened by the bloke behind me and no bad thing either.   Bring it on........

:022:

Also the Stewards seem to be a lot more sensible than those at home?! :021:

They didn't ask us to sit down once on Saturday !This was refreshing compared to what occurs at TCS and certain other grounds....

[alimci]

I just LOVE the away games as ICT supporters try to sound as if there are more there than actually is!    We sing, clap, chant and generally cause a noise and the atmosphere is catching.  One sings, nearly everyone sings!  At times I was nearly deafened by the bloke behind me and no bad thing either.  Bring it on........

...apart from the games last season when there were only six of us singing, including three kids recruited on the spot by KK  :015: