HEAVY HANDED STREWARDING FOR A CHANGE

[Scarlet Pimple]

East Fife won against St Mirren. They have a good team bejabbers.

Also few of you probably know that in years gone by East Fife were top of the Pops in Scotland so much so that they were in great demand for friendly games all over the place especially England. When too many  games took too much out of the team the performance started to decline thereafter but in their heyday at Methil they were apparently a very strong and great team. Won the Scottish Cup and League  etc.

Inquisitor--Scarlet you only read that on their web site because you watched them for many years at Bayview when you stayed in Bowling Green Street ,Methil, as a youngster after you came back from RAF National Service.

Scarlet--so what? I saw some terrific games there. One of which was so full of ****-for-leather football that it still remains in my memory--Stenhousemuir as I recall. These of course were the days when five forwards flowed forward in unison, like a rugby team and it was a beautiful sight --pass on pass and ....GOALLLLLLL!My Dad who accompanied me to the game said later that he had never seen his son so animated. Hi Dad--still waters run deep ....eh? :016:

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

As a mature "victim" I did get a response but in the end it was mere PR and tokenism. It will always be the case that there will be standing in a singing section. As I said before it is rather difficult to chant and sit.

I did note that at both the Well and Midden games that a small section of fans in the home area stood fer most of the game without any apparent hassle. That has got to be a directive from the club to allow some freedom. At most games, except the OF, stewards appear to target the away end. At TCS it almost appears to be the opposite. I would suggest that e-mails and telephone calls in numbers to the club should be prioritised and anf official statement and comment fro the Supporters Club or Trust.

There also needs to be some official comment from Mike Smith in regard to the clubs actual take on the Singing Section. If it happens on a Tuesday nite against Arbroath - well feck me.

[+jagster]

well said  :021:

i sat not far from you in section a on that fateful day

if bald head and beer belly means mature , i guess i've finally grown up :019:

[L_G]

I have also seen the afore mentioned 'Gentleman' in the pub along the road several times with grassa etc and for want of other words 'approachable' would not in my humble opinion be the best adjective.

In the pub, I think he has every right to be a little unapproachable, everyone deserves time off for goodness sake

Re this issue about standing again, Isn't the cis cup played under the rules of the sfa as opposed to the spl arbroath and many other teams in this competition have no all seated criteria therefore if its safe for us to stand in these grounds, is it not also safe for us to stand in our own ground, when sir elton played in front of 13,000? we were encouraged to stand,sing,dance etc with1250 there tonight was that deemed to be a much greater risk, I was in the north stand as usual and had nothing but praise for this section for trying to put some atmosphere into a ground which sometimes has less of it than the moon

if it wasn't for them the biggest noise tonight would have been the crisps opening at half time

they need all the support they can get if we are ever going to have adecent vibe at the ground, the clach pre season game at grant st made more noise than many at tcs and there was only a handful of ferry boys there - mind that maybe says something about the merkinch crew :015:

P's. does anyone know how east fife got on today

If the game is played in an SPL ground, then SPL rules apply regardless of the game being played, this includes friendlies as far as I'm aware.

[Northern_jaggie]

someone get a petition going

[+jagster]

morning lg

i totally agree that he is allowed time off, maybe approachable was the wrong word and i for one would never grudge anyone having that from the humble street cleaner to a top brain surgeon, we all need time to de - stress

against that i would say that someone who puts their name into a public domain and then expects anonymyty sp? must surely be kidding himself, like many here i was at our very first game when we beat arbroath 5 - 2 and herchy scored a hat trick and goodness knows how many hundred since.

maybe my memory is playing tricks but until fairly recently over all these years i don't remember too many chairmans columns in the programme, i think djs might have been the first, but apologies if i'm wrong.

but to put your views across in a programme and not entitle others to have theirs to me personally seems a bit off handed. when a very wealthy individual(no names mentioned)  can take less well off punters hard earned cash week in week out and not expect some reproach, that's not the real world

thats fairyland.

i am personally happy sitting at games but there must surely be some avenue somewhere that can allow some people to stand, i think in most of the major incidents over the years crowd control(hillsborough) dilapidated stadia(ibrox) were the reasons for disasters, don't ever recall 100 people tripping en masse and causing such a problem, i think the greater risk would be jumping out of your seats when a goal is scored etc, tripping over and landing badly causing injury etc

these are obviously my own personal views and at no time have i meant to be disrespectful to anyone at the club as like most others i am 100% behind ICT but these issues keep going round and round and never get resolved, i know you and the others in the trust do a good job but this is still a fledgling club with lots of growing up to do and with being so relatively young yet, it gives us all, chairman, fans etc the chance to get it right and create an environment and a model to be the envy of many clubs in scotland.

while working down south recently with a dundee season ticket holder, he was quite envious when i said that i'd been to our first ever league game, and pretty impressed at how far we'd come, i was real chuffed/proud when he came out with that but lets not rest on our laurels and keep going forward, throwing fans out of the stadium for standing etc is not the way forward

they are tomorrows lifeblood when we are all old/older wrinkly/wrinklier

therefore lets sort these probs out when we still can

[L_G]

As a fan throughout the divisions, have you not got your ticket for the Hall of fame dinner, where you can relive a lot of those moments.  Promises to be a good night especially for fans who have been around since the 3rd division. (Apologies for the shameless sales opportunity)  :015:

[ICTBTTH]

, a bored stewerd came along to tell us all to sit down

this was not true if i remember rightly.  he came over and asked the lads behind me to come off the wall.  then he left with a smile on his face.  this was the same steward that told us all to sit down against rangers.  we were not bothered by anyone against united on saturday so this is a prime example of bad stewarding

two police came and grabbed a random and dragged him out.

the random person that you are referring to here was myself.  the reason i was given was because i was singing what everyone else was singing.  called it breach of the peace. didnt get let out of the cells till 2 o clock this morning despite my dad coming to pick me up at 10 o clock.  now ah got ah criminal record all because i "flicked the v's" at them :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33:

[Dmacca]

Im sure i heard or read not so long ago that new thinking was that standing at football could be less dangerous than sitting ? (dont know why) or maybe not a factor in safety.

There was a case being put forward to allowing standing sections at grounds again ?

Anyone else remember this.

[+jagster]

As a fan throughout the divisions, have you not got your ticket for the Hall of fame dinner, where you can relive a lot of those moments.  Promises to be a good night especially for fans who have been around since the 3rd division. (Apologies for the shameless sales opportunity)  :015:

will be in dublin then - prob having quite a few pints of guinness :drinking08:

should be good though, hope theres a good turn out and lots of the ex players as well, mike noble, jimmy calder etc and i hope charlie gets a special welcome, he will always be a an ict - caledonian - inverness thistle legend :021:

[CaleyD]

As it would appear that someone has now been charged/officially cautioned people need to be mindful of what they say regarding events on Tuesday night.  If you witnessed what happened then you need to get in contact with the person directly to offer up your statement and not be puting it on a public forum..

[Guest TinCanFan]

From what I saw last night the stewards were far worse than they were against Dunfermline.  It started, as said on this thread with a policeman holding the guy by the scruff of the neck and another holding his arm.  When some people went to protest one wee guy was violently pulled by one rather hefty steward and pretty much thrown out of the stadium!!! 

STEWARDS  :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33:

[+jagster]

From what I saw last night the stewards were far worse than they were against Dunfermline.  It started, as said on this thread with a policeman holding the guy by the scruff of the neck and another holding his arm.  When some people went to protest one wee guy was violently pulled by one rather hefty steward and pretty much thrown out of the stadium!!! 

STEWARDS  :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33: :33:

should that be barstewards :023: :023: :rotflmao:

[SMEE]

Can I suggest. as this seems to be a regular occurence, and its 2007, you get your mobile phone cameras to film these matters the next time these power hungry, Little Hitlers wade in. Then at least you have an accurate record of events, should you wish to take it further.

[Scotty]

Im sure i heard or read not so long ago that new thinking was that standing at football could be less dangerous than sitting ? (dont know why) or maybe not a factor in safety.

There was a case being put forward to allowing standing sections at grounds again ? Anyone else remember this.

Yes there is a significant movement towards trying to make this happen. (http://www.standupsitdown.co.uk/) and while it may seem like a great idea to many (myself included), the simple fact of the matter is that currently it is not officially allowed. I don't know all the ins and outs of it but from what I can remember of the last conversation on this on a previous thread, the 'no standing' rule is just that, A RULE, it is not a law and therefore not punishable by law. However, that great cover-all charge of  "breach of the peace" is frequently used for enforcing such rules.

From the club point of view, they have to comply with this rule as it is an SPL rule and they can have sanctions taken against them for not following it. They can choose to turn a blind eye if they want but clubs have been officially warned that safety certificates may be withheld if they do that so they are in a no-win situation. I would like to see ICT try to put themselves forward to trial the use of a safe standing section (perhaps in the west stand) but until that happens they also have to do what they are told.

The bigger issue seems to be with the implementation by some of the stewards. If you get a jobsworth who insists on everything being 'just so' then you are on a loser. If you dont sit down when told, then you end up getting the IHE treatment or the treatment described from last night. If on the other hand you get a steward with common sense - and they do exist - then you might get a bit of leeway. I think the key is not to get too confrontational. If they tell you to sit down, then sit down (at least for a little while). It satiates their desire for power for a few minutes and you can then get away with another few minutes of standing a little later. If you get in their face or get confrontational then they are not going to lose. They are going to take great pleasure in having you hauled out and if you continue to be even the slightest bit belligerent, in having you charged with breach.

I would also echo what CaleyD said a few responses ago - if there is a charge pending or something still to come from last night then please take it off the boards and into the realms of private messaging. I would also say that SMEE's suggestion of filming via a mobile is a good one.

[RiG]

Thing is I don't think there has ever been anything saying people in the SS can stand up. If they get asked to sit they need to do so. When they don't things escalate and if you get a steward like the one last night then things just get worse as tensions rise.

I would prefer it if they could stand up but sadly it seems some stewards will tolerate it a wee bit while others just wade in seeking confrontation.

Perhaps this guy would be better employed at the next game against Rangers/Celtic/Aberdeen. Given that he is only too happy to fire into the crowd to get folk to sit down it sounds like he could be some use in the Away end.

[L_G]

, a bored stewerd came along to tell us all to sit down

this was not true if i remember rightly.  he came over and asked the lads behind me to come off the wall.  then he left with a smile on his face.  this was the same steward that told us all to sit down against rangers.  we were not bothered by anyone against united on saturday so this is a prime example of bad stewarding

I would have to say that there is quite a difference between asking people to sit down which is what this thread is all about and asking people to come off the wall, which clearly is dangerous.  Bad stewarding would have been to allow this and someone could have got hurt.

What followed is another story, but the steward had not intervened, or so it would seem, until the actions of a few went just across the line. 

This does not excuse any alleged man handling of fans which should be dealt with seperately.

[luvgravy]

I suppose now is not the time to talk about how I've yet to sit in my seat at a Toronto FC game.  We stand and sing/chant/cheer the full 90 mins + game in and game out.

That wouldn't be rubbing salt in the wounds would it?

[Guest TinCanFan]

I hope these stewards never have to steward at a Turkish, African or South American game because there would be no-one left at half time.

[NigeyBear]

The steward came over to tell a boy who was sitting on the back wall to get off as it was a health and safety hazard.  However, before he did this he stood at the front of the section while the majority were doing what you do to a keeper before he takes a goal kick (really can't think of a way to describe it!).  This obviously made an issue out of something that would not have happened had he just came over to tell the boy to get off the wall.  The stand then burst into a chorus of "If you hate the f***ing stewards clap your hands".  

  I was standing next to the boy who was first to be thrown out while singing this and the only reason i can imagine he was ejected was because he was looking and possibly pointing at the steward while singing this.  Either way surely the majority of the stand should have been ejected for this or the police could have just talked to the boy and gave him a warning.  

   The main thing is though, this would all have been avoided if the steward had immediately told a young lad to stop sitting on the back wall instead of standing at the front and aggravating a situation which should not have happened in the first place.

[+jagster]

I suppose now is not the time to talk about how I've yet to sit in my seat at a Toronto FC game.  We stand and sing/chant/cheet the full 90 mins + game in and game out.

That wouldn't be rubbing salt in the wounds would it?

is it by cheeting that you win your games

[RiG]

The steward came over to tell a boy who was sitting on the back wall to get off as it was a health and safety hazard.  However, before he did this he stood at the front of the section while the majority were doing what you do to a keeper before he takes a goal kick (really can't think of a way to describe it!).  This obviously made an issue out of something that would not have happened had he just came over to tell the boy to get off the wall.  The stand then burst into a chorus of "If you hate the f***ing stewards clap your hands".  

  I was standing next to the boy who was first to be thrown out while singing this and the only reason i can imagine he was ejected was because he was looking and possibly pointing at the steward while singing this.  Either way surely the majority of the stand should have been ejected for this or the police could have just talked to the boy and gave him a warning.  

   The main thing is though, this would all have been avoided if the steward had immediately told a young lad to stop sitting on the back wall instead of standing at the front and aggravating a situation which should not have happened in the first place.

From what you are saying I would imagine that he was standing down at the front asking the guy to come off the wall so he didn't have to walk up to him and through you lot in the process?

I would imagine also that the first person to be thrown out was because of the swearing in the song?

[luvgravy]

I suppose now is not the time to talk about how I've yet to sit in my seat at a Toronto FC game.  We stand and sing/chant/cheet the full 90 mins + game in and game out.

That wouldn't be rubbing salt in the wounds would it?

is it by cheeting that you win your games

If it is, we're doing a horrible job of that too....can't score, can't stop them on D, can't cheet either  :crazy07:

It's enough to drive you to buy another $13 beer at the game!  :015:

[Proctor]

I know I already posted what happened last night but I've had a good nights sleep (was up at half five yesterday morning with a six hour round trip to Aberdeen taking place that day).

The singin Section was roughly half full of fans, most of whom stood for most of the game.

A stewerdappeared approximatly 65 minutes into the game and stood at the front of the sand, I thought he was telling people to sit down. I may have been wrong, A section of the stand did chant derogatory chants at the stewerd, the police came and ejected somsone, a group of the tfans left in protest.  I may be wrong here but the same stewerd was exchanging banter with some people in the satnd, encouraging us to sing just before the end of the game.

This is my account of last nights events, I may be wrong and please correct me if I am.

I hope all you old timers on here don't think of those in the singing section last night as youbs, we were just enjoying the game we paid money to see the the winning ways of the team we love. We were not doing any harm, we were in a completly different section of the stadium to the family fans so any saucy chants would not ahve offended anyone. The stand was not even full so were not blocking anybodys veiw.If the stand was full of other people who paid money for their seat but did not wish to stand ad we were blocking their veiw then fair enough but I feel the stand should have just been left to it.

[Guest TinCanFan]

a group of the tfans left in protest.  

They did this whilst singing "We're going to have a protest, We're going to have a protest, NA NA NA NA"

And after that display by the stewards I'm suprised they didn't come in riot gear!