Sunderland ban fans for standing

[Caleyjag]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2253642/Sunderland-issue-warning-sign-fans-persistent-standing.html

Will this encourage other clubs to do the same?

[Alex MacLeod]

This action was taken because the fans concerned refused to abide by the rules and because complaint had been made. The FA also notified clubs at the beginning of the season that they were going to act if the clubs didn't. It does, however, open the debate for safe standing and maybe the German model could find its way into British football stadia.

[CaleyD]

Alex, we have hundreds of stadiums all over the country where safe standing takes place week after week.

 

What's more, unlike England where there's laws about allowing standing, the SPL stance on it is one of their own making...and could just as easily be one of their unmaking. It's not even in the SPL rulebook and would take nothing more than a decision by the SPL executives to get rid of the problem.

[lukemackay]

persistant standing?   farce

[Alex MacLeod]

Alex, we have hundreds of stadiums all over the country where safe standing takes place week after week.

 

What's more, unlike England where there's laws about allowing standing, the SPL stance on it is one of their own making...and could just as easily be one of their unmaking. It's not even in the SPL rulebook and would take nothing more than a decision by the SPL executives to get rid of the problem.

Yep I know all that. The problem is in persuading the powers that be to set a standard for standing. If EPL clubs are taking action against fans and / or being penalised by their association then maybe people will shout out more and others start to listen. The German model is just one option. Another is having barriers on every row of a standing area. The latter would probably be the cheaper option.

 

There has to be debate though. Safe standing for those that want it and safe seating for those who dont want their enjoyment spoiled by those standing.

[CaleyD]

The "German Model" will never see the light of day in Scotland as nobody could afford it....so even if we won the argument to make them permissible, it would never happen.  That's before you start looking at things like which stands are currently suitable for a retro-fit.....none of ours are.

 

It costs about 5 times more to supply and fit a barrier seat than it does a standard one.

 

There's not a single piece of law or legislation in Scotland which says "you must sit"...it's nothing more than an SPL directive.  Much the same as the requirement for all-seater stadia when the capacity is under 10,000.  The SPL could change the situation tomorrow if they so wished.

[Alex MacLeod]

But they wont Don. Not unless pressure could be put to bear. Remember these are the people who made the rules from mis-interpretation of the law and they aint about to admit that.

 

As to our stadium, we may not be able to alter the stands but we do still have low terracing that could be adapted to fit two or three hundred standing safely.

[CaleyD]

But they wont Don. Not unless pressure could be put to bear. Remember these are the people who made the rules from mis-interpretation of the law and they aint about to admit that.

 

As to our stadium, we may not be able to alter the stands but we do still have low terracing that could be adapted to fit two or three hundred standing safely.

 

You're totally missing the point.  Why should clubs have to go to the expense of meeting legislation that does not, and does not need to, exist?

 

Surely the argument is, quite simply, that you don't actually need to have a seat at all... never mind one that costs 5 times more and is not being put in so it can be used as a seat since people want to stand!!!

[old caley girl]

Having stood at a fair few SPL grounds when allowed I have to say I have never felt unsafe.

[+DoofersDad]

This all seater stadia farce is just symptomatic of the twisted values and priorities in modern society.  There is no commonsense in the corridors of power.  Sitting at football matches is just wrong.  It's like going to the bloody theatre where you sit in silence and then applaud at the end.  It destroys spontaneity and has killed the atmosphere in the game.

 

We all know the reason for it but it is like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  The Hillsborough tragedy was not caused by the standing areas per se.  It was caused by a variety of factors all of which are capable of being managed out of the system in order to prevent any repetitions.

 

Within the general design of an old fashioned standing terrace there is no reason why there can't be more crush barriers to reduce any surge, there is no reason why grounds can't be subject to inspection to ensure barriers remain fit for purpose, there is no reason why there cannot be systems to restrict the numbers allowed into any area (modern turnstile technology for example).  Actions can be taken to prevent fans trying to access grounds without tickets or trying to enter grounds when under the influence of drink or drugs.  Severe sanctions can be taken against clubs and police forces who fail to have proper management plans for dealing with crowds.  In other words, the lessons of Hillsborough and elsewhere where more minor incidents have occurred should be learnt and commonsense allowed to prevail.

 

 

 

 

[Rainbow]

Fully agree with DD. It was long known (internally) that the main reason for the Hillsborough tragedy was failure of stewards and police, as we (the common people) learnt in the last months. So all the action taken was nothing but a cover-up for this failure, as the police must always be seen as saints. So the football authorities should act on this new knowledge and change the rules to a sensible compromise.

One word on the German model: It's necessary for those clubs who want to play in Europe, because UEFA is even stricter with standing areas, and the only way to fill them is to change them into seats for international games. I've seen qualifying matches with sold out seats and empty areas behind both goals because they couldn't be fitted with seats for the game.

[Alex MacLeod]

 

But they wont Don. Not unless pressure could be put to bear. Remember these are the people who made the rules from mis-interpretation of the law and they aint about to admit that.

 

As to our stadium, we may not be able to alter the stands but we do still have low terracing that could be adapted to fit two or three hundred standing safely.

 

You're totally missing the point.  Why should clubs have to go to the expense of meeting legislation that does not, and does not need to, exist?

 

Surely the argument is, quite simply, that you don't actually need to have a seat at all... never mind one that costs 5 times more and is not being put in so it can be used as a seat since people want to stand!!!

 

They're not going to expense to meet legislation. They do, however, have to comply with the rules of their league in order to have a licence to play in that league. That is where the debate must take place. That is where the fans must lobby the rule makers and protest against the rules. Protest has never happened and until it does the same lawmakers will sit back and do nothing. Its all very well us debating on a forum but until action is taken to get the rules changed then we will continue to do nothing but debate.